What if you were uncomfortable with.. - Page 8

[KBecks]

Originally Posted by Nature

So are you one of those people that call CPS on a mama in the parking lot for snapping loudly at her 3 yo because she's had a very rough day? Do you routinely take a snapshot picture of a family and base your judgments entirely on that?

No. I am not one of "those people". I have never called CPS, but I would not hesitate to if I felt it was necessary in order to help a child be safe.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by Nature

So are you one of those people that call CPS on a mama in the parking lot for snapping loudly at her 3 yo because she's had a very rough day? Do you routinely take a snapshot picture of a family and base your judgments entirely on that?

I don't think that this qualifies as a snapshot, and certainly not like seeing someone frustrated with a child for a moment.

What does the OP need to see in order to justify her feelings? Maybe if he'd put his hand up her shirt, or maybe slipped his hand down her pants? How obvious does it need to be before it's ok to feel creeped out and take action? How many times would you suspect someone that you think that you know of being a child molester? It's not likely that you'd think that about anyone that you know, or think that you know, or are related to, or that your children visit regularly. Especially not if you're looking for "proof" of which there is usually very little of in public situations. Statistics are scary.....1 in 4 girls and fewer, but a significant number of boys will be sexually abused before adulthood. So, we know these abusers, we work with them, they teach our children, we live next to them, we may even have them in our families, homes or beds.

And the OP said that the girl DID seem uncomfortable. The mother didn't seem uncomfortable. If I wouldn't let my child go from my lap during a get together and it was for a reason, I'd state the reason "you're not feeling well, why don't you rest a bit" or "You're grounded" Not "why don't you hang out on my lap for awhile"

My husband is affectionate to our children, but he wouldn't ever force a child to sit on his lap and neither would I. When our children don't want tickles touches or kisses, they only have to say once. Even our 2 year old.
Lisa

[Nature]

Originally Posted by lisa49

I don't think that this qualifies as a snapshot, and certainly not like seeing someone frustrated with a child for a moment.

What does the OP need to see in order to justify her feelings? Maybe if he'd put his hand up her shirt, or maybe slipped his hand down her pants? How obvious does it need to be before it's ok to feel creeped out and take action? How many times would you suspect someone that you think that you know of being a child molester? It's not likely that you'd think that about anyone that you know, or think that you know, or are related to, or that your children visit regularly. Especially not if you're looking for "proof" of which there is usually very little of in public situations. Statistics are scary.....1 in 4 girls and fewer, but a significant number of boys will be sexually abused before adulthood. So, we know these abusers, we work with them, they teach our children, we live next to them, we may even have them in our families, homes or beds.

And the OP said that the girl DID seem uncomfortable. The mother didn't seem uncomfortable. If I wouldn't let my child go from my lap during a get together and it was for a reason, I'd state the reason "you're not feeling well, why don't you rest a bit" or "You're grounded" Not "why don't you hang out on my lap for awhile"

My husband is affectionate to our children, but he wouldn't ever force a child to sit on his lap and neither would I. When our children don't want tickles touches or kisses, they only have to say once. Even our 2 year old.
Lisa

This seems odd to me. Why must I explain myself to other people I dont even know and tell them why my child is "hanging out with me." In fact, I HAVE said that very same thing when my daughter was being restricted from playing, sick, or for other reasons I did not want them playing with other kids. In fact, once it was because I didn't approve of how the other children were playing and didn't want my daughter around it. Rather than be rude and "explain" my reasons to the parents I barely knew, I just asked her to "hang out with me" instead. A few kisses on the head and my arms around her and suddenly I'm a pedophile? : And just because the OP said the girl looked uncomfortable doesn't mean she actually WAS. Maybe she had gas, or a toothache. Does the OP really even know?? No. She doesn't.

I'm sorry, a feeling just isn't enough to go on by a snapshot. And yes, thats what this was. Simply a snapshot out of the life of a family she doesn't even know at all, and obviously refuses to try to get to know further.

