When do they switch to a forward facing carseat? - Page 7

[lemurmommies]

Originally Posted by DahliaRW

In those cars the manual says not to do that. And I believe that most carseat manuals say to only install on forward facing seats. I think it's because they are not crash tested rearfacing installed forward facing (or however you would describe it), so if you were to do it you would be using your children as test subjects.

Originally Posted by ccohenou

She's in Canada.

I have a Canadian Marathon, and page 9 of my manual specifically says that it can only be installed in forward facing seats.

[cancat]

They should all say that, even in canada.

[the_lissa]

I just triple checked and it does say only install on a forward facing seat. I was reading it wrong as forward facing crs, not forward facing car seat.

[Alki Mama]

Update at 16 months

Just to make this thread longer... DS is 16 months now and is just outgrowing the rf weight limit on his current seat (35 lbs). So his growth really slowed from 7 months on. I thought I'd update for any other parents of big babies who might be worried.

When exactly do you turn your kids ff? Do you wait until they absolutely hit the weight limit, or do you turn a little earlier? (I tried searching for guidelines on this question, and all I can find is a lot of answers of "Don't do it!!!" )

DS is still 95th percentile for height (33.5"), so I suspect he doesn't have long in this seat even ff before outgrowing the height limit, assuming he doesn't hit the weight limit first.

Now to choose our next seat! I'm torn between the Regent, Frontier, & Radian 80. I've liked each at different points and haven't decided. He's tall and has a long torso, and is obviously a chunk. Any thoughts? 1997 Ford Escort at the moment. There is a store near us that will let us test seats in our car to make sure they fit, so we'll do that. I think I heard the Radian was too skinny for big kids and the Frontier's harness slots too short (also says it's for 2 years old+). Is the Regent a good choice? I'm a little worried about its enormity for air travel, but we're trying to avoid flying, anyway.

I never did get a Swedish seat, obviously. It stopped seeming urgent once we realized how slowly DS was gaining weight. I'm still nervous about turning him ff even now, especially with his big ol' head, but we did get our tether anchor installed, so I guess it's time. Does anyone think it's worth going through the expense/hassle of getting a Swedish seat at this point, or would you just turn him since he's 16 months?

Cheers, and thanks for all your help!

[an_aurora]

I would turn him FF as soon as he is 34.5 lbs at the end of the day, with a full tummy, fully dressed, with shoes.

As far as a new seat, I'd go for a Regent so you can get the maximum use out of it.

[alegna]

Look at the safeguard. I LOVE it.

-Angela

[thepeach80]

There's only so much you can do, if he's outgrown US seats rfing, he needs to be ffing, that's all she can do w/out getting you to send her a seat. The important things are making sure it's installed right and it's top tethered, those will make a huge diference in how they perform in a crash.

When do I go ffing? AJ was 32# I think so we switched to 35# seat which he promptly outgrew the next month (height wise and hit 34#). I told Evan he could probably go ffing on his 4th birthday (in December). He's about 31# in a 35# seat. He gets to get a new seat when the baby comes anyways and gets to sit ffing then no matter what, that's early Feb at the latest. Ilana is a shrimp like Evan so still has another 18 mos or so I'm guessing before having to ff, she'll be 2 in less than a month. I hope you get it figured out, but at 16 mos I would try and wait as long as possible. We have a Graco Nautilus for our 5.5yo and are very happy w/ it.

[tankgirl73]

Now to choose our next seat! I'm torn between the Regent, Frontier, & Radian 80. I've liked each at different points and haven't decided.

Caveat emptor, I don't have experience with the Regent or the Frontier to compare. We have a Radian (Radian 65) and really have loved it. It is narrower than most car seats, but I think even hefty kids would fit for a long time. There's still plenty of empty space around DD. You'll get a better idea when you try it out -- love stores that let you test seats!!

We've found it relatively easy to install (not a walk in the park but easier than most seats) since it's very well thought-out in terms of ease-of-use. The folding feature, we don't use it much but when we moved across the country and checked the seat on the plane, it was very handy! It's VERY heavy, because of the steel skeleton. Since most seats are really just plastic (with shock-absorbing foam providing the safety), this was the deal-maker for us. It just seems stronger and safer, and it does have very high safety ratings.

DD is 22mo and 24lbs and we do have her FF (eek)... the seat is sooooo tall that we can't get a safe RF installation in one of our cars. We can in the other car, but during the move we had to use the FF-only car, and lost the attachment needed for the RF installation! We only recently found it again (buried in a box of course). So I'm contemplating switching cars again and putting her back to RF. I know it's safer, but she's just been so happy being able to sit up and play and it's nice being able to see her without needing the extra back seat mirror, etc. Plus the FF installation is a lot easier, and is VERY secure with the tether in place.

