I dug myself a hole

[Sylith]

For the last year or so, I've really struggled with my own temper in disciplining DS1. Partly because 4 has been a tough age for him, partly because we added DS2 to our family, partly because of the way I was brought up by my own parents... anyway, when DS1 melts down out of anger and frustration, I have to really fight my tendancy to mirror his intensity with my own. I'm working on it, but sometimes in the moment I screw up.

Like this morning. DS1 was sorting through his Halloween candy in the middle of the kitchen floor (not eating any, just gloating over his hoard.) DS2, naturally, wanted in on the action -- he's a toddler, if you put a bunch of enticing brightly colored things on the floor he will touch them. I got DS2 his own little stash of Halloween loot, but of course he still wanted to touch DS1's stuff. DS1 started to freak out. I suggested we move DS1's candy onto the kitchen table to keep DS2 out of it, but DS1 was already locked into his meltdown and wouldn't/couldn't listen to me. So I decided we needed to put all of it away for now, since it was causing such a problem.

Up until this point, I think I handled things fine. But DS1 totally lost control when I started putting the candy away, and he hauled off and hit me. And then I got really mad, and I grabbed his wrists and yelled and threw his Halloween loot in the trash.

Obviously he needs to hear that I'm sorry for losing my cool, and that it was wrong for me to put my hands on him in anger and yell at him. But, those things were not as upsetting to him as the Halloween candy, and I feel uncertain how to proceed with that.

1) I feel bad about throwing the Halloween candy away. I am not sure if I feel bad because of my intent (I did it basically to hurt him, yk?) or whether the act itself was out of line (do I have the right to throw away candy which does, after all, belong to him?)

2) It was contained in its own bag and there's nothing gross in the trash, so I could, if I chose, take the candy out of the trash and give it back. Would that be a constructive thing to do, or just make me a liar?

3) In our house, the night of Nov 3rd -- tonight -- is the night the Candy Fairy comes. He takes your extra Halloween candy and leaves a surprise in its place. DS2 still has his Halloween loot, but he's too young to understand anyway. DS1, on the other hand, was looking forward to leaving the candy out for the Candy Fairy. I have no idea how to handle that now.

Ugh, I hope somebody will help me see the best way to clean up my mess. If you want to say something harsh, I am OK with hearing it as long as there's some constructive value to it. I want to do right by him.

[alegna]

I think both the intent and the act were out of line. But you realized that. It's really hard when they push our buttons.

I would get the candy out of the trash and apologize. Talk about how angry you felt. Talk about how you made a bad choice and are choosing to make it better.

-Angela

[lovemyfamily6]

I've been saying it a lot lately, but four is SO HARD!!!! I've done something similar before, only with toys. As I was bagging up all the toys, I was aware that it wasn't a good way to handle it, but I did it anyway. (which later made me think about how if it's hard for *me* the "rational adult" to not do something I know I shouldn't, obviously it would be hard for little ones) I calmed down and then went to my boys (twins had just turned 4, older was 5) and told them that I was very sorry for the way that I behaved with them. I explained that I lost my temper and didn't handle things well. Then I suggested ways I could have handled it better (just like I brainstorm with them about ways to handle their own challenges) and ended with a hug and a sincere "I love you so much".

[mamaduck]

Take the candy out of the trash, give it back, and apologize for loosing your temper.

Even when we make mistakes, parents have the opportunity to teach important skills by modeling kind and appropriate ways of taking responsiblity for those mistakes.

[LynnS6]

Forgive yourself.

Then, take the loot out of the trash.

Apologize to your son and say "I over reacted. I was really angry and I threw your candy away. After I calmed down, I realized that wasn't fair. So, I took your candy out of the trash. I put it up on the table so your little brother can't get it."

Your son will learn more from you apology than almost anything else you do. And the candy fairy can still come.

[abac]

Give the candy back and apologize, then forgive yourself and move on.

It sounds to me like your older ds got the short end of the stick if he is expected to move his candy because younger ds was captivated by it. Could you distract younger ds with something else in the future, rather than expecting older ds to move when he is already set up enjoying an activity?

[Sylith]

Thanks mamas.

It is hard to parent well when it seems like your first reactions are all wrong. I thought I did pretty well for the first 3-4 years, but since then I feel lost at sea a lot of the time, no matter how many books I read.

I did rescue the bag of candy and give it back to him. We talked some, and the rest of the day went better. I have to apologise to him a lot, he knows the script :

Do you really think it's unfair to expect DS1 to move his things off the floor if he doesn't want the baby touching them? DS2 is 16 months, extremely active and curious, and wants to do everything his big brother does. I've been telling DS1 for months that if he's playing with something in the middle of the floor or another space easily accessible to his little brother, he needs to be okay with DS2 joining his play. If DS1 doesn't want the Toddler Tornado to mess up his play, I've generally told him he needs to move it into another space, either on the table or into his room with the door shut, or something comparable. I've been willing to facilitate helping DS2 to play appropriately, or to help DS1 move.

I mean, I would never in a hundred years start some project in the middle of the floor if I didn't want DS2 to be all over it. I'm surprised at the suggestion this isn't a fair thing to ask of DS1, but I'd like some more input.

[mamaduck]

I don't know if its fair or not, but it is most certainly realistic and reasonable! "Fair" is often beside the point when you are dealing with more than one child.

We had the same rule when my kids were that age. Indeed, the same sorts of rules apply if the kids don't want our pets messing with their games and activities.