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Originally Posted by Nature

I'm sorry, a feeling just isn't enough to go on by a snapshot. And yes, thats what this was. Simply a snapshot out of the life of a family she doesn't even know at all, and obviously refuses to try to get to know further.

I don't refuse to get to know them. Not at all. I DO refuse to let my child go inside their house though. My daughter cannot babysit for them, and the other's children will not be allowed to go into their house to play with their child. We ARE making that decision based on what we saw and felt when we met them. Even after less than two hours, we had already made that decision.

I also would not be at all surprised if they chose not to let their child play inside our homes. I wouldn't blame them a bit!

[Demeter9]

No matter how much people scream about how this is judgemental, the fact remains that bad people manage to take advantage of people because THEY REFUSE TO ACT ON WHAT THEY SEE AND KNOW. People push away knowledge because it is too terrible to be wrong, or to be right.

Almost every molester has been caught and suspected LONG before anything was ever done about them. People are so willing to not judge that they forget that where you see the floating ice the iceberg is just below the surface.

If you see one cockroach, and everyone else sees one cockroach, but you all agree that it just too premature to make the assumption that the cockroaches indicate a problem because how can you all judge when all of you has just seen one roach....... And that is EXACTLY how this sort of person gets away with the things they do.

Do not be afraid to use your brain. No matter how many people may lecture you on it. Be willing to consider that you are wrong. But call the exterminators anyway.

[GuildJenn]

I just wanted to say I think it's a hard situation. I totally support you OP in protecting your own kids, and I think your instincts are important and there for a purpose that way. I do not consider making those kinds of judgment calls - who my kid will be around - to be anything but a personal choice.

I do think the talking about it with everyone is a little iffy. For me, if I felt strongly enough to talk to a neighbour about her kid's safely, I would probably call CAS. They are not perfect but up here anyway, they often are able to investigate complaints quietly and without drama.. and even if they miss something, often it's a strong message to the child later on, that at least someone else found that things were not "normal." I have called CAS once (in that case there were clear signs of physical abuse) and had a family member be investigated (and cleared), so that's my experience with them.

On the other hand, I do have to say that I personally would not like the "must hang out with neighbours drinking" thing. I have nothing against neighbours or drinking or neighbours drinking, but I am the kind of person who needs a while to warm up before getting pushed to hang out. I would not have found that respectful of me.

If you hadn't provided those details I would be more sure that you should call, but it kind of seems to me that you have a strong sense of what is acceptable behaviour that isn't quite in line with my own. Not that I am the decider.

[silver_bird123456]

Please, please, please do something to help this child.

So many people are saying it: many, many abusers get away with it because, everyone thinks, I don't know enough or someone else will do it.

Your inution can be enough, I would definitly take what you've said as a referal. There seem so many werid little things.

To be honset it sounds as if many of your neighbours are part wondering anyway, so really I wouldn't worry so much about stigmatising.

If you decided to wait and see, what are you wating for? If you do this please set yourself some sort of deadline, like if I still feel his behaviour is creepy after X weeks I will make a referal. Don't keep waiting for incotraverable proof, you may never see it.

Don't be a neighbourhood full of people saying years later, I always knew he was a werid one. Be the one who did something.

[queenjane]

My opinion is that if you get a creepy vibe from someone, its likely for a good reason. Does that mean the neighbor is molesting his child? No. But i would bet there is *something* off there, if soooo many people got a weird vibe.

I'm really surprised at so many people suggesting this mother not judge the situation based upon her instincts. i have a neighbor who is creepy....he just weirds me out, he has my whole childhood. Do i think he molested his children? No, probably not...but he's still weird, and it actually wouldnt surprise me at all to find there was some iffy family dynamics going on.