I know, I know. I'm pretty sure I'll do it. Hmm... I'd better check the RF height limit, she's already 33"... but it's probably good on the Radian for awhile yet?

[KnitLady]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2DVfqFhseo

This video has several videos of crash test dummies in rear facing and forward facing seats as they go through a wreck. The difference between the two is astounding.

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

I know, I know. I'm pretty sure I'll do it. Hmm... I'd better check the RF height limit, she's already 33"... but it's probably good on the Radian for awhile yet?

As long as there is at least 1" of hard shell above her head she is safe height wise rearfacing. My ds wouldn't have outgrown the radian rfing by height until he was nearly 38". He was already too heavy, however.

[Alki Mama]

Originally Posted by KnitLady

This video has several videos of crash test dummies in rear facing and forward facing seats as they go through a wreck. The difference between the two is astounding.

No, I know, I know! Eep. That's why I've hesitated in turning him.

Originally Posted by alegna

Look at the safeguard. I LOVE it.

It looks great! Also $$$, but what are you going to do? And thanks to the others for the other recommendations.

Is there a likelihood he'll outgrow these seats before he's old enough for a booster? And then what? Why is the US so slow to adopt higher-weight/height harnessed and/or rf seats?

Originally Posted by Adventuredad

I must strongly disagree with your statement about it being "hassle/expensive" getting a Swedish seat. It's more expensive than a regular ff seat but safety is on a totally different level. I still think car seats here are a bargain. I have two kids, the cost for keeping one of them safe in the car for the first 10 years is peanuts in the big picture.

First, infant seat (0-6 months). Graco Snugride or something similar for about $100. Second, Swedish Britax Hi-Way seat for about $400 (6 months-5 years). That's retail price here, your price would be slightly more. Third, Britax Monarch BPB for about $100 (5 years-10 years). Total cost for great car seat safety during 10 years comes to about $600. I think that's very cheap considering all other costs associated with kids.
[...]

Buying a Swedish seat is not a hassle (I'm located in Stockholm, Sweden). Send one email and make one Paypal payment and your seat will be at your door in 5-7 days. I will go to the store and buy your seat, bubble wrap it, and take it to the post office. You will receive all receipts, manuals, etc, I don't make a dime on the seat. It's actually a $20 loss for me due to Paypal fees. But you would be rear facing your son which is important to me. I sent seats to New Zealand and US the other week, to people like you who also were concerend about car seat safety.

The hassle I was referring to was certainly not dealing with you! I appreciate your efforts in promoting safety and helping concerned parents out. I meant with the NHTSA or whatever it's called, which says it's illegal to use imported car seats. I understand I'll need a doctor's prescription to get the seat through customs, and then I'm supposed to petition for permission to use it, but some people suggest just skipping that in case permission's denied. Better to ask forgiveness than permission? Did the people in New Zealand and the US you sent seats to mention customs duties or problems with inspectors?

The expense is real, at least for me. I'm not trying to be difficult -- I have $579 in my bank account and a bill for $800 due in two days. I'm working fast to try to cover it. We're not destitute or anything, but we don't have extra money. I'm assuming the Swedish economy is better than the US one at the moment? So far, despite copious hints, our parents have not volunteered to help us out with buying a new seat. I guess I'll have to flat out ask them for a loan. And I don't want you to lose money on the transaction, so please let me know what the total cost would be with the fees added on. (PayPal fees annoy me, too...) If we're going to have to spend $$ on a new seat soon anyway, I guess spending $$$$$$ is about the same difference. Ha ha -- that's what got the US economy in trouble in the first place, isn't it?

You know, let me go measure my car's back seat again first -- I forget what I came up with last time -- and compare it to the measurements on this thread. I want to make sure a big ol' honkin' seat will fit. We have the shallowest back seating area imaginable, seriously no leg room unless our front seats are far forward, which is then uncomfortable and unsafe for the front passenger/driver.

Random question, too, for anyone -- we had the tether anchor installed, and they installed it a little off center. We estimated no more than 15 degrees. I can still install a seat in the center, then, right? Isn't 20 degrees the maximum angle, or is that just for certain seats? I couldn't find the info in my manual.

I'll be back once I've ventured outdoors. It's not raining for once!

[an_aurora]

Its okay if the tether is a bit off center, as long as you are using the designated TA for the seating position you are using.

[Alki Mama]

Originally Posted by an_aurora

Its okay if the tether is a bit off center, as long as you are using the designated TA for the seating position you are using.

