Help! What to do about young children verbally winding each other up?!

[Mommiska]

I really am at my wit's end with this, and would love any ideas.

My almost 4 year old LOVES to wind her sister up verbally. She'll tell dd2 (just turned 2 years old) that she is 'small', or that she has to play the 'baby' (or the Prince, etc - essentially the non-desirable parts when they are 'pretend playing' together), or just about anything else that she knows will upset dd2.

And dd2 predictably will start crying, etc. when she says she isn't small (or doesn't want to play the baby, etc.) and dd1 just repeats what she'd said in the first place to cause all the trouble.

DD1's favourite thing, when dd2 starts crying, is to say to her, 'DD2 - just tell me I'm funny!' DD2, of course, is too worked up by this point to do that.

I've been telling dd1 that it is unkind to keep saying things that she knows are upsetting dd2, and I would appreciate it if she would stop and be kind to her sister instead.

This falls on deaf ears.

I then comfort dd2. I try (when she's calm again) to coach her in telling her sister that she doesn't like to be talked to that way/etc. but she's only 2, you know? Sometimes she can be assertive with dd1 - but dd1 generally just ignores her and keeps on with the verbal winding up - so dd2 can end up in tears again.

Anyone - help? Ideas? At the moment, I think I'm going to start removing dd1 from the situation and telling her that she can come back when she can talk to her sister kindly. Good idea? Bad idea?

Please help!

[candiland]

I think that's a great idea.
My DD is three and a half, and my DS is almost 15 months. This morning, she had a big, red rubber ball and was tossing it, and when DS went after it, she'd run faster, get there first, pick the ball up again, throw it... then outrun him, grab the ball before him, throw it again.....: He was screaming, slamming his hands together, trying to bite her....: Finally I took her up onto my lap, and when she stopped screaming and squirming, I explained that we do not disrespect other people in our house. If she wanted to continue playing with the ball, she would have to show her brother what it meant to share and act kindly. Otherwise, I would take the ball and they would have to find something else to do. It worked, for a short while, at least. Then I redirected their games to something a bit less competitive... play dough.

[Paper Dragon]

If removing dd1 doesn't work, you could try deffusing the situation with humor, like telling dd2 "No, you can't be the baby...I'm the baby!!!" and then roll all over the floor talking baby gibberish until they are both laughing. I might also try making a rule that each child gets to decide what part they play for themselves-no dictating parts allowed. If they each choose to be "Mommy" than the play has two mommies.

[Mommiska]

Thanks for the ideas. I'll definitely start removing dd1 from the situation and see if that helps any.

I've tried threatening to take away any offending objects, but dd1 just says to take them away - which unfairly penalizes dd2, you know?

They both have been told that they can be whatever they want to be when they are pretending (I'm always suggesting two mommies!), but that doesn't stop dd1 from insisting that dd2 has to be the baby (or whatever).

I can totally understand why dd2 gets so frustrated.

Unfortunately, my dad says that I'll be dealing with this particular problem for a long time to come!

[untomySelf]

I would remove dd2 quietly, without judgement and talk with her about what dd1 is saying but give dd1 no direct attention.
So dd2 is "protected" and both get to hear how you model this kind of teasing.

Does she go to daycare or school? (I only ask bc this is learned behavior "out there")

HTH

[Mommiska]

She does go to nursery - one day a week over the summer (when I'm at work), but has a funded place during the school year here in the UK, so goes three days (or she's signed up for three days - if she doesn't want to go, she doesn't have to...generally she does go all three days).

I know that a couple of the girls at the nursery (who are slightly older than dd1, but with whom she generally plays all the time) do tell her that she is small, so she has to be the baby (dd1 is small for her age), so maybe this is coming from that? It does make sense...

I've often wondered how to tell dd1 to handle the girls at the nursery (sigh). I don't want her to respond to them in an unkind way at all, but often telling other small children that you don't like what they are doing, only makes them do it more, you know?

I'm sure this is where dd1 is getting it, come to think about it. I feel a bit dense for not making the connection earlier.

[geekmom]

Another thing I do is to comment on the behavior to the child who is doing the winding up, or both if both children are driving each other crazy. I will say, "hmmm, seems like you're saying things to make your brother/sister sad/mad/frustrated whatever. What are you trying to do? Are you bored? Can you think of a game that's more fun for BOTH of you?" For my big kids (5 and 6) when they work to drive each other into a frenzy I comment on how they seem to be really tryign to make the other one crazy and I say that if you're ready to stop maybe you can find a way to be respectful of each other instead of hurtful.

If the 2 kids are unmatched and 1 clearly has more power over the other (as in 5 year old, 2 year old) I tell the 5 year old that all games have to be fun for BOTH people involved or it will be stopped. If it's the 5 year old and 6 year old (very well matched) going at each other I tell them it's their decision when to stop.

They don't necessarily stop their behavior right away, but they do get to think about it and try something different the next time.

[Mommiska]

Thanks Aileen - I'll try that. I really do appreciate all of these suggestions, as I am completley out of ideas.

When you say that the game MUST stop (I do think my two are unevenly matched, even though they are only 19 months apart, since the little one only just turned 2), do you remove the older one from the situation?

[geekmom]

I just stand in the middle until they decide to play another game. I don't usually have to remove anyone as I'm right there and will often just suggest a game that would be fun for both. I just sort of tower over them menacingly (okay my kids would just laugh if I could even pull off menacingly), but I just make it clear that I'm not going anywhere until I hear happy sounds from all involved.

If removing your older dd actually works then I would try that as I consider that gentle, but for my kids it just doesn't seem to make any difference. My whole goal is to try to teach them what I want them to do, not just what I don't want them to do. I find that the winding each other up is often boredom and seems liek the easiest thing to do for the older child. Help them find something better and help them find a way to get joy out of others being happy.