What's a CL solution to this situation?

[chinaKat]

OK, CL people, you have all gotten into my head. I really think about the suggestions you guys give when I get stuck in a bind with DD1 (3yo) and DD2 (4mo). But, today I was stumped. What should I have done here?

I had two important errands to run today. I had some paperwork that had to be dropped off in person, and then I had to go submit a request for some additional data, and I had to sign for that data in person. Both errands on the same campus, but in different buildings. I had to bring both DDs, it had to be done today (time sensitive info). The campus was a 45 minute drive away, in an urban setting.

When we got there, DD1 just refused to go. She wanted to be carried, which was not an option -- I hurt my back yesterday, and DD1 weighs over 30 lbs. I didn't really even want to carry DD2, if I'd had my way I would have put DD2 in the stroller and DD1 would have walked. But, after a very, very long discussion (me remaining as calm as possible, DD1 *wailing*) the only solution was for DD1 to ride in the stroller and me to wear DD2. Whatever.

This worked fine, for the first errand. Then, I discovered that errand #2 was in a building with no handicapped accessiblity, so I couldn't take in the stroller (there were front steps, plus the errand was on the second floor). DD1 flat out refused to walk. We were at a stalemate. I tried making it a game, etc -- used all the "tricks" -- no dice. The only place she wanted to go was home.

What should I have done? I won't say up front what the solution was, but it certainly was NOT mutually agreeable. :

[dawncayden]

What I would have done was:
'Mommy needs to do this errand, when we are done, what is something YOU would like to do?'
'Oh the park! Sure we can go there when we are finished here' 'When we get home you want me to read you 5 books! Alright! When we get home I'll read you 5 books'
'Would it make it easier to walk, if we walk like dinosaurs?' 'Can you think of something we can walk like?'

I'm dealing with a 2 year old, but these are my thoughts

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by dawncayden

What I would have done was:
'Mommy needs to do this errand, when we are done, what is something YOU would like to do?'
'Oh the park! Sure we can go there when we are finished here' 'When we get home you want me to read you 5 books! Alright! When we get home I'll read you 5 books'
'Would it make it easier to walk, if we walk like dinosaurs?' 'Can you think of something we can walk like?'

I'm dealing with a 2 year old, but these are my thoughts

Yup. Many permutations of "okay, what would YOU like to do?" and "mama NEEDS to do this first, do you want to bring x/walk like y/count z on the way?"

No dice! All I got in return was "I WANNNAAAA GOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOME!!!!!!" no matter what I tried.

[MtBikeLover]

Not saying this is what I would have done in the "heat of the moment" since my emotions may have taken over, but sometimes I say (after explaining why I need to do _____ and trying to negotiate something for child to do in return) "We will go home after I have done ______. I will sit here until you are ready to come with me." And then I just sit there and wait. Without any communication to the child that won't go. it usually takes about 5-10 minutes of sitting there before they get up.

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by MtBikeLover

Not saying this is what I would have done in the "heat of the moment" since my emotions may have taken over, but sometimes I say (after explaining why I need to do _____ and trying to negotiate something for child to do in return) "We will go home after I have done ______. I will sit here until you are ready to come with me." And then I just sit there and wait. Without any communication to the child that won't go. it usually takes about 5-10 minutes of sitting there before they get up.

Hm. Maybe that would have worked. We were on a gritty city street, though, not my first choice of a place to hang out with a couple little ones. I saw a bench in the distance that I suggested we go sit on, but that suggestion got shot down.

Still, I see your point. Just sort of out wait her.

[static-roser]

What is CL? I just looked in Questions and Suggestions and don't see that one.

[Imogen]

Originally Posted by static-roser

What is CL? I just looked in Questions and Suggestions and don't see that one.

Consensual Living...

Consensual living is a process, a philosophy, a mindset by which we seek to live in harmony with our families and community. It involves finding mutually agreed upon solutions, where the needs of both parties are not only considered but addressed. Everyone’s wants and needs are equally valid, regardless of age. Conflicting wants or needs are discussed and mutually agreeable solutions are created or negotiated which meet the underlying needs of all parties

http://www.transformingfamily.com/co...tualliving.asp

There is also a really good group on Yahoo, a lot of MDC Mother's visit there and post http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...sensual+Living This is a link to the MDC thread on this subject


Peace

[anne+arun]

Consensual Living. Some of the regular posters here (such as Pat) run the Consensual Living web site which you can visit here and an egroup along the same name.

In my terms its about striving for "win win" situations and respecting/ honoring each persons ideas and opinions in that process... even if they happen to be a very little person.

