I am embrassed by DDs behaviour...wwyd?

[momtoS]

have a three year old and a six month old (both girls). My oldest has always been *spirited*, but recently has driven me to my wits end. She screams ALL THE TIME, not for any real reason...happy, sad, to be loud, when she is tired, etc. She throws stuff. She turns into an octopus on speed when I try to get her into the car seat. She takes off on me. She is really hard to be around at times. This morning for example, we had a sign language class, in which she screamed and threw something at one of the other children. When I got her dressed to leave she ripped her jacket off. Then when we got to the car, she took off on me and ran to play in the puddles. Then she threw a fit getting into the car and screamed the whole way home. Finally I COULDN"T take it anymore. I gave her a time out.....not that it works of course. And then she screamed more and then peed her pants. : My second daughter is fortunately the *dream baby* very very easy to care for, although I sometimes feel sorry for her because DD1 usually gets all the attention or shes screaming. I am at a total loss. I am also frustrated that she nurses so much (she wakes 3-9 times a night, at three years old!!!!) How do I cut down the screaming and any tips for the nursing would be appreciated!

[gossamer]

Have you considered food allergies? Often this kindo f out of control behaviiour can be triggered by food allergies. When she is screaming, do you ever try whispering to her? When my son gets that worked up I repeat over and over, look at mommy, look at mommy. IF I can make eye contact, he seems to settle down and be able to talk to me. Other than that I don't have any ideas.
Gossamer

[MtBikeLover]

On the screaming - how about sitting down with her and just having a discussion with her about what she needs because it sounds like she needs something from you. Make it very friendly, inviting, non-confrontational. Find a time when you are both calm. You can bring up the screaming and how you both need to find a way to get things done without the screaming. invite her to come up with solutions. For example "There are certain things we have to do, like get in your car seat. The wriggling/screaming makes me feel frustrated. Can we come up with solution that will work for both of us? What would work for you?" My kids take very well to this and get very creative with their solutions. And I find that they follow through with them much better if they come up with the solution versus me just telling them to do something.

It could be that she needs more alone time with you. I found with my son that he needed some more one-on-one time with me without his sister around. I try to make sure he gets that every week and sometimes we have a mommy and me date night where we go out, just the two of us, to a place that he chooses. I am completely focused on him and we do whatever he wants (within reason of course!).

On the breastfeeding issue, I wouldn't breastfeed in the middle of the night anymore. I had to stop my 2.5 year old because she was waking up every night 2-3 times a night and it was just killing me because I then had to go to work in the morning. I offered my daughter milk from the kitchen or water and I told her I would hold her and sing to her. The first few times were tough and she screamed in my arms for a few minutes, but after a couple of days, she was fine. Every once in a while, she will still wake up in the middle of the night but she never asks for milk anymore. She just asks me to hold her and sing to her, which I do of course. But she sleeps through the night 95% of the time now. I am sure this is not considered CLW, but for my sanity, I just couldn't nurse any more at night. It was making me very angry and I didn't want to feel that way about nursing. We still nurse to sleep and in the morning and sometimes when I get home from work and I am a much happier mommy and enjoy it much more than I did when she was nursing 20 times a day.

[Mrs_Hos]

Personally I would continue to nurse at night--IF you are ok with it--mainly because I think she needs more attention (positive one on one) and is trying to get it at night. She's also trying to get negative attention during the day.
I would also look at diet--or even TEETH...low grade pain can make a kid really difficult. Pain at night from a bad tooth may make her want to nurse all night...or even a sore throat--are there any cold drafts? Is the room too hot or dry causing a sore throat? Does she have an allergy you don't know about causing a sore throat?
If possible, I would plan to have 1 hr a day of one on one time...maybe during baby's nap time or something...then do a craft or sing songs etc...

[Fuamami]

Maybe she's overtired? That can sap a kid's self-control like nothing else. And that's when my kids are particularly resistant, for apparently no reason.

Personally, I'd nightwean her. She'd probably sleep better, and if it were me, I'd be more able to give generously of myself during the day.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

DD (34 mths) nurses 6-9 times per night. I got so envious of mama's who nightweaned and now were saying, "Well, it was tough for a few days, but now she never asks to nurse at night, and she only wakes once if at all!" I used Jay Gordon's gentle nightweaning plan.

