2nd UTI in intact son - Page 2

[greenrosemom4]

My kids are very sensitive to soap. So all I ever do to my son is rinse him off in the shower and wipe it with a wet washcloth after a blowout. I've never retracted either, just wiped it off. The only time we've ever had a problem was the time my DH used soap in the bath.

[amydep]

I'm going to ditto what everyone else is saying here - DO NOT retract his foreskin!!! My son is 4 1/2 and I have never retracted his foreskin. The only "problem" he ever had was a year or so ago he had some pain when urinating. It ended up being the separation process and it was causing some stinging when he went. He has also had redness on his foreskin a few times, but I have found that A&D ointment clears it up in about a day or so. Please consider finding a foreskin-friendly urologist if his doctor mentions circumcision again.

Here is a quote out of What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Circumcision (great book - I highly recommend you purchasing it):
"Regardless of circumcision status, infants who present with their first UTI at 6 months or less are likely to have an underlying GU (genitourinary) abnormality. In the remaining patients with normal underlying anatomy and UTI we found as many circumcised infants as those who retained their foreskins." In other words, medical research has proven that UTIs are usually caused by internal congenital deformities of the urinary tract. Cutting off his foreskin is not going to correct this problem. Please buy this book!!! It will answer ALL of your questions!

I would ask the doctor about the possibility of a GU abnormality if this happens again. But...start with leaving his foreskin ALONE. No soap necessary. If he gets poop on it, wipe it with a warm wet washcloth. The harsh wipes and soaps are not good for him.

[amydep]

By the way....use the ORIGINAL A&D ointment for any diaper rash, not the zinc kind. The Original works much better.

[eepster]

As all the PPs have mentioned it sounds like you are washing too aggressively.

I'd like to add that it sounds like you have problemes with recurrent UTIs yourself. I would suspect the problem is genetic. How are you treating your UTIs? If it is working for you then that would be the most logical course of treatment for your DS.

Also what you describe sounds more like a yeast infection than a UTI. Has either UTI be confirmed? Have you tried an over the counter yeast treatment? Treating for bacteria can make yeast worse.

I also wanted to ask if he takes bubble baths? Bubble baths can also cause infection.

[pfeiff19]

What type of diapers/detergents/etc do you use? My dd had several UTI's w/in a few month period. Couldn't figure out WHAT was causing them...VCUG showed up clear, etc... We switched to cloth and NO problems since. If you're using cloth, perhaps it's the detergent?! {HUGS} to you and to him!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

#1 any dr that recommends circ for a UTI is not up to date on their research. There are no links between being intact and UTI. Only flawed studies.

#2 By pushing the foreskin back even a tiny bit you are making it possible for bacteria to get under there and cause problems. NO MORE PUSHING IT BACK EVEN A TINY BIT.

#3 Soap can cause UTI in woman and men because it kills off good bacteria. If you must use soap do so sparingly and make 100% sure you rinse him off with pure water.

[amydep]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

#1 any dr that recommends circ for a UTI is not up to date on their research. There are no links between being intact and UTI. Only flawed studies.

#2 By pushing the foreskin back even a tiny bit you are making it possible for bacteria to get under there and cause problems. NO MORE PUSHING IT BACK EVEN A TINY BIT.

#3 Soap can cause UTI in woman and men because it kills off good bacteria. If you must use soap do so sparingly and make 100% sure you rinse him off with pure water.

Yes to all above!!! And point #3...rinse under running water. Don't just wipe with a wet washcloth if you have used soap. Actually let running water flow over the foreskin to really rinse the soap off. You can use a large cup of water and pour it over your son while he is in his bathtub.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Please read the stickies at the top of the main CAC page. A Warning To Parents of Intact Sons and The Definition of Retraction & Why it is BAD!!!

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by Elisesmommy

Are you all saying I should just wash his penis like I would his finger and just wipe it with a washcloth and do not push, even slightly, his skin back?

There are no intact boys/men in my family and social network, so this is all so new! I'll read up on the links that were posted.

yes, that's the way to go.

The studies on UTI and circ are really awful - I've read them and they do things like compare forcibly retracted intact preemies to circumcised full-term babies. They also mostly ignore breasfeeding status. There is no strong evidence either way.

[Mommiska]

Hey - you'll always get lots of advice from everyone here at CAC! I hope you aren't feeling too overwhelmed...lots of very good advice from the previous posters.

When I was younger, I had TONS of UTIs - so many, in fact, that I was admitted to hospital for 'exploratory surgery' to see if I had some kind of structural abnormality.

I didn't - I was just very prone to UTIs as a young child. This was something I eventually outgrew - probably by around 8-9 years old, I think.

I do remember, though, that I was never allowed to use bubble bath, as that would always trigger another UTI. I know with my intact son, All I ever get him to do is swish his penis around in the bath (he's 4 years old now) - he's never had any problems. When he was an infant, I just wiped it down like a finger after big blow-out diapers, and that was it.

I would second (or third) the recommendation to get a new doctor. Or at the very least, tell your current doctor that (as someone else posted), he/she needs to treat your son in the same way he would treat a girl who presented with a second (or third) UTI.

Good luck...I hope you can get this cleared up sooner rather than later.

[myfairbabies]

Originally Posted by Mommiska

I was just very prone to UTIs as a young child. This was something I eventually outgrew - probably by around 8-9 years old, I think.