But there are better more eloquent definitions on the CL web site.

arun

---------------
http://www.theparentingpit.com

[MtBikeLover]

Originally Posted by chinaKat

Hm. Maybe that would have worked. We were on a gritty city street, though, not my first choice of a place to hang out with a couple little ones. I saw a bench in the distance that I suggested we go sit on, but that suggestion got shot down.

Still, I see your point. Just sort of out wait her.

Oh - I wait it out in the car. So in that case, i would have just locked the doors and sat in my seat until my 4 year old undid his seat buckle and said he was ready to go.

[WuWei]

What did she want to do "at home"? I'd probably plan a way to have fun within the errands, perhaps, meeting the needs for physical activity beforehand. Are there resources who could stay with the children, come along with you to do child watching, take them somewhere while you ran the errands (such as to the park).

Ds doesn't always want to go on a planned (by me) outing or errand. I find other ways to meet my need which do not require him to come along. I've had dh, or a friend, or his aunt come along to stay with him while going to an appointment, for instance. Other times, I go when dh stays home with him, or dh just meets us at the destination for a quick child watch. Or ds has stayed with a friend, or his aunt, during appointments/errands.

Generally, the HALT theory helps to inform me about underlying needs. Bringing along snacks which she could eat while doing the errand, toys, music, portable DVD player, books, etc. Also, bubbles and piggy back rides are never refused here for excitement. I understand the difficulty with bringing two small children who don't want to walk the distance, with the limitation on stroller access. Those issues sound frustrating. Also, could the person you were meeting perhaps, come down for the paper exchange? I've done that a few times, by calling with a sleeping child in the car, for example. The person just ran down and helped me out.

Planning this type of errand early in the day is my most effective strategy, after protein, with snacks and a fun stop on the way home.

HTH, Pat

(Btw, we are asked to take CL specific questions to the CL tribe or yahoogroup.)

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by WuWei

What did she want to do "at home"? I'd probably plan a way to have fun within the errands, perhaps, meeting the needs for physical activity beforehand. Are there resources who could stay with the children, come along with you to do child watching, take them somewhere while you ran the errands (such as to the park).

Ds doesn't always want to go on a planned (by me) outing or errand. I find other ways to meet my need which do not require him to come along. I've had dh, or a friend, or his aunt come along to stay with him while going to an appointment, for instance. Other times, I go when dh stays home with him, or dh just meets us at the destination for a quick child watch. Or ds has stayed with a friend, or his aunt, during appointments/errands.

Generally, the HALT theory helps to inform me about underlying needs. Bringing along snacks which she could eat while doing the errand, toys, music, portable DVD player, books, etc. Also, bubbles and piggy back rides are never refused here for excitement. I understand the difficulty with bringing two small children who don't want to walk the distance, with the limitation on stroller access. Those issues sound frustrating. Also, could the person you were meeting perhaps, come down for the paper exchange? I've done that a few times, by calling with a sleeping child in the car, for example. The person just ran down and helped me out.

Planning this type of errand early in the day is my most effective strategy, after protein, with snacks and a fun stop on the way home.

HTH, Pat

(Btw, we are asked to take CL specific questions to the CL tribe or yahoogroup.)

Nobody was available to help me watch the kids. I suppose I could have called up to the office, but it wasn't the sort of thing where I knew somebody and they'd be willing to lend a hand. I'm not sure I'd ever feel comfortable asking a total stranger to abandon his/her desk and come outdoors to do business with me.

Bubbles might have been a good distraction, I guess I ought to toss a bottle in the car. Piggy back definitely not, though -- my back was aching already and I had to wear DD2, no way was I picking up DD1 in any way, shape, or form today.

Snacks might have been good, although we did eat lunch right before leaving the house, so it would have had to have been something of a "treat" to tempt her... DD is on the heavier side so I don't like to go down that path, to be honest.

Anyway, I wish there was just some magic wand I could have waved to make everybody happy. Ultimately, nobody was. Well, except maybe for the baby, she was cool with whatever we did.

[chinaKat]

Oh, and guess this didn't *have* to be a CL question... basically I wanted an idea as to how I could have achieved my goal without using brute force.

I probably would have even settled for brute force today (i.e. just carrying both kids up the steps and being done with it) but considering my back it was out of the question.

[theirmomjayne]

I'm curious...what did you end up doing?

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by theirmomjayne

I'm curious...what did you end up doing?

I went HOME, if you can believe it! :::

I have to say I was pretty pissed. The only thing I can say good about the situation is that I managed to keep my mood to myself, and didn't take it out on DD. It wasn't her fault, she's three, you know?

Still... leaving was not exactly optimal, after traveling all that way. Now I still have to take care of it tomorrow. Argh!