Anyway it was a complete disaster. Chasing an hysterical toddler through the house for hours and hours. Driving in the car from 2:30am til 4:15am, still she screamed, "home, mama! no more car!" Worse of all, when I lost night nursing, I lost the best (maybe the only) tool I had for getting her back to sleep. I gave up after 5 days of no sleep. It was insane.

If you do try nightweaning, I think Jay Gordon's method is probably the gentlest for you and her http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

I agree with a PP who suggested checking out diet (eliminate dairy first then try gluten after that is what I would suggest) (from your diet as well).

Also you might look at sensory issues, which create sensory needs that if not met can cause irritabilty, volatile behaviors, sleep issues, etc. Lots of water play, swinging, jumping, messy play (e.g. dried beans in a tub, fingerpaint, playdoh). This swing has done wonders for DD's mood and was pretty easy to make; I think a swing like this is the fastest way to address most sensory needs:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96...DSC01289-1.jpg

[rainyday]

Originally Posted by natensarah

Maybe she's overtired? That can sap a kid's self-control like nothing else. And that's when my kids are particularly resistant, for apparently no reason.

Personally, I'd nightwean her. She'd probably sleep better, and if it were me, I'd be more able to give generously of myself during the day.

:

The screaming and out-of-control kinds of behavior could very well be lack of sleep. Waking up 3 to 9 times at night and nursing means that her sleep is really fragmented and not as restful.

One other thing I'd wonder about is sensory issues. Some kids with sensory processing disorders can really need lots of stimulation, including lots of noise. Have you done any reading on sensory processing? I obviously don't know if this is really the situation for your DD, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by rainyday

:

The screaming and out-of-control kinds of behavior could very well be lack of sleep. Waking up 3 to 9 times at night and nursing means that her sleep is really fragmented and not as restful.
.

That was my first through, too.

[chfriend]

As always, recommending Sleepless in America....

[LynnS6]

Random thoughts:

1) It sounds like she's not getting enough sleep, transitions are hard on her, and she's highly spirited. It's hard combination.
2) When are you getting a break?
3) At 3, she's old enough to night wean.
4) Is she getting enough large motor play time?

I second the "Sleepless in America" recommendation. And I'd tackle night weaning first because I think that might be a 'root cause' of a lot of tiredness and hence 'misbehavior.' I'd also add Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's other books: Kids, Parents & Power Struggles and Raising Your Spirited Child.

I night weaned our persistent, nursing addicted dd at 34 months. I had tried several earlier times and as someone else had noted, it was a disaster. BUT, even those 'disasters' had an upside, which is that they reduced the number of night nursings. We were down to one-two by 34 months. I then picked a date, and told her that after that date, she couldn't nurse until it was light outside. We had a few days of her popping up every hour to check to see if it was light yet, and then nursing at the first crack of dawn. And a few times (when she's been getting sick) where she demands to nurse at 2 am. But mostly she's OK. She falls asleep in her own bed. Wakes about 2 am and comes into ours. Asks to nurse between 6-7. Occasionally I have to remind her that if she keeps waking me up to nurse, I'll need to ask her to go back to her own bed because I need my sleep. I've never had to say that more than once.

I'd be highly tempted to go "cold turkey" (after explaining it to her), that mommy's body is tired, mommy is too tired to nurse any more, and because she's older, she can learn to fall back asleep without nursing. (I actually wrote a weaning story for my dd about this - it's not good for mom and dad to be so tired.. You've learned many new things... was the theme).

Then I'd give it a week -10 days. This is not a one person job. You will need help because you can't be completely sleepless and care for a 3 yo and baby in the morning. So, you need someone around to spell you and/or give you a nap during the day.

At the same time, I'd increase the amount of time you spend one-on-one with her during the day. At least 2 30 minute sessions where you are on the floor, following her lead for play. That will help maintain the connection she's missing at night.

For transitions, make sure you give warnings - I like a 5-3-1 minute system, where at 1 minute I say "we have one minute before we leave, what do you want to do as your last thing?"