Me too, and I never had any parts cut off me. Please, do not listen to this doctor, he has no clue what he's talking about. I've heard of people circing their sons after many infections, to find that they don't go away at all, or even get worse. I hope you son gets better soon!

[momto3boys]

I dont even let the boys sit in the bath after I've washed their hair. They play in clear water to soak then I wash them with a wash cloth on their hair and face and then they exit immediately. I ABSOLUTELY can't even sit in a bubble bath without getting an irritated urethra.

if its any consolation my circ'd son would get UTI's. You know why? Soap and chlorine from the pool would irritate the tip of his penis at the meatus. He would cry when he peed because it stung so bad. He's 12 and still has to put diaper ointment on the tip before swim practice.

Just try a good soak, wash the bum with mild soap and rinse really well but always leave his penis alone. Just a rinse is all thats needed.

[mrsfrazier]

Any recommendations for me?

My son is in the same boat as the OP, on his second UTI by 4 mos, only he has never been even slightly retracted!

[Golden]

Have you (both the OP and MrsF) done any testing for kidney reflux? My son was born with mod/severe hydronephrosis (detected from way too many ultrasounds prenatally for something else). He did the voiding test- that's the one where they cath him to fill his bladder, take it out and take imaging of the void, right?

Have they done any other kidney tests? If he is refluxing, that is your answer. My son was on prophylatic abx for the first couple of months til all the testing was done. Although he has hydronephrosis, thankfully it was not refluxing back to the kidneys. And he's never had a UTI.

And even with his history, or should I say especially because of his history, I have never restracted his penis (even for the caths for testing, he wasn't retracted - I can give you more info on how they did this) nor used soap. He bathes on average 1-2x a week. When he was wearing cloth diapers, and then eventually disposable diapers, I always just used water with a tiny squirt of Dr Bronners soap as wipe solution and cloth wipes to wipe to clean off the poop.

Forgot to add: he's also been on probiotics since birth too...

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by mrsfrazier

Any recommendations for me?

My son is in the same boat as the OP, on his second UTI by 4 mos, only he has never been even slightly retracted!

These pop into my head:

1) Make sure you are really dealing with UTI (too many people have come here and told us that the UTI wasn't confirmed)

2) Eliminate soaps on the genitals

3) Probiotics (so many have had good results with these, hopefully someone will post about the right way to administer to a 4 month old)

4) testing for reflux, find the underlying cause

5) Possibly also diapers causing irritation or pesky bacteria still in them-- maybe strip diapers if you are using cloth

[2crazykids]

For both posters with UTI problems:

1. My son is intact and I never, ever washed the inside of his foreskin and he has never had an UTI. I have always used natural, organic soap and just washed around the penis never, ever going inside.

2. I would make sure he always ate lots of yogurt during the day so that he had lots of good bacteria going on in his body.

3. Cranberry(the all-natural kind with no added sugar or artificail sweeteners) juice mixed with a little apple juice may help with the UTI's w/out need for anti-biotics.

4. Look at your children's diet and see if they are getting too much sugar, which could lead to yeast and bad bacterial growth.

5. To the OP, I wonder if what you are smelling in the dipe is a yeast infection...those tend to smell pretty bad and if there's discharge that may indeed be the culprit.

6. If they are getting antibiotics for these "infections" it may only be exacerbating the underlying issues.

7. If yeast is suspected wash everything that touches babes in hot water with vinegar...it is so hard to kill. and start a flora regimen asap!

8. Finally: NO NEED TO CIRC!!! Your ped is using old, bad, outdated info if that is the scenario he/she is proposing! DO NOT LET YOUR CHILD BE CIRCED!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

In a child under a year who has 1 or more UTI the first thing that should be checked for is urinary reflux. It is a test called a VCUG were dye is put in via a cathiter and looked at to make sure that when the dye runes back out it dosnt "reflux" back into the kidneys. It is important to find this condition as early as possible to prevent kidney damage.

Most of the time kids with this will have to be on long term abx and they may or may not need surgery to correct it depending on how bad it is. The only caution here is make 100% sure that they do not retract at all to insert any caths.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by mrsfrazier

Any recommendations for me?

My son is in the same boat as the OP, on his second UTI by 4 mos, only he has never been even slightly retracted!

How were the UTI's diagnosed?

[Golden]

[QUOTE=MCatLvrMom2A&X;9640775]
It is a test called a VCUG were dye is put in via a cathiter and looked at to make QUOTE]

Oh yes, the VCUG! That's what I meant. Then there is the MAG3 that checks for kidney function - they inject something to watch the rate of filatration through the kidneys.

[mamaverdi]

Actually an u/s (ultrasound) should be done before a VCUG. If an obstruction is suspected (one must ask), then urology needs to be called for special catheters etc in order to do the VCUG.

My question for the OP is, why were the tests inconclusive? That sounds like you need a second opinion. Copies of the tests can be obtained from medical records on CD so that they can be taken to another ped urologist.

While many ped urologists still recommend circ for UTIs, many of the same lot are willing to work with you and NOT circ. Depending upon your area of the world, you may not have the option to see someone else (there may only be one ped uro), so knowing that if you adopt the surgeon attitude with them they are usually compliant with your wishes is helpful.

Also, it sounds like you consulted perhaps a regular uro instead of a ped uro. Ped uro is needed for cases of infant UTIs.