That said, if you can predict that a request will set off an explosive or dramatic episode, you can soften your requests to give him more power. For instance, you could say, "Its too difficult to try to keep the baby out of your stuff right now. Can you think of a way to solve this problem?" If he comes up with moving to the table all on his own, then the process will go much more smoothly.

Of course, we can't always predict an outburst, and we can't walk on egg shells around our own kids all the time. If a simple requests triggers a tantrum, you should not hold yourself responsible. It happens!!

[alegna]

Fair? Absolutely. Always gonna happen? Not so much

-Angela

[mamahart]

good job mama...however when your son hit you I think there needed to be a consequence, and I think it is completely reasonable to move your older son to a place where he in not available for toddler destruction. I don't really think that dumping the candy was that bad.
I would have let the candy in the trash be a lesson that when we physically hurt each other it is hard to stay calm....and then I would give him a NEW stash to leave for the very cool candy fairy, with lots of positve feedback about how we all make mistakes and all suffer the consequences. I am surprised the mothers all thought you should pull the candy out. I do not hit my children and I do not want them to hit me. My DS is 2 and he gets a lot of slack but at 4 I expect a little more, and if we lose it, as we do, then there will be some sort of repercussions...hopefully rather mild. Losing your candy is OK sometimes....:

[hempmama]

I think whether it is fair or not to expect him to move to the table depends on your kid and when in the interaction you asked. I was reading along, putting my own DD in that situation (she has a toddler younger brother, too), and at some points she would have been amenable, and at some points, even asking her to help with a solution would have come up with something like "lock DS in the backyard with no dinner!"

What we do, for what it's worth, when somebody wants to play with something by themselves, they have to go upstairs to their own room. We have used this solution often enough that it's easier to accept than a new "go to the table" idea would be, in a challenging situation. If it's downstairs in our house, it's communal. It works for us in part because DD has time every day while DS naps to make big, elaborate games by herself, and she's also old enough not to really get into DS's creations. I imagine when he drops the nap we'll have to renegotiate, a little.

Balancing 2 is really, really hard. I think it's brave and awesome of you to have apologized. I hope the next time I slip up I can collect myself and fix it so quickly.

[swampangel]

Originally Posted by mamahart

good job mama...however when your son hit you I think there needed to be a consequence, and I think it is completely reasonable to move your older son to a place where he in not available for toddler destruction. I don't really think that dumping the candy was that bad.

I mostly agree with you here, mamahart, and am also quite surprised that most posts didn't acknowledge that your ds hit you. This is a big deal and what I would have talked about with ds as well as apologizing for my own part.

And let me say that when you compare your own rageful emotions with those of your children, it's not an equal comparison. Children can really draw out a rage that no one else can. I'm not saying it's malicious or intentional, it simply is. So don't be too hard on yourself about that. I never had an anger "problem" until my kiddo reached age 4!

Originally Posted by hempmama

Balancing 2 is really, really hard. I think it's brave and awesome of you to have apologized. I hope the next time I slip up I can collect myself and fix it so quickly.

Amen! This is so true and I think it was very cool of you to apologize and recognize where you went wrong so quickly. And I guess I wouldn't even categorize it as "wrong"...it's simply human. When someone strikes you, you react. That is a good lesson for your child to learn. I think when we try to act in some idealized way, we really do a disservice to our children. Your son needs to learn that he can tell you with is words that he's mad at you or that he doesn't want you to move his candy. If you can reinforce that talking works by listening to him and valuing his input, he will be able to see the value in it. I really don't think you did anything particularly wrong. When my ds disrespects me or hits me, I'm going to have a reaction. I don't think I'm doing him any favors by acting otherwise.

Having said all of that, I think pulling the candy out was a good idea. But I would talk with him about it and especially pointing out that hitting isn't acceptable.

[chfriend]

Didn't the hitting happen after the candy was removed?

In sibling moments like this, I try really really hard not to escalate the situation since everyone is already feeling pretty put out. Taking the candy would have escalated it here.

I'm glad you were able to apologize and move on.

For me, when they were even littler than they are now, I focused on keeping the the baby out of the little kid's stuff. I sometime put my body between them as a "line of control." It's really hard on the somewhat older one when the baby gets mobile, 'cause they can get around, but don't know any social rules...like don't touch another kid's Hallow'n candy!

Maybe instead of making a lot of rules for the somewhat older one to follow, you can focus your energy on keeping the baby from wrecking his stuff. And de-escalating when tension flare.

Mine had an easier time when the baby got old enough to actually play sometimes.

[monkey's mom]

Originally Posted by Sylith

Do you really think it's unfair to expect DS1 to move his things off the floor if he doesn't want the baby touching them?

It's not so much fair or unfair to me. I try to remember that when we brought the second baby into the family we basically turned the elder's world upside down, and sometimes it's just nice to be able to mitigate that "intrusion," you know?

It might be like your husband bringing home a new pet you weren't really crazy about, but you consented to b/c it obviously seemed so important to him. How might you feel if your husband was disrupting your project to accomodate the pet? It's not that it's "unfair," per se, it's just kind of crummy feeling--like the pet was more important. That's how I try to look at it, anyway.

In any event, I'm so glad you were able to apologize and give him his candy back! I know I've lost it way worse than that, and I always feel so much better when I can apologize and talk it out.

[rmzbm]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

Forgive yourself.

Then, take the loot out of the trash.

Apologize to your son and say "I over reacted. I was really angry and I threw your candy away. After I calmed down, I realized that wasn't fair. So, I took your candy out of the trash. I put it up on the table so your little brother can't get it."

Your son will learn more from you apology than almost anything else you do. And the candy fairy can still come.

: That's exactely what I would do.