ADHD and unconditional parenting - Page 2

[gaialice]

Natensarah, you're right, it is impossible to phrase "good job sitting still for 10 minutes for dinner!" in a way that is non-judgemental. It also feels this is just so little to ask that a reward is totally absurd. However, after reading that list I posted about, I came to see that sitting still may be not a lot to ask of other kids but it is a lot to ask of mine. So, what I am getting to is thinking in my head "Thanks. I appreciate that you are making an effort to sit still so that we could all enjoy dinner". Thinking this however changes my attitude. I do not have to say this really, certainly not every night. All she wants is for me to write a nice smiling face on her little book afterwards and she is content with sitting still. She also needs me, as was said in the list, to constantly give her approval (smiles, holding hand, nodding) throughout dinner to keep her "on task". It is strange. I am thinking that playful parenting (which is the only way other than praise to make dd2 do something she will not do spontaneously) makes ME feel proud, that we got to do something without fussing. But does that make HER feel proud? I am not sure... Also, to just let be that she will not do something, without harbouring any resentment, is not realistic. She knows I am disappointed that she did not help pick up the puzzle pieces... it cannot make her feel good about herself, even if I do not go on and on about it...

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by gaialice

Natensarah, you're right, it is impossible to phrase "good job sitting still for 10 minutes for dinner!" in a way that is non-judgemental. It also feels this is just so little to ask that a reward is totally absurd. However, after reading that list I posted about, I came to see that sitting still may be not a lot to ask of other kids but it is a lot to ask of mine. So, what I am getting to is thinking in my head "Thanks. I appreciate that you are making an effort to sit still so that we could all enjoy dinner". Thinking this however changes my attitude. I do not have to say this really, certainly not every night. All she wants is for me to write a nice smiling face on her little book afterwards and she is content with sitting still. She also needs me, as was said in the list, to constantly give her approval (smiles, holding hand, nodding) throughout dinner to keep her "on task". It is strange. I am thinking that playful parenting (which is the only way other than praise to make dd2 do something she will not do spontaneously) makes ME feel proud, that we got to do something without fussing. But does that make HER feel proud? I am not sure... Also, to just let be that she will not do something, without harbouring any resentment, is not realistic. She knows I am disappointed that she did not help pick up the puzzle pieces... it cannot make her feel good about herself, even if I do not go on and on about it...

ITA with this. Kids do pick up on this stuff. This has always been my argument for teaching kids manners, because I think other adults expect them to have them. So even if it is disingenuine, and they aren't TRULY grateful, they say thank you and get a positive response from people, thus reaffirming that they are valuable. If, instead, every time the go out in the world people react to them like they're little brats, I think children would be deterred from interacting with adults and not understand the reaction.

But is it better to manipulate them into behaving the way we want so that we don't have to be disappointed in them, or is it better to reframe our expectations so that we will be able to avoid disappointment? I don't mean that we shouldn't let go of our expectation that they pick up puzzle pieces or sit politely at dinner. I mean that we might be better served trying to assume that they're doing the best that they can, that if we keep persisting they will eventually develop these skills, and that when they do not perform as we want it does not mean that we should lose hope or be disappointed, just that they're still learning. Easier said than done, right?

[Magella]

Originally Posted by natensarah

But is it better to manipulate them into behaving the way we want so that we don't have to be disappointed in them, or is it better to reframe our expectations so that we will be able to avoid disappointment? I don't mean that we shouldn't let go of our expectation that they pick up puzzle pieces or sit politely at dinner. I mean that we might be better served trying to assume that they're doing the best that they can, that if we keep persisting they will eventually develop these skills, and that when they do not perform as we want it does not mean that we should lose hope or be disappointed, just that they're still learning. Easier said than done, right?

ITA with this. It's much easier said than done, but so important IME.

