What if you were uncomfortable with.. - Page 5

[karina5]

Originally Posted by Nature

Well where I was taught, and according to all the mandated reporters over my lifetime I've spoken with.. it is NOT. Perhaps we have different teachers or experiences.

I was taught that you do have to use your good judgment. Obviously if somebody is calling CPS every day w/ some suspicion, not only are they not a good mandated reporter, but won't be taken seriously at some point.

But yes, you can and should use your judgment to discern those "gray area" situations - and I think what is described in the OP is a perfect example.

[Nature]

Originally Posted by jdedmom

I would agree with you if it were other forms of abuse but how likely is it that she would see signs of sexual abuse. Can you explain the signs she could look for?

Which is why I said to get involved. From the outside looking in you might not see much, but from a better vantage point you might see more that would either put her at ease, or warrant more immediate action.

Just google signs of sexual abuse and you can find a million websites. Some things are there now, sure. Like the possible isolation. But it could be that they're new, or that she's grounded, or that she has special needs. My point being, the family hasn't been around that long. Give them a chance to get to know them before condemning them. Its not as if you watched him molest the girl in front of you, or you watched him beat her. I know we all want to save children from horrible abuse, but sometimes there isn't any.

Where you see no harm in coming from calling CPS, I see great harm there. I would much rather be sure before I did something like that. However I would make every effort to get involved in their life. Being another pair of eyes won't hurt, and yet you'll be able to see more.

I had a neighbor a few years ago that I didn't like much. I didn't like her because she seemed like a horrible parent. She screamed at her kids. She spanked them. She was downright nasty to them sometimes. She didn't beat them or molest them, but many people would have called CPS on her if they heard her. Instead, I decided to befriend her. After friendship was established, I came to really like her. I realized she had no role model for parenting. A severe learning disorder kept her from learning about parenting in other ways like books or classes. She also had a mood disorder that wasn't being helped by having so many children so close in age.

I was able to be her friend and open up a dialouge about parenting. I was able to model parenting for her, and show her a gentler more respectful way. I was able to be honest with her and admit to her the times that I messed up, and how it made me feel. She was able to open up to me and trust me because she didn't feel judged.

Today, she's a better parent and a good friend. It was accomplished without CPS involvement.

No, its not sexual abuse. But you don't really know thats whats going on either. My point is, there are other ways to help.. especially if you aren't even sure.

A mandated reporter that sees children in a professional capacity maybe, obviously can't get personally involved with the clients like that. If they suspect, and have a strong reason to call CPS then they should. However we aren't talking about a professional capacity here. We're talking about neighbors. I believe that we can help out people if we just extend ourselves a little bit.

[karina5]

I'm doing some research, Nature, and looks like hunches and suspicions are reason to report. It says over and over again, "reasonable suspicion" and I remember in my training that they elaborated that not every person's idea of "reasonable suspicion" is the same, but if *you* think something is suspicious you should call.

http://www.capcsac.org/laws

"Reasonable Suspicion" occurs when "it is objectively reasonable for a person to entertain such a suspicion, when based upon the facts that could cause a reasonable person in a like position, drawing when appropriate on his or her training and experience, to suspect child abuse." (California Penal Code 11166[a])

http://www.westchestergov.com/ptk/Mandated.htm

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2002/olrdata/j...002-r-0528.htm


http://www.ocfs.state.ny.us/main/pub...ub1159text.asp
Reasonable Cause to Suspect
Reasonable cause to suspect child abuse or maltreatment means that, based on your rational observations, professional training and experience, you have a suspicion that the parent or other person legally responsible for a child is responsible for harming that child or placing that child in imminent danger of harm.



ETA: Personally, I agree that calling CPS may do more harm than good. I'm not sure what the answer is, but just saying it is okay to call based on your good faith suspicions.

[jdedmom]

Nature,

I was sexually abused by several men when I was a child. There were no signs. I was happy, healthy and normal. I didn't even understand what was happening to me.

I appreciate what your saying but while your getting to know a family enough to decide if the stepdad is sexually abusing a child that child could be victimized over and over and over and over.

Isolation in itself wouldn't cause me concern of sexual abuse but the combination from the op case would be clear to me maybe something is not right.

I am very sorry about your history of sexual abuse

[jdedmom]

I never said I didn't see the harm in calling CPS. To me it is the lesser of two evils if a child is being abused.

[Nature]

Originally Posted by jdedmom

I never said I didn't see the harm in calling CPS. To me it is the lesser of two evils if a child is being abused.

And thats kinda where the grey area comes in where you have to trust your own judgment. There is no doubt that the behavior is creepy. Being a survivor I often can "feel" creepy people like that based on nothing but that feeling. I trust intuition.