It makes me : to see what was described by the OP, dismissed as "oh, so if i'm affectionate with my kid in public, then i'm a pedophile??"....I have a son who just turned 11. We are a VERY affectionate family....if i saw something similar, with a man who has only been this child's father figure for three years, and every single person present thought it was strange, and got a creep vibe, yes...i would think it was off in some way. It simply isnt normal for a parent to have his hands on his 10 yr old child, for a solid hour and a half, even when she asks to go play with other kids, or sit down seperate from him.

That being said, i dont really think there is much you can do, other than trying to befriend the little girl and helping her feel that you are a "safe" person she can confide in if necessary. I dont think calling CPS will help...you dont have any evidence. It would likely just make the family close up more and give you less of a chance to find anything out. Just keep your eyes open.

Oh, and the other neighbor girl coming from their house....huge red flag. It might be nothing at all, totally innocent, or it could be grooming behavior. Enough of these "totally innocent" situations could ultimately add up to something more.


Katherine

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Nature

Would a creepy feeling be enough for a mandatory reporter? No. Not likely. Feelings, thoughts and hunches are simply not enough. And with good reason! People everywhere would be reporting everyone.

There are many other signs you can look for if you suspect sexual abuse. The FIRST thing I'd do is try to get to know the family. You can't very well see whats going on if you stay 5 houses away and only whisper about them to each other.

I agree, get involved! That doesn't mean get the authorities involved.
It means YOU.

As a teacher, I am a mandated reporter. I've been to the trainings. It was drilled into my head that if I had ANY suspicion for ANY reason, I was mandated to report it. If I did not report it, I could be held legally libel. There were certainly many more red flags indicated here besides a "creepy feeling," anyways. Attitudes like this are why so many children have had to live with abuse. No one wants to risk "being wrong" or "getting involved." By reporting the facts to CPS, you are not accusing someone. You are saying, this was some concerning behavior. You give the facts. They decide what to do with it, and whether or not it warrants a visit. If you then gain other concilliatory evidence, you can again call and give those facts. Sometimes one report is not enough, but when there are several different reports an investigation can occur. There may already be a case against this family, and one more "red flag" can give someone the authority to act or open an investigation.

[Sarahbunny]

Wow.

If you were getting a bad vibe, I say go with your instincts. Which we, as women, routinely ignore so as to look polite/nice/neighborly.

You are the one who was there. If you feel something inappropriate was going on, you should take some sort of action.

Maybe invite them over for dinner and see if you still get a strange feeling?

Frankly, and I am sure I will get flamed, if I felt as strongly as you seem to in your op, I would call cps and make an inquiry or report.

[Nature]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

I don't refuse to get to know them. Not at all. I DO refuse to let my child go inside their house though. My daughter cannot babysit for them, and the other's children will not be allowed to go into their house to play with their child. We ARE making that decision based on what we saw and felt when we met them. Even after less than two hours, we had already made that decision.

I also would not be at all surprised if they chose not to let their child play inside our homes. I wouldn't blame them a bit!

But see, I don't think keeping your child from their house or not letting your child babysit for them is the wrong choice! I think thats a very personal choice, and one that you CAN make based on a snapshot one time thing. YOU were uncomfortable with what you saw and because of that you will not allow your child in their house. No one is saying thats a bad thing at all.

The judgment after only a few hours with these people that extends to talking with the neighbors about it, all but implicating him in the missing girl from the neighborhood, etc.. are what I have a problem with. Not you deciding to keep your own children away. One decision impacts you and your family only. The other impacts him and his family as well.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by Nature

The judgment after only a few hours with these people that extends to talking with the neighbors about it, all but implicating him in the missing girl from the neighborhood, etc.. are what I have a problem with..

But why? It makes perfect sense to me....a new family moves into (what seems to be)a close-knit neighborhood, and the first interaction with the people leaves not only the OP but most of the other neighbors with a weird vibe that something is not quite right with the stepfather.