And gaialice, what about saying, when you child is sitting nicely at dinner, "I'm really enjoying this dinner with you. It's so nice to sit together and eat, I like your company." Or something like that. We do this a lot, just genuinely enjoying eating a meal together and talking about how nice it is. Sometimes it helps to point out how good it feels when things are going well. I think that's very different from "good job sitting still at dinner."

Also, and this is way off your topic and not what you asked about, but one of mine has a hard time just sitting still in her chair at meals. She's wiggly, she's standing, she's spilling stuff, getting hyper (most of the time we're still enjoying the meal together, but lately there have been many wild, loud, crazy meals). We recently bought a little chair she can sit on that goes right on the dining chair, it hugs her a little and feels good, and suddenly she's sitting still through an entire meal. Some kids sit better with something to put their feet on, some kids like these little inflatable discs that give them some sensory input/stimulation while they sit, some kids sit better with weighted pads on their laps.

[AngelBee]

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[hippymomma69]

Originally Posted by gaialice

How did you get her to do chores in the first place? Did you start with rewards and tapered off?

Well she's only 4 so her "chores" are still pretty light - but basically I've tried to identify things she's interested in (helping to feed the dogs for example - or filling everyone's water cup) to have her help. Right now she is into spray bottles so my windows are extra clean.

Also, most of the praise I give her is sort of "now you're big enough to do this chore!" - So I kind of say things like "you did it all by yourself! thank you! that is a BIG help!" sort of stuff...she just eats that up! But it's all verbal praise - no physical rewards or stickers. But I can see where having a visual cue might be helpful for her and give her a sense of accomplishment. I might make some "chore" cards that we can hang up and move from the "to do" board over to the "done" board...hmmm now I'm getting ideas....but I digress.

There are some things that I will ask her to do (please put your bowl in the sink) that she is not really interested in doing - but she will do it when she is in a good mood just because I asked. (If she is in a bad mood or not cooperative, I will usually let it pass and maybe ask again later when I know she is feeling better). And there are other things, like cleaning her room, that she will only help if I make a very specific request (please put your toy in the closet) - otherwise she will get too overwhelmed with the request.

I'm not really sure why it works, but she just seems to like to be helpful - and I've always assumed all kids are that way - that they all like to help out. So maybe it's my expectation that she is sensing and responding to....maybe that is a time limited thing because soon enough she won't fall for the old "now you're a big kid' thing anymore - then I'll have to change tactics! LOL

I don't know if that helps or not....

good luck!
peace,
robyn

[mamaduck]

I am currently working an environment where behavior modification through the use of rewards is a hard and fast foundation to their system. It is very hard for me, to say the least!

One thing I have noticed though, is that the tracking aspect of the system is more helpful to the kids with ADHD than the reward aspect of it. Carrying a points sheet, with specific feedback spelled out in a measurable form helps them to be self-aware and stay on task.

I honestly think we could drop the "rewards" and keep the tracking system.

This rings true with my own kids too, who have no abnormal issues with self-regulation. The visual aspect of a sticker chart or a checklist makes expectations concrete.

[gaialice]

Originally Posted by natensarah

that when they do not perform as we want it does not mean that we should lose hope or be disappointed, just that they're still learning. Easier said than done, right?

Believe me natensarah, I have been so very patient. And perhaps, if I were homeschooling, I would try to be patient for longer. But I work full time, the child goes to school, has a babysitter... she needs to behave in a way that is acceptable for her age, she really has to. And she is able to. The longer we wait for her to learn, the lower her expecations of herself, her self-esteem , is dropping. We need to really change her behaviour. I do not see another way.

Originally Posted by sledg

Some kids sit better with something to put their feet on, some kids like these little inflatable discs that give them some sensory input/stimulation while they sit, some kids sit better with weighted pads on their laps.

I'll think into this. Maybe music could also perhaps help. Where do you get this stuff?

Originally Posted by hippymomma69

Well she's only 4 so her "chores" are still pretty light - but basically I've tried to identify things she's interested in (helping to feed the dogs for example - or filling everyone's water cup) to have her help.