I only wanted to point out that its possible to help out without CPS. Or at least possible to get to know them further to see. Personally thats what I would do, but then.. I've been on the other side of the coin as well. I've seen how much damage CPS can do, even without substantiated abuse or neglect.

Basically, it just sucks all around. If the step father is gulity of it, its still going to cause major changes for the family. For the best of course. But then the child still has to deal with the impact of being abused. Provided that he's truelly guilty and not falsely accused.

However even if he's found not guilty, the family will most likely be traumatized by the investigation process itself. Its one of those situations where its hard to come out unscathed.

[BusyMommy]

Originally Posted by townmouse

I can see either possibility, myself. Pedophile or protective.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by hanno

legally innocent yes, but even an investigation would make him suspected and the recipient of uncomfortable stares
who do you think will invite the 'suspected child abuser' to the next barbecue? or let their kid have a sleepover at him house?

His actions are making him suspected and the recipient of uncomfortable stares. People are already thinking they don't want this guy around. and I doubt anyone would let their child sleep over.

[mclisa]

I would report it. I know CPS gets a bad rap around here, but it can do some good. Just be prepared with as much detail as you can (what you saw exactly, the address of where they live, a phone number if you have it, his name, the mom's name, the child's name.)


Can you tell I've done this before?


The more you can give them, the better.

[KBecks]

Originally Posted by Nature

Why? Some step fathers are more involved than biological fathers, and some step fathers have been in the childs life for as long as they can remember. I realize this child has not known the step father for as long, but still. Thats a blanket statement that seems odd to me.
.

We're not talking about ALL stepfathers or ANY stepfather or anyone's husband or stepfather, we're talking about THIS PARTICULAR stepfather's behavior, which is raising red flags. Let's stay focused.

(And, some predators date or marry single mothers for the sole purpose of getting at the kids. I don't call those people fathers, though!)

Nextcommercial, I thought of two possible resources -- you could call a children's hospital and ask them for a the name of a good sexual abuse investigator or counselor, or call your district attorney's office and ask them for who they know who is an expert in this kind of thing.

I'd just say that you saw some behavior toward a child that raised red flags but that you want to get the advice of someone who is an expert as to what, if anything, should be done about it. Explain you don't want to cause a family trouble, but that you also don't want to dismiss your concerns without consulting someone who has a lot of experience in this area.

[Nature]

Originally Posted by KBecks

We're not talking about ALL stepfathers or ANY stepfather or anyone's husband or stepfather, we're talking about THIS PARTICULAR stepfather's behavior, which is raising red flags. Let's stay focused.

(And, some predators date or marry single mothers for the sole purpose of getting at the kids. I don't call those people fathers, though!)

Nextcommercial, I thought of two possible resources -- you could call a children's hospital and ask them for a the name of a good sexual abuse investigator or counselor, or call your district attorney's office and ask them for who they know who is an expert in this kind of thing.

I'd just say that you saw some behavior toward a child that raised red flags but that you want to get the advice of someone who is an expert as to what, if anything, should be done about it. Explain you don't want to cause a family trouble, but that you also don't want to dismiss your concerns without consulting someone who has a lot of experience in this area.

The way it was written it seemed like a blanket statement about step fathers and showing affection. I apologise if it wasn't meant that way. As a blended family, I can honestly say.. my daughters step father is far more loving and affectionate towards her than her biological father is. They just have different personalities and my dd is closer to her step father.

I think those are good ideas you posted. Though likely they will suggest calling CPS because its usually what most people, even professionals jump to. However, finding someone else to talk to about this is a good idea.

[KBecks]

This may be a longshot, but you could email Gavin deBecker, the author of Protecting the Gift (a must read, by the way), and ask for help there. Or, I'd also even consider emailing Dr. Phil, not that you are going on the show, but I imagine that if your email gets through they will help you because they care about protecting kids. (Do I sound crazy for suggesting that? I just think its important to reach out and find help.)

https://www.gavindebecker.com/contact.cfm

Again, I wish you the best that you find someone qualified to talk to about this and who can help you professionally assess what you saw.

[KBecks]

Originally Posted by Nature

I think those are good ideas you posted. Though likely they will suggest calling CPS because its usually what most people, even professionals jump to. However, finding someone else to talk to about this is a good idea.

I hope that if its recommended that the OP goes to CPS or the police, then hopefully the third party she talks to might have contacts to get a particularly talented / compassionate investigator.

[nextcommercial]

Well, It may already be an issue with the police. (I left, so I don't know the details yet)

I went outside this morning, and another mom from the block was outside. Mom was looking for her ten year old daughter. Her dd had disappeared again. She has a lot of problems, and tends to take off a lot. But, since this was early in the morning (7:30 am), and her bedroom window was open, she had obviously snuck out last night some time. (they need to lock this kid's windows)

The police had been called, but hadn't gotten there yet.