You may also want to consider the well-worn advice of "picking your battles". For example:

I don't battle dd about coats and shoes. I will bring them along. If it's cold enough, she'll put them on. If we go into a store and she doesn't want to wear shoes, then she knows she must ride in the cart because the store rules say shoes must be on. Or, could you have let her stomp in the puddles for 5 minutes and then gone home? My kids LOVE puddle stomping, and so I'm pretty tolerant of it. If we have a time limit, I'll tell them. Yes, they get wet. They've learned that by stomping in lots of puddles. So, if I think they might not want to be wet until we get home, I'll remind them "remember, that will make you wet. Are you OK being wet while we're in the store?" 9 times out of 10, they choose to wait until the way OUT to stomp in the puddles.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

I night weaned our persistent, nursing addicted dd at 34 months. I had tried several earlier times and as someone else had noted, it was a disaster. BUT, even those 'disasters' had an upside, which is that they reduced the number of night nursings. We were down to one-two by 34 months. I then picked a date, and told her that after that date, she couldn't nurse until it was light outside. We had a few days of her popping up every hour to check to see if it was light yet, and then nursing at the first crack of dawn. And a few times (when she's been getting sick) where she demands to nurse at 2 am. But mostly she's OK. She falls asleep in her own bed. Wakes about 2 am and comes into ours. Asks to nurse between 6-7. Occasionally I have to remind her that if she keeps waking me up to nurse, I'll need to ask her to go back to her own bed because I need my sleep. I've never had to say that more than once.

OP, sorry to hijack!

LynnS6, would your DD get really upset at first? If so, how long would you let her cry before giving in and nursing? Did anything help comfort her during that time when she wanted to nurse but couldn't? Would you continue to try to soothe her without nursing even if she had gotten to the point where you'd never seen her so upset, her voice was hoarse and sounded painful, and she was vomitting from crying so hard? Sometimes I wonder if I should have just kept going. It was really hard for me to know I was making my child so upset But I would LOVE to not be nursing 7-9 times a night...

[mamabeca]

I night weaned at about 2yo, because I was so exhausted. Again, this is a personal thing, and it's not for every mama-baby team. The boy seemed ready for it, and turns out he was. Snuggled and sang, and we did end up with just a little crying that first night, but I did explain it to him, and even at 2yo he *got* it. Things improved for him a lot. Now he really only wakes if he has a bad dream (about nightweaning?!) or is sick. He's a tried and true co-sleeper, and no nursing is ok. I think you have to feel her out - if she is going to get worse (behaviourally) because of the weaning, then it isn't worth it yet. Work on one thing at a time. I highly recommend the previous recs for Spirited Child, and also for the Jay Gordon rec. His method is so easy to adapt to your own level that it's probably the best overall advice on the market right now.

I also think it may be food reaction based. Often times kids are so sensitive to food additives (colors, especially, but also MSG and other stuff that is routinely put in there), as well as protein allergies (like dairy, egg, and some legumes) and gluten. Hopefully taking out the food additives is the ticket, because that's not so hard. We have dairy issues here and it's not an easy thing to deal with long term. Not impossible, but easier to cut out the colors and MSG, iykwim. You really need to make a food diary, keeping track of EVERYTHING she eats for 48-72 hrs, a week would even be better. You can add a column for *bad* behavior moments, and see if there is any ability to correlate. It takes time. There is nothing anyone besides you/your family can do about this stuff, really, unless she has some kind of snesory/developmental thing, and can get OT through your school dist. or insurance.

Best wishes, mama. These are not easy kids to raise, but they are wondeful, beautiful people who deserve the best - and it's a good thing she has YOU!

[naturemama1]

Mama, I just wanted to reach out with a because your subject title caught my eye. It must be extremely frustrating and mortifying when your DD is being her spirited self in public, but please don't feel that everyone else is judging you or thinking poorly of your mothering skills. I have two easygoing, un-spirited children (that doesn't sound right, LOL -- ykwim; they don't make it on the Kurcinka test) and I never, ever think poorly of a mother who's dealing with a difficult moment in public.

There are more of us standing by silently in public, admiring your grace under fire and sending you positive vibes and prayers, than you know. Truly.

[dulce de leche]

I would not nightwean without looking at food allergies first. When dd is reacting, she wakes and asks to nurse. When we don't have any traces of wheat, she sleeps fine.