Robyn, thanks for replying. My dd2 does not like to be helpful. She is just not interested. Really not. The only, only thing dd2 responds well to is playful parenting. Like you know pretend you're a mama squirrel and the toys are your nuts that you put away for the winter and now someone has spilled them on the floor and if you do not pick them up fast then the snow will come and cover them all up and you will not have food for your tiny baby squirrels. And on and on to pick up a few lego pieces... :yawning: It has to be very, very, involved in plot, and changing day to day, to keep her interested and motivated. But, what I am seeing is, not many people have skills in playful parenting the way I do, and certainly one cannot expect the teacher in her preschool (and school next year) to playfully parent her into doing her work. What you say about enlisting her help for things she likes to do for starters is a good idea also. I need to find some things that I can praise her for that are genuine...

Originally Posted by mamaduck

Carrying a points sheet, with specific feedback spelled out in a measurable form helps them to be self-aware and stay on task.

Would you mind explaining this "feedback" to me in detail? Because, I have prepared a little chart with their evening routine, each thing they do (like brushing teeth.. ) they need to do a cross and move on to the next. But, I am not sure about feedback. Like, ideally the routine should take little time and they should stay on task from beginning to end (as opposed to wandering away to make a drawing... ) I mean I do not want to give marks here... and there is also the question of the comparison with dd1, who does this in a breeze and no longer even would need the chart...

I wonder why is it that this comes natural to some mums, and it does not come natural to me at all. I see moms for whom it is not at all a problem to put their kids to bed evening after evening... how do they do it? I have read a pile of books, and I am none the wiser...:

[Magella]

Originally Posted by gaialice

Some kids sit better with something to put their feet on, some kids like these little inflatable discs that give them some sensory input/stimulation while they sit, some kids sit better with weighted pads on their laps.

I'll think into this. Maybe music could also perhaps help. Where do you get this stuff?

Look into www.southpawenterprises.com. It's a catalog of equipment for occupational therapists. One thing you can do if this stuff is too expensive is look at the catalog for ideas, then make your own or look at sporting goods stores for similar things. The chair I got for dd to use at the table (which goes on her regular chair) is in that catalog and also here: www.howda.com (hers is the HowdaHUG).

I see moms for whom it is not at all a problem to put their kids to bed evening after evening... how do they do it? I have read a pile of books, and I am none the wiser...

Maybe their kids just wind down easier in the evening, have an easier time getting settled and falling asleep. Or maybe those moms have worked just as hard at it as you have, and have finally stumbled upon what works for them. Maybe it's not about it coming more naturally to other moms.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by gaialice

Believe me natensarah, I have been so very patient. And perhaps, if I were homeschooling, I would try to be patient for longer. But I work full time, the child goes to school, has a babysitter... she needs to behave in a way that is acceptable for her age, she really has to. And she is able to. The longer we wait for her to learn, the lower her expecations of herself, her self-esteem , is dropping. We need to really change her behaviour. I do not see another way.

I understand. But I also think you should continue to be patient, while also figuring out your other system. Does that make sense? I mean, I'm sure you are doing it already, but just try to keep reminding yourself that she will be able to learn, she will figure it all out, you will be able to create a system that works for her. I'm not really into the whole "positive attitude" thing, except when it comes to parenting.

Originally Posted by gaialice

I wonder why is it that this comes natural to some mums, and it does not come natural to me at all. I see moms for whom it is not at all a problem to put their kids to bed evening after evening... how do they do it? I have read a pile of books, and I am none the wiser...:

If it makes you feel any better, I'd NEVER be able to do the playful parenting thing with the mama squirell, etc. I'd do about one iteration of that and say, "Okay, pick them all up now." We all have different skills, and your kids are very lucky to have you. I try (though lots of times I don't succeed) to not ever go down the "other moms" road, because there'll always be someone out there who can do something better that I can.