About that time, she came riding down the road on a skateboard, but it wasn't her skateboard. When her mom asked her where she got the skateboard, she said "Katies Dad said I could use it". (Katie is the new girl) *not her real name btw*

So, after sending her dd in the house, I explained what the other neighbors and I had seen the other night. (this family wasn't there last week) I told her that if she needed me to tell the police what we thought about him to come get me, and I was sure the other neighbors would also be willing to talk to them too.

I left an hour later, and I haven't heard anything yet. So, we will see what happens.

[jdedmom]

Are you saying the 10yo was possibly gone all night?! OMG i'd be freaking out, about the possible predator but also a ten year old that just leaves the house like that. I'll say that parent has issues that need to be handled above and beyond a potential child abuser.

[ChristineIndy]

[QUOTE=KBecks;9698593]

Originally Posted by Viewfinder

I'll add that if you called an investigation on my innocent family, I would be OK, I would be shocked, etc., but I would value your concern for the well being of my children.

If you end up calling an investigation and nothing is found, then you offer a sincere apology and bake them some cookies and get on with life. Don't worry aobut the embarassment of possibly making a false call, worry about THE GIRL'S SAFETY. Trust that people with training will do an effective job of working out their investigation and coming to a conclusion. It's not your job to have to prove that abuse is occurring, you are doing your job by being a caring and concerned neighbor who noticed and is paying attention to the red flags you saw and felt.

I'd also not worry about the "what ifs". Right now you deal with the facts of what you saw. Those facts support your questioning of what is going on between this stepdad and 10 year old girl.

I agree with this (except the cookie baking - I'd hope your reporting would be anonymous!)

[ChristineIndy]

Originally Posted by lisa49

I want to add that my mother also knew that I was being abused. Don't assume that if mom's ok with whatever is going on, then nothing's going on.

Heck, neighbors, teachers, friends and family all knew it was going on. CPS visited me several times in school. By the time I realized that all the system could do was to piss him off and embarrass me, I finally stopped telling until I was 16 and just left.

Later, though, I was very touched to realize that so many neighbors and friends of parents were trying to help. Family never tried to help at all, so I guess neighbors are all some kids can hope for.

Lisa

I just wanted to say that I am so very sorry this happened to you.

[ChristineIndy]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

Well, It may already be an issue with the police. (I left, so I don't know the details yet)

I went outside this morning, and another mom from the block was outside. Mom was looking for her ten year old daughter. Her dd had disappeared again. She has a lot of problems, and tends to take off a lot. But, since this was early in the morning (7:30 am), and her bedroom window was open, she had obviously snuck out last night some time. (they need to lock this kid's windows)

The police had been called, but hadn't gotten there yet.

About that time, she came riding down the road on a skateboard, but it wasn't her skateboard. When her mom asked her where she got the skateboard, she said "Katies Dad said I could use it". (Katie is the new girl) *not her real name btw*

So, after sending her dd in the house, I explained what the other neighbors and I had seen the other night. (this family wasn't there last week) I told her that if she needed me to tell the police what we thought about him to come get me, and I was sure the other neighbors would also be willing to talk to them too.

I left an hour later, and I haven't heard anything yet. So, we will see what happens.

That sounds worrying for several families, on several fronts. : I hope it all turned out okay . . .

[Houdini]

Honestly....sounds like the neighbors have already concluded he is a molester.....warning each other about his 'creepy behavior.' Hopefully, you aren't wrong b/c that image won't leave someone's head just b/c he is shown to be a loving step-dad.

He could be off, but the whole tell the neighbors based on nothing more than a gut feeling leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

It seems to me that most molesters don't openingly advertise themselves. If he was a pedophile, then it seems he wouldn't be so open around everyone.

I would be more concerned for the ones that don't seem to fit the profile. The ones that no one would ever suspect.

[KBecks]

OP, I still think YOU need to make a call to someone to ask for advice about the red flags with the daughter.

I see the missing neighbor girl as a mostly separate issue, unless she reports the stepdad was inappropriate with her. The police were called on her behalf because she was missing, and then she was found, so that's kind of a closed deal.

The stepdad-daughter thing isn't connected to that (in terms of police) and you still need to get advice on whether it should be investigated based on what you saw.

I would agree with others who say you should focus on working with authorities vs. discussing these concerns with the neighbors. I think it was right to let your neighbor know though, in case the stepdad was inappropriate with the girl. However, I doubt it would be that right now. IF he were a molester it's unlikely he would do anything right away, KWIM

Hugs and good luck. Call someone who can help you work this out.