Hmmm...how would I know that? It's in between the center and one side, not centered behind either seat. Do I need to call the Ford people who installed it? I was just thinking it would be safer to keep him in the middle if possible. (Nothing was pre-installed, since it's a 1997 car, so there's only the one anchor now.)

[an_aurora]

Originally Posted by Alki Mama

Hmmm...how would I know that? It's in between the center and one side, not centered behind either seat. Do I need to call the Ford people who installed it? I was just thinking it would be safer to keep him in the middle if possible. (Nothing was pre-installed, since it's a 1997 car, so there's only the one anchor now.)

When you had it installed did they specify? I know that my DH installed the TA in my mom's 98 Taurus and it is for the drivers side outboard position but is more towards the center. The TA kit specified to only use it for the drivers side seating position.

[Alki Mama]

Originally Posted by KnitLady

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2DVfqFhseo

Originally Posted by Adventuredad

It's about 5 times safer to keep your child RF at 16 months compared to FF.

Is that comparing RF to tethered or untethered FF? In the videos from you and KnitLady, it looked untethered, but I wasn't sure because of what I think was the lap belt that I was seeing. I heard tethering reduces forward excursion by something like 6 inches?

Oh, and do you know what height DS would end up using the seat till? He's tall and has a long torso. He's 33.5"/85 cm now at 16 m, and his seat-to-shoulder height is about 12"/30.5 cm.

Originally Posted by an_aurora

When you had it installed did they specify? I know that my DH installed the TA in my mom's 98 Taurus and it is for the drivers side outboard position but is more towards the center. The TA kit specified to only use it for the drivers side seating position.

Yeah, I'm thinking it's for the side, then. Bummer.

[an_aurora]

Originally Posted by Alki Mama

Is that comparing RF to tethered or untethered FF? In the videos from you and KnitLady, it looked untethered, but I wasn't sure because of what I think was the lap belt that I was seeing. I heard tethering reduces forward excursion by something like 6 inches?

Tethering does reduce head excursion. In this case, I outboard tethered is safer than center untethered.

[Alki Mama]

Originally Posted by an_aurora

Tethering does reduce head excursion. In this case, I outboard tethered is safer than center untethered.

Do you know what the relative safety is of tethered FF vs. RF? I can look it up if you don't know off the top of your head! I'm just lazy.

I realized, too, that having to use the outboard position will mean less space for the seat. Part of DS's seat now is in between our front seats. But I guess the Swedish seats are really upright, huh? Are they comfortable to sleep in?

[an_aurora]

Originally Posted by Alki Mama

Do you know what the relative safety is of tethered FF vs. RF? I can look it up if you don't know off the top of your head! I'm just lazy.

I realized, too, that having to use the outboard position will mean less space for the seat. Part of DS's seat now is in between our front seats. But I guess the Swedish seats are really upright, huh? Are they comfortable to sleep in?

RF is always safer. The statistics read that a child is five times more likely to be injured in a crash while forward facing than while rear facing. A forward facing seat is very safe. A tethered forward facing seat is even safeR. A rear facing seat is the safEST.

ETA: I don't think the Swedish seats are any more upright than our (US) convertibles. After a child has good head control, the seat can be installed more upright. The range is 30-45* from vertical, and as far as I know that's pretty universal.

[Alki Mama]

All right, measurements of our backseat:

19.5 inches/49.5 cm seat depth
26 inches/66 cm between back of backseat and back of front seat -- that's the space the carseat would need to fit in (just found out airlines have 31 inch seat pitch -- I knew our backseat was uncomfortable!)
29 inches/73.7 cm height from back seat to front seat head rest -- just mentioning that in case these carseats are enormously tall

Do you think a Swedish seat would fit?

You use the seat till ~5 years old? But most American kids can use their American seats RF till 3 or so, whereas my guy is outgrowing his at 16 months. So is he likely to outgrow even a bigger seat by 2 or 3 then?

Do the Swedish RF seats need to have a tether to the floor? I don't have any floor tether anchors, and we looked all over and couldn't find a suitable alternative anchor point (seat supports, etc.). If anyone knows of one, let me know. They all felt smooth and of one piece -- not like a table leg but more like a horizontal metal L-shaped slat. There was nowhere to hook or loop the tether, not even a convenient hole in the metal piece.

[an_aurora]

The Swedish seats have a 55 lb RF limit, so you'll be good for awhile

Also, the seats do tether RF but do not require designated RF tether points. What car do you have? Is it a Taurus? Try flipping the front seat forward and sliding it out of the way. You should be able to find something on the seat track to tether to.