Juggling a 3 year old and an infant is way harder than I ever thought it would be, sometimes. Bleah.

[WuWei]

and then I had to go submit a request for some additional data, and I had to sign for that data in person

About everything can be handled with FAX as a legal representation of a signature. Is it possible that you could write out the request for the additional data, sign it and have someone FAX it for you tomorrow? (sending any identifying documentation with the FAX) You may need to get the FAX number from someone during working hours; and then send that on to dh, or whomever to handle. But...????


Pat

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by WuWei

About everything can be handled with FAX as a legal representation of a signature. Is it possible that you could write out the request for the additional data, sign it and have someone FAX it for you tomorrow? (sending any identifying documentation with the FAX) You may need to get the FAX number from someone during working hours; and then send that on to dh, or whomever to handle. But...????


Pat

Great idea, I'll check it out -- thanks!

[WuWei]

You could prepare a "fun pack" to take with you. We have a backpack that ds likes to take along. We have extra Thomas the train tattoos, sticker books, special colorful markers, fancy little notebooks, little 'ladybug' candies, a little photo album, new little "Go Diego Go" reader books, etc. I just put them up for novelty when we are going someplace that is not child-friendly. And some of the old favorites come along, so that ds has something fun to sort through and engage with while waiting. We usually avoid this type of situation; so the 'stuff' really isn't expected, it is just a delightful surprise, NOT a bribe held out "if you cooperate" type thing.

Oh, and some Rescue Remedy (pre-emptively) helps us all to cope with situations which arise more calmly.

Also, *connect* with her, rather than rush around before going. Do baby doll dress up with her, paint her fingernails, let her try on some of your "jewelry", have her choose a piece of inexpensive jewelry that she wears to show the "lady who is going to help mama". Or draw pictures together and put one in the envelope for the stranger who is going to do the paper processing. All of that will create a desire to work together, ime.

Having some place FUN to go afterwards helps the transition. Perhaps, stop by the library on the way home to pick up a Dora video, or whatever.

At 3, I never knew if I should tell ds what we had planned before setting out, because everything could be made fun. But, around age 4, he liked to anticipate 'what comes next'. So, mentioning 'we'll stop at the library' before I was ready to go to the library, could turn into "I want to go directly to the library!". Other times, it helped for him to see what we were doing led to something fun next. Moving from the most boring thing to gradually more exciting things helped, ime. Starting at the park, is hard. But, if you can do some physical activity before the 45 minute drive; or after arriving do some stretching, chasing, hopping, twirling to get some large muscle movement before going up to the meeting could help. But, again, connecting along the way, keeps us on the same agenda. Perhaps, singing in the car, looking for doggies together along the way, having a little picnic (blanket, special cups, etc.) before the meeting, etc.

There are infinite possibilities.


HTH, Pat

[chinaKat]

Pat, I love the fact that you are so good at thinking creatively and preemptively about your parenting. I wish you were *my* mom, you sound like so much fun!!!

Sometimes I have it together enough to do the whole "fun pack", the connection, the build-up. Sometimes our adventures really ARE just that - big fun adventures.

And then, sometimes, not so much. Sometimes (especially now that I have two) just getting them out of the house and into the carseats takes all of my energy. Sometimes I just have to get stuff done.

As you might imagine, my parenting comes off way better in the first case.

I really wish I could be so "on" all the time. But seriously, some days I'm just trying to pull through the best that I can.

I appreciate the advice, I just keep trying to improve. Or at least not have a meltdown myself!

[chfriend]

chinaKat...I'm certainly not a perfect mother...I take a lot of inspiration from the NVC and CL folks as well. For me, your last line captures much of my take on parenting.

--> "I just keep trying to improve. Or at least not have a meltdown myself."

And it really helps me to read other people's ideas. I have two...dd1 was 3 when dd2 was born. I found whole new wells of patience during that time.

And I *really admire you* for bailing and going home rather than continuing when it wasn't working. That's always a struggle for me.

[Jescafa]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by dawncayden

What I would have done was:
'Mommy needs to do this errand, when we are done, what is something YOU would like to do?'
'Oh the park! Sure we can go there when we are finished here' 'When we get home you want me to read you 5 books! Alright! When we get home I'll read you 5 books'

Isn't that bribing? Is that really part of Consensual Living? That's a sincere question; I'm new to this. I think I would have felt kind of depressed if I'd had to resort to that--like the only way we could get through it was to mutually manipulate each other.

I'd probably have done something like the "wait it out" strategy, though I wonder how "consensual" that is, too. I like that it's not punitive, but it's still pretty clear who has the control. I might worry somewhat about what kind of behavior I was modeling--wouldn't want the little dear to use that same strategy on me some day!