shame and embarassment in 14mo

[GradysMom]

My DS has been impulse biting us lately. When I ask him to show me he is sorry he gets really worked up and weird face andwrenches away from me. For my part I make a bit of a deal about the fact that he has hurt me. I want him to understand others can feel pain... and that appologies and kisses help us feel better most times.

About a week ago he hit me hard in the face and I let meself really cry in pain to demonstrate I was hurt... in my exhauted state I actually started bawling... I asked DS for a kiss which he refused... I asked for hugs and instead he acted like I was being mean to him... so trying to feel my way through this I eventually let up a bit - wiped my very genuine tears adn kept dialoging for a bit about how a hug or a kiss or any kind of sorry would help me feel better. Nothing really except resistence...

but a few minutes later he was all kinds of kisses and hugs after the moment passed.

Last night he bit daddy and daddy was mad, said ow... I suggested he say sorry to daddy and make it better. Well DH got a really sweet hug and a kis on the lips from ds.

So I think we are progressing with this concept but wondering about forcing appologies and why it feels like ds isn't into appologizing to me as much... because I force it? OR is it embarassment - like wow I hurt mom and it feels yucky and I want tihs situation to go away...

thoughts?

I see some progress and I have tried to lighten up the forcing an appology part... but he bit my nipple today right before I was abotu to nurse him... yuk... the only reason he got to bf is because the appology was pretty quick this time...

[EvansMomma]

Hmm I'm not sure.
I think 14 months is a little young to really EXPECT apologies sincerely and for the right reasons. Babies are pretty self-absorbed, their world is very much about them and how they are being affected. It's not a bad thing but I think it's a normal part of their development.

If he's apologizing, it's because HE is uncomfortable and not because he realizes that you're feeling badly. Does that make sense? And if that is the case, then is that a good reason to apologize?

I'm not down with forcing apologies though, so maybe I'm biased here. I would just want to be careful of how you make him think he's treating you. As in, you don't want him to internalize your feelings because for him that won't go away with the apology. He'll feel like he's deeply hurting you. Babies/toddlers internalize everythig, it's part of their "self-absorption". I think the last thing I want to teach my son is that he's "bad" or "naughty". He's just bein a kid, ya know?

When Evan hurts me, hits me, throws a toy at me - I remind myself first that he isn't being aggressive, and I do say "ouch!" but I don't make abig drawn out thing about making him apologize because even at 21 months, I think he still doesn't have a REAL sense of WHY I'm asking him to apologize.

And now, most times if I simply show that it hurt (when it legitimately hurt, I don't force myself to ACT hurt just to make him feel bad) he usually looks at me like "oh...did i do that?" and goes on his merry way, and that' sreally okay with me. I'm the one with the matured brain, and I know that he isn't being rude or aggressive or blatantly disrespectful.

Sorr I'm rambling, DH and I just had a talk about this a few days ago actually...lol

[LilyGrace]

You can't expect a 14mo to know that what hurts him hurts you. He has no concept of it. Give it nearly another year for it to be consistent.

Right now, you need to focus on giving him information he can use. "OUCH! THAT HURT!" gives him instant feedback for his actions. "Gentle touch" gives him a replacement.

[EvansMomma]

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

You can't expect a 14mo to know that what hurts him hurts you. He has no concept of it. Give it nearly another year for it to be consistent.

Right now, you need to focus on giving him information he can use. "OUCH! THAT HURT!" gives him instant feedback for his actions. "Gentle touch" gives him a replacement.

Funny story. We're doing this approach right now, replacing Evan's roughness with something a bit more acceptable. When we were teaching him to be gentle with the cat, we'd say gentle and at teh same time I'd take his hand and move it gently over the cat. It's working, and he's able to understand how to put the word gentle into action.

SO I figured I'd try the same thing for when he's a bit too rough with me or DH. He was in a smacking mood the other day, and I said "ouch, Evan", and I gently took his hand and just grazed it over my face and said "gentle, that feels nice"...a moment or two later I said gentle and he ever-so-sweetly ran his hand over my cheek and I thought "SUCCESS!" and just as the thought ran through my head he smacked it right out again - just hauled off and wacked me. Then went "awww mama" like "aww doesnt that feel nice?"