Then a little girl who is exactly the same age as the other girl goes missing for quite some time and can't be found. And you think its jumping to conclusions for the OP to say "Well, that new neighbor guy is kinda creepy so keep your eyes open" (not sure exactly what she said i just know what *I* would say)...and then, that very child comes from the the stepfather's house at 7am with a toy?! So...the OP wasnt jumping to conclusions after all was she? *Because the little girl was there!!*

Is there a simple, more innocent reason? Maybe. Maybe not. I didnt seem to me that the OP was going door to door telling neighbors that New Guy is a pedophile. But if it were MY daughter that was missing, i'd sure like to know if a neighbor was raising red flags, because that would then be the first place i'd look.

Thats great that you think its fine for the OP to not let her girls go over to that house. What about another mom on the street, who may not have met the stepfather? What about her daughter? Does the OP have any responsibility to that mother to say "Hey, just to let you know, i don't let my daughters go over there."? Or should she just not worry about other peoples' kids?


Katherine

[kblackstone444]

Would you rather risk having CPS come to a house and investigate and then find nothing or would you rather risk having a little girl molested (which in many cases escaates to rape) and nobody saying anything? Which is the worst evil? Which do you think the little girl would say the lesser evil is?

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Originally Posted by Nature

The judgment after only a few hours with these people that extends to talking with the neighbors about it, all but implicating him in the missing girl from the neighborhood, etc.. are what I have a problem with. Not you deciding to keep your own children away. One decision impacts you and your family only. The other impacts him and his family as well.

I didn't say anything about him UNTIL she came out of their house WITH a skateboard that she claims HE let her borrow. The neighbor girl didn't say the new girl let her borrow it, she said the new girl's DAD let her borrow it. Then she went in her house. THAT is when I told her he gives me the willies. Other than that one time, I never said anything to anyone who wasn't standing around the fire pit and watched exactly what I watched. I haven't gone to the other neighbors. In fact, it never occured to me to suspect the new guy would have anything to do with the missing neigbor girl (because she does this type of thing all the time) until she came out of their house.

[cycle]

I think your initial gut feeling and now this "coincidence" with the missing neighbor girl coming from their garage at 7:00 am with a skateboard that the dad let her borrow. I think something is screaming at you to listen. If I was as uncomfortable as you described in your OP and now this, I think I would call. I know thats not going to be a popular opinion, but I would rather risk being wrong than risk the girl being victimized further.

[l_olive]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

About that time, she came riding down the road on a skateboard, but it wasn't her skateboard. When her mom asked her where she got the skateboard, she said "Katies Dad said I could use it". (Katie is the new girl) *not her real name btw*

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

I warned ONE neighbor who's ten year old daughter was inside his home at 7:00 a.m in the morning three days after they moved in. Obviously, the child shouldn't have been out of her home, but she was, AND she was inside HIS home.

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

I didn't say anything about him UNTIL she came out of their house WITH a skateboard that she claims HE let her borrow. The neighbor girl didn't say the new girl let her borrow it, she said the new girl's DAD let her borrow it. Then she went in her house. THAT is when I told her he gives me the willies. Other than that one time, I never said anything to anyone who wasn't standing around the fire pit and watched exactly what I watched. I haven't gone to the other neighbors. In fact, it never occured to me to suspect the new guy would have anything to do with the missing neigbor girl (because she does this type of thing all the time) until she came out of their house.

I'm just trying to figure this one part out. In your first mention of the "missing" girl, you simply say that she came down the street on the new skateboard.

At what point exactly was she in the new family's house? Did you see her leave their house as your next two posts imply? At 7 a.m.? Or is it possible that she there the previous day with the whole family present? Or is it possible that she was never in the home, and just made up the story that she had cleared her "borrowing" of the skateboard? You have mentioned that she is known to be rather troubled afterall.

This is a pretty damning piece of your story against the new step-dad, and I just want to be clear on what you actually KNOW to be fact.