[momtoS]

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate all the information and will look into the books mentioned too! Yesterday was a very rough day....but today is a new day so hopefully it will be better.
naturemama1--I would like to thank you for the hug and comment, I always think everyone is staring at me thinking *why did you bring that out of control child shopping now?* I would normally leave....but I NEEDED diapers.....

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

OP, sorry to hijack!

LynnS6, would your DD get really upset at first? If so, how long would you let her cry before giving in and nursing? Did anything help comfort her during that time when she wanted to nurse but couldn't? Would you continue to try to soothe her without nursing even if she had gotten to the point where you'd never seen her so upset, her voice was hoarse and sounded painful, and she was vomitting from crying so hard? Sometimes I wonder if I should have just kept going. It was really hard for me to know I was making my child so upset But I would LOVE to not be nursing 7-9 times a night...

Well, do you mean the first, the second or the third time we tried to night wean? I never set a time limit on crying. It was more or less "we'll nurse once tonight and then we're done until morning" and then comfort her as she cried.

It was kind of a delicate dance, stopping nursing and seeing how she responded.

The first time (19 months), dh stayed with her and tried to get her to sleep in the crib without nursing, and she cried off and on for 2-3 hours with him, maybe more. This went on for well over a week. At that point in time, I said "she's not ready, she's not sleeping any more, and we're going back to night nursing." But, even with this, she never cried so loudly that she vomited. If she had, I would have given up then and there.

The second time, she was in bed with us. She cried hard for a few days, but went back to sleep. And I would just hold her and sing. She's always been calmed by music. But then she got sick, then I got sick, and it was too difficult to keep it up because she would wake up a lot and ask to nurse (she always wants to nurse when she's stuffed up).

The third time (when she was 34-35 months), she cried for maybe 15 minutes, the first night, 10 the second and about 5 the third. But it wasn't the same volume or intensity, and she didn't wake every hour asking to nurse.

She does sometimes still wake up in the middle of the night asking to nurse, and I remind her that it's not light. She'll protest, but go back to sleep. Sometimes she'll claw at me, and I'm pretty firm in saying "If you do that, I can't sleep. If you keep doing that, I'll have to put you back in your own bed so I can sleep."

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Thanks for the reply, LynnS6. You've given me some good ideas. It does seem that I might have to wait a bit, though, as DD is nowhere near the "I don't like this one bit and I'm going to complain loudly and all night, but its not the end of the world, really" mode yet.

[cookinmama]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

This swing has done wonders for DD's mood and was pretty easy to make; I think a swing like this is the fastest way to address most sensory needs:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96...DSC01289-1.jpg

I would love to know how to make a swing like that one.

[captain optimism]

I knew before I even clicked the link that the child whose behavior was out of control was going to be THREE.

The reason your younger child is easier than your elder is that six months is the most adorable, friendly age and three is the toughest age, and to be a three year old with a sister at the most adorable age has got to awaken the demons of jealousy.

Of course, I can talk, because I have only one child and when he was three, last year, and the going got--three years old--on me, I didn't have an infant under a year to deal with while I coped with the 3-year-oldness of him. For example, one way that I dealt with three year old tantrums was to say (but only when it was true!) "if you need to have a tantrum right now, that's okay because I can handle it." But you don't have that leeway when you have a littler one to take care of.

I think one way to cope with her negative attention-seeking behavior is to pre-empt it by giving positive attention before any of it happens. Plan lots of time for taking care of her needs into the day, and don't feel like you are short-changing the littler one.

The emotional needs are important, but you can also manage that tough year with a lot of consciousness of physical needs. I don't know about food allergies, but make sure that you have snacks on you. You should plan to give her a between meal snack that consists of real food (such as you would serve at a meal--with protein and fat) for the mid-point between meals. Not too many errands, yes she still probably does need a nap, and if you can get her outside play time and some quiet inside play time every day, that will help.

She will outgrow some of this behavior. All of us in the know realize that three year olds act like this, and when we see you out with her, we have nothing but sympathy.

[Momtwice]

A 3 year old child who is misbehaving and chronic sleep problems AND nursing frequently at night? I'd check out allergies and sensitivities too. There's a book called Is This Your Child by Rapp. Very helpful.

If it's short term, could be a growth spurt, which caused all of the above behaviors in my kid at that age.

And as the previous poster suggested, it could be from blood sugar dropping between meals