whining

[theirmomjayne]

7 and 8 yr old constantly whine when I ask them to do something...anything, unless it's something they WANT to do.

Schoolwork (we homeschool), minor chores, I can try to make things fun but sometimes it just needs to be done.

My husband thinks that as long as they DO it, I should ignore the whining. (We have about a 50% success rate in getting them to do anything.)

Help! :

[LilyGrace]

Depends on the nature of the whining. I have a few pat answers -

That's a problem. How are you going to fix it?

I see. You feel XYZ, right? Okay, got it. Now what? Yep, I already heard you feel XYZ, do you want me to write that down for you so I remember? Okay, now what? And the constant repetition of "Now what?" tends to get them to move past it.

Okay, PQR needs to be done. I'm open to suggestions on how to get it done.

There's also the notebook - a special place for my 8yo to write down how he feels, how mean and horrible I'm being, blah, blah, and me to write back. It gives us both time to get our heads adjusted a bit.

If it makes you feel any better, the whining does go away. Sometimes. *sigh*

[theirmomjayne]

Thanks.

I'm just feeling so overwhelmed today. :

[WuWei]

In our home, no one has to do anything they don't want to do. Whining seems to be a means of communicating that they don't want to do something, or don't like not getting to do something. We work to find solutions which work for both of us. So, whining would be an opening for discussion and negotiating a solution in which everyone agreed.


Pat

[sleepymamaoftwo]

I think your husband is right, if they are doing it then that is great especially since they seem to not think they need to do things half the time. Try to focus on thanking them for the task that has been completed rather than the attitude before the task as long as they don't use nasty language along with the whining.

[theirmomjayne]

Originally Posted by WuWei

In our home, no one has to do anything they don't want to do. Whining seems to be a means of communicating that they don't want to do something, or don't like not getting to do something. We work to find solutions which work for both of us. So, whining would be an opening for discussion and negotiating a solution in which everyone agreed.


Pat

So it's okay if they pull out all the books from the bookshelf and then refuse to pick them up?

It's okay to refuse to do schoolwork for days on end?

I'm just so frustrated.

[theirmomjayne]

Originally Posted by sleepymamaoftwo

I think your husband is right, if they are doing it then that is great especially since they seem to not think they need to do things half the time. Try to focus on thanking them for the task that has been completed rather than the attitude before the task as long as they don't use nasty language along with the whining.

Yeah, I can ignore stuff like "I hate you!" When the whining brings pencil-throwing, book-throwing tantrums....:

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by theirmomjayne

So it's okay if they pull out all the books from the bookshelf and then refuse to pick them up?

I found that our son pulls books off the shelf in order to see the cover on the book. He can't read the binding and discern which book is which. It is much easier to see the book by its cover.

It's okay to refuse to do schoolwork for days on end?

Well, we radically unschool; so I can't speak to that.

I'm just so frustrated.

I find that my frustration threshold is directly related to how much self-care I am needing. When can you count on having some down time, to relax, refresh and rejuvenate? I have planned time off on Tuesday evenings, a date night with dh on Wednesday evenings, and ds has "Daddy Day" with dh on Saturday while I run errands. And then dh and ds run errands or have fun for a few hours on Sunday while I have time at home alone. I try to plan meals a month at a time and freeze them and then pull them out, instead of trying to plan something at the end of the day. My sister is the only childcare resource (Wed. date night), but we've had mother's helpers come a couple times a week during the late afternoon to give me a break, when dh travels or has to work late. That is the best $10 for 2 hours that we spend!

I also have a set "bedtime" for myself, but ds can stay up later in his room, if he desires. Finding ways to get my needs for sleep, and "me" time, and household chores done, really affects my ability to negotiate and pick up around the house. Ds doesn't have "chores" assigned, but he helps out around the house willingly, when he is interested. There is no compulsion and he has fun helping.

Are there specific issues which are causing frustration? Perhaps, we could help trouble shoot and brainstorm for alternative ways to approach them so that it isn't as exasperating.

Pat

[theirmomjayne]

I'm frustrated that they just don't seem to care. I can understand pulling a book or two out of the bookshelf to look at it. But pulling all the books down just for FUN? And not picking them up? That's what I dealt with.

Pulling out all the Legos, and then being "too tired" to clean them up.

Throwing a wet pull-up underneath the bed instead of bringing it downstairs to the trash. (This is my seven year old!)

Coloring with crayons/markers...using oodles of paper...and again "too tired" to clean up.

Refusing to do schoolwork. How does radical unschooling work? Do you just let them do work that/when they want to?

My husband does let me get time to myself when I need to!

[MommyHawk]

My DS is only 4, so I'm in the beginning stages of the 'whining stage' (dear God...does it really go on this long?!!?!) But if it's his books and he doesn't treat them with respect, they fall apart, so there is a natural consequence to that. If they are school books, then they are kind of my books, since I use them to teach him (we HS) so then he is not respecting my property. What should be the natural consequence for that? What would you do if it were any other person doing that? When I get frustrated, overwhelmed, and about to explode, I have to step back and remind myself that I CAN do that since I feel so comfortable with my DS...so I have to ask myself what would I do if that were just anyone doing what he is doing? If some adult was whining at me because I asked them to move out of the way so I could pass by, I would stare at them like they were crazy! Sometimes if I respond to my DS like I would a total stranger, he sees just how silly his action is.

On the other hand maybe this won't work for you. I'm just lurking here to see if I can't find something that'll work in our situation...

[theirmomjayne]

bump

[Magella]

I'm going to suggest Anthony Wolf's The Secret of Parenting. He recommends ignoring the whining (he thinks it's just an attempt to continue getting you to discuss a situation, or to gain attention--prolonging the whole interaction that isn't working), stating your expectation, and just expectantly (and calmly) standing there waiting for it to be done (as if you were waiting for the bus). I have found that this does work, though I reserve it for only a few circumstances. Someone around here might have a better explanation for it.