[Nature]

Originally Posted by queenjane

But why? It makes perfect sense to me....a new family moves into (what seems to be)a close-knit neighborhood, and the first interaction with the people leaves not only the OP but most of the other neighbors with a weird vibe that something is not quite right with the stepfather.

Then a little girl who is exactly the same age as the other girl goes missing for quite some time and can't be found. And you think its jumping to conclusions for the OP to say "Well, that new neighbor guy is kinda creepy so keep your eyes open" (not sure exactly what she said i just know what *I* would say)...and then, that very child comes from the the stepfather's house at 7am with a toy?! So...the OP wasnt jumping to conclusions after all was she? *Because the little girl was there!!*

Is there a simple, more innocent reason? Maybe. Maybe not. I didnt seem to me that the OP was going door to door telling neighbors that New Guy is a pedophile. But if it were MY daughter that was missing, i'd sure like to know if a neighbor was raising red flags, because that would then be the first place i'd look.

Thats great that you think its fine for the OP to not let her girls go over to that house. What about another mom on the street, who may not have met the stepfather? What about her daughter? Does the OP have any responsibility to that mother to say "Hey, just to let you know, i don't let my daughters go over there."? Or should she just not worry about other peoples' kids?


Katherine

I don't think parents should let their children play at peoples houses they don't know in the first place. Neighbor or not, NONE of the people int he neighborhood know these people so they *should* be wary. normal wary

Do people normally let their children play at other peoples houses when they haven't met the parents first and gotten to know them? Because I know I don't.

Personally, I'd be more concerned why the girl was out at night, or missing until 7 am. I'd be more concerned about why the parents are not protecting their child. How is the new neighbor supposed to know the child isn't supposed to be there? She shows up at his house.. maybe he's wondering why in the world some parents don't watch their children? She asks to use the skateboard, the father.. not wanting to seem rude, says yes. Or she asks the girl and the girl says its up to her dad, and then he says yes.

I can see a million scenarios that don't involve pedophilia or illegal activity.

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Originally Posted by l_olive

I'm just trying to figure this one part out. In your first mention of the "missing" girl, you simply say that she came down the street on the new skateboard.

At what point exactly was she in the new family's house? Did you see her leave their house as your next two posts imply? At 7 a.m.? Or is it possible that she there the previous day with the whole family present? Or is it possible that she was never in the home, and just made up the story that she had cleared her "borrowing" of the skateboard? You have mentioned that she is known to be rather troubled afterall.

This is a pretty damning piece of your story against the new step-dad, and I just want to be clear on what you actually KNOW to be fact.

No. I did not see her coming out of the house. And YES, it is entirely possible that she made up the story about being in the house. She DID come from the area of the house, but we didn't see her actually come out of the door. She HAD snuck out either in the night or early in the morning. She DID have their skateboard, AND she knew the neighbor girl's name, even though her mother had never heard of the new girl before.

As I said, this neighbor girl escapes occasionally. She gets in trouble constantly, she is completely unsupervised at home, and that is why she can leave so easily. There isn't even a screen on her window, and her window is in the front of the house.

So, the part about her being "missing" was not a suprise. But, I was surprised when she said "Katies dad let me borrow this". So, since she knew the new girl's name, had apparently been out most of the night, and had their skateboard, I will assume she was telling the truth. She doesn't lie very often.. she pretty much just tells you what is on her mind, even if it is shocking and innapropriate . But, it is not out of the realm of possibility either. I don't think she would steal the skateboard though.

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Originally Posted by Nature

Personally, I'd be more concerned why the girl was out at night, or missing until 7 am. I'd be more concerned about why the parents are not protecting their child.

I will never understand this either. That, and she is NOTHING like a ten year old. She is both incredibly immature, and incredibly mature all at the same time. They allow her to do things my 15 year old isn't allowed to do yet.

[Houdini]

Originally Posted by Demeter9

Almost every molester has been caught and suspected LONG before anything was ever done about them.

Interested to see the stats on this statement.