I guess he forgot gentle after a second...

It was funny because HE thought HE was being gentle...

[ktbug]

: An apology?

When my 14mo ds hits or bites us, and we act hurt, it's apparently the funniest thing he's ever seen. Nothing in the world makes him laugh harder than when Mommy is crying.

I pray to anyone who'll listen that it's just a phase.

[fek&fuzz]

I don't think anyone should be forced to apologize, or give hugs or kisses after hurting someone. That just feels creepy to me.

Especially a 14 mo. He's not doing it to be malicious. I would say ouch and move away and then move on.

[alegna]

Agreed- an apology is really kind of absurd at 14 months. I certainly wouldn't force it.

-Angela

[GradysMom]

Ok I hear you guys... let me add that I don't "think" I am forcing appologies but I am asking for a kiss and hug to "make it better". I get what you are saying...

Maybe dh and I need to talk about this a bit more too. ds seems to understand what we are asking for - but I guess maybe not that it is an "appology" or fully understanding that he hurt us.

I suppose what happened with the incident when I cried was that he was so up set because he was internalizing how upset I was.... and I was just exhausted and crying with a throbbing nose... live and learn!

thanks

[EvansMomma]

Originally Posted by GradysMom

Ok I hear you guys... let me add that I don't think I am forcing appologies but I am asking for a kiss and hug to "make it better". I I get what you are saying...

Maybe dh and I need to talk about this a bit more too. ds seems to understand what we are asking for - but I guess maybe not that it is an "appology" or fully understanding that he hurt us.

I suppose what happened with the incident when I cried was that he was so up set because he was internalizing how upset I was.... and I was just exhausted and crying with a throbing nose... live and learn!

thanks

But hey let me say this in addition to my first reply here...
I don't think that empathy is impossible in babies and toddlers.
When Evan was about 13 months or around there...I got a REALLY bad flu and could barely do more than sit on the sofa while he played. Anyway, he gave me a really funny look....then he toddled around the living room looking for things and came over to me - he put on my lap: his favourite blankie, his soother (paci), his favourite stuffed puppy dog, and then hugged my legs...then walked away and continued on with his playing.
I'm 100% sure that he knew that I needed comforting and he gave me all the things that comforts HIM. He's done it a few times since, to my Mom and to my DH.

So don't think he can't empathize yet. Just don't expect too much in the way of apologies, ya know?

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by GradysMom

Ok I hear you guys... let me add that I don't "think" I am forcing appologies but I am asking for a kiss and hug to "make it better". I get what you are saying...

Maybe dh and I need to talk about this a bit more too. ds seems to understand what we are asking for - but I guess maybe not that it is an "appology" or fully understanding that he hurt us.

I suppose what happened with the incident when I cried was that he was so up set because he was internalizing how upset I was.... and I was just exhausted and crying with a throbbing nose... live and learn!

thanks

No offense intended here, but I think you're WAY overthinking this. I would just downplay it when he hits you, firmly tell him "no hitting", and move on. I think, from my limited experience, your reaction is appropriate for a 2.5-3 yo. I would even go so far as to guess that what you are doing will result in more hitting as he experiments with your baffling and amusing reactions.

A fourteen month old has a very limited inkling that others don't have the same feelings as him, there have been many studies that proved this. But that definitely doesn't mean he won't someday be empathetic! He just doesn't even have the brain capacity for it yet. I'm becoming more and more of a believer in teaching children skills when they're ready for them, and then they can be successful.

[sleepymamaoftwo]

Fourteen months old is a little young to even understand apologies and that may be why he resists being forced to hug and kiss you to show you he is sorry. No one likes to be forced into anything and children tend to refuse when they feel forced to do anything. If you model empathy and kindness and only let him see empathy and kindness in the shows he watches he will develop empathy and kindness.