I do usually ignore whining (not the kid, just the whining). I find that bringing up how I don't like to hear the whining tends to just escalate things. Same with backtalk. Occasionally I may remind them that I don't like to be spoken to that way, that I want to be spoken to respectfully/calmly. But they do already know that. And I find that it helps to really monitor how I'm speaking to them, so that I'm really modeling what I'd like to hear/see from them.

As far as most chores in our home go, most of the time our attitude is "we expect you to help, how you help can be your choice." And then we do give lots of positive feedback and expressions of our genuine appreciation. Setting aside a certain time of day for regular chores helps too--there are chores at breakfast time, chores before dinner. If it's just built into the routine, they're more likely to do it without resistance. And getting creative helps. So maybe I really don't urgently need that window washed, but hey, it is cleaning up and helping so I'll take that instead of whatever chore I had planned. Maybe they don't mop as well as I can, but hey, it gets the big sticky spots off the floor so I'll take it. We have a list of available chores to choose from.

[theirmomjayne]

Thanks for your response.

So what if they just DON'T pick up the Legos that they dumped? Do you just end up doing it yourself?

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by theirmomjayne

Thanks for your response.

So what if they just DON'T pick up the Legos that they dumped? Do you just end up doing it yourself?

I give the gift of a clean canvas and model working together to clean.

Here is a thread with several of my posts about creating a clean canvas as a gift. By focusing on what we want, rather than what we don't want, we create the joy in cleaning even.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...as#post4525544
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...as#post4483658

It has been so rewarding to realize that I choose to clean for myself.


Pat

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by theirmomjayne

Throwing a wet pull-up underneath the bed instead of bringing it downstairs to the trash. (This is my seven year old!)

Could you place a trash can upstairs? We have one is ds's room, each bathroom, our bedroom, the playroom, the kitchen, the laundry room, the garage.

Coloring with crayons/markers...using oodles of paper...and again "too tired" to clean up.

Are they playing independently, or did you provide the stack of paper? When ds wants to do drawing/crafts, he asks for my help. I pull out several pieces of (preferred colors of) construction paper, but they are stored within reach. I just am there actively facilitating.

Refusing to do schoolwork. How does radical unschooling work? Do you just let them do work that/when they want to?

Essentially; although radical unschooling is engaged, active facilitation as a partner, helping them to explore their passions and interests. RU is self-directed learning as a byproduct of living a rich life exploring the world, not "teaching".

My husband does let me get time to myself when I need to!

I found that planning for time helps me more than waiting until I "need" it.

HTH, Pat

[theirmomjayne]

No, I specifically want him to bring the pull-up downstairs because that trash is taken out daily. The upstairs wastecans are not emptied daily, and the upstairs will reek of pee. This is a simple thing that I know he is capable of doing.

Occasionally, I provide the paper. Occasionally, dh does. When your ds refuses to clean up, what do you do?

I meant that he lets me plan it if I need to. I am a housefly and don't need a lot of time away.

[theirmomjayne]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I give the gift of a clean canvas and model working together to clean.

Here is a thread with several of my posts about creating a clean canvas as a gift. By focusing on what we want, rather than what we don't want, we create the joy in cleaning even.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...as#post4525544
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...as#post4483658

It has been so rewarding to realize that I choose to clean for myself.


Pat

I will read those ASAP.

[theirmomjayne]

My back hurts so bad. This happens only 3-4 times per year, but when it happens, I am out of commission. It will probably be better tomorrow, but now I cannot do anything. I was able to fix a simple dinner, but that's it. I am disappointed that the boys will not help me clean up the table (put the dishes in the sink.) I sat them down and told them that mommy's back hurts so much and I need their cooperation. They just don't care. :

I'm so glad I have a patient husband. He knows about my back today and knows the boys are not helping me (I left him a note.)

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by theirmomjayne

No, I specifically want him to bring the pull-up downstairs because that trash is taken out daily. The upstairs wastecans are not emptied daily, and the upstairs will reek of pee. This is a simple thing that I know he is capable of doing.

Is the 7 year old using the pull up, or is the 7 year old responsible for the diaper of another child? If the 7 year old is still using a pull up, is there a developmental delay that interferes with him remembering to do that type of forethought/planning with a soiled diaper? Could you have a diaper pail upstairs? We had a diaper pail in the bathroom upstairs and in ds's bedroom until he was toileting consistently. If you are expecting him to provide for the child care needs of a younger sibling, I believe that is your responsibility, not his.

Occasionally, I provide the paper. Occasionally, dh does. When your ds refuses to clean up, what do you do?

I believe that if *I* want something clean, I am happy to make it clean.

Pat

[theirmomjayne]

Originally Posted by WuWei

I give the gift of a clean canvas and model working together to clean.

Here is a thread with several of my posts about creating a clean canvas as a gift. By focusing on what we want, rather than what we don't want, we create the joy in cleaning even.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...as#post4525544
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...as#post4483658

It has been so rewarding to realize that I choose to clean for myself.


Pat

Question:
While I can understand the need to "clean for myself," what if the little ones just don't WANT to pick up after themselves? Are you saying it would be acceptable for us parents to always be the ones to do the picking up?

Seems like your son has learned some responsibility and I think that's great. Right now, my kids just don't care, and it is frustrating. Esp. today when my back is out and I cannot do anything. My 3 yr old just pooped his pants, and I'm gonna have a tough enough time "convincing" him to let me change him and put him to bed, since I'm physically unable to "make him."