Jesus: God or prophet?

[Summertime Mommy]

I am writing a term paper on this topic for my New Testament class, and I am looking for some good information, but have really yet to find any that is unbiased either way, (of course I doubt that many people can be unbiased on this issue) so I thought maybe I could enlist some help. Based on the writings on the New Testament what do you think: are Jesus and God one and the same or was he just a great prophet?

[CherryBomb]

Considering He said over and over that He was God...I believe He was God.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jes..._divinity.html

[FLDoula]

I don't think that Jesus was God. I believe that he was God's son sent to the world to provide a ransom for all. Not wanting to start a debate, just a different opinion. He said "The father is greater than I" and "I am assending to my God and your God, my Father and your Father." And the fact that "no one can see God and yet live" makes me understand that Jesus could not have been God because those people could not live if they had seen God himself. And that the bible says that God cannot die, yet Jesus was dead for three days.

Just my thoughts.............I am sure you will get lots of opinions and thoughts

[christianmomof3]

There are some good online books that show that Jesus is God - on this site http://www.ministrybooks.org/categories.cfm#xYPx
under the category Young People - Lesson Book 2 - The Triune God is good, and lesson 2 within that book is very good to look at.
Here are a few quotes from that book:

John 14 clearly says that the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son (vv. 10-11). To see the Son is to see the Father. When the Son speaks, it is the Father who is working. The Two are inseparable.

Also, on that same site under the title "booklets" is a booklet titiled "Christ is God" which is good.
And there are three books listed under the sub-heading "The Triune God" which you also may find helpful. This quote is from one called "Concerning the Triune God":

1. The Father is the source (13:3), the God whom no man has seen at any time (1:18; 5:37). All that He has is in the Son (16:15), He is expressed in the Son (14:7-11), and He does His works in the Son (14:10). He is the One hidden within, and the Son is the One manifested without; yet the One who is manifested without is the One who is hidden within—the two are just one (10:30)! Oh, how mysterious!

2. The Son is the expression (1:18). He is the God who was from the beginning and who was with God (1:1-2), equal with God (5:18, 23), one with the Father (10:30), come out from God (13:3; 7:29) to express the Father (14:8-9) and live by the Father (6:57), and finally in the flesh (1:14) as the Lamb of God (1:29) He was crucified and died, shedding His blood for redemption (19:34). After death and resurrection He became the Spirit breathed into the disciples (20:22). He became their life (10:10), and He became also the bread of life for them to eat and enjoy that they may live by Him (6:35, 57).

3. The Spirit is the entering in of the Son into us who believe in the Son to be in us the reality of the Son (14:16-20) and to communicate and impart to us all that He has received from the Son (16:13-15). The Father is in the Son (14:10-11), the Son became the Spirit for us to drink in as the water of life (7:37-39; 4:10, 14), and the Spirit comes into us and abides with us that we may enjoy the Son (14:17-18). The Spirit in us is the Son in us (14:17, 20; 17:23, 26). In this Spirit we are joined to the Triune God as one (17:21-23).

Thus, the Gospel of John shows us clearly that the Father is the source of all, the Son is the expression of the Father, and the Spirit is the coming in of the Son. In the heavens, where man cannot see, God is the Father; when He is expressed among men, He is the Son; and when He comes into men, He is the Spirit. The Father was expressed among men in the Son, and the Son became the Spirit to come into men. The Father is in the Son, and the Son became the Spirit—the three are just one God.

and also on that site - in the book titled "The Economy of God" - chapter one of it will be helpful as well.

[mamabadger]

Jesus frequently said that he was God, in a number of different ways. If that was not the case, it doesn't make him a great prophet, it makes him either a fraud or a nut case.

[lilyka]

Jesus never claimed to be a prophet. I guess one should define prophet. . . .I have never understood why people called him a prohphet. You don't believe he was God or the son of God. fine. but that doesn't make him a prophet.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

Jesus frequently said that he was God, in a number of different ways. If that was not the case, it doesn't make him a great prophet, it makes him either a fraud or a nut case.

This is where the "he's just a prohpet" or "just a great teacher" line of thinking totally loses me. If He wasn't God, then why did he say (over and over and over) that He was? He never said he was just a prophet or a teacher. If he wasn't God He was a total fruitcake, so why would you think he's a great teacher? David Koresh probably said some cool things, but he was still totally loopy and I certainly wouldn't call him a great teacher.

Jesus never claimed to be a prophet. I guess one should define prophet. . . .I have never understood why people called him a prohphet. You don't believe he was God or the son of God. fine. but that doesn't make him a prophet.

Exactly. I know Muslims believe he was a prophet. I'd like to hear more about why. Do they feel we've mistranslated the parts of the Gospel when He states He is God?

[zinemama]

I'm not really clear about how a bunch of random beliefs of people on the internet is going to help you write your term paper, but...

You are in an impossible position here, if that's your subject and you are supposed to come to a conclusion. Whether someone believes that Jesus is God is strictly and only a matter of faith. A Christian and I can look at any sort of "proof" you've got, and whatever the Bible says about the man, and the Christian is going to believe Jesus is God and I won't. Because that person has faith and believes that Jesus is God and I don't. It's entirely subjective.

Now, if you want to write about Jesus as he relates to the many other prophets of old and how his teaching aligns (or doesn't) with theirs, then you've got some meat to work with.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

This is where the "he's just a prohpet" or "just a great teacher" line of thinking totally loses me. If He wasn't God, then why did he say (over and over and over) that He was? He never said he was just a prophet or a teacher. If he wasn't God He was a total fruitcake, so why would you think he's a great teacher? David Koresh probably said some cool things, but he was still totally loopy and I certainly wouldn't call him a great teacher.

Well, can't someone be a bit loopy but still have some very insightful things to say?

Sure Jesus said he was God. And, personally, I think he was mistaken about that - or at least, that he wasn't any more a child of God than any regular person is. But I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because someone claims to be God doesn't mean everything they say is worthless. That whole bit about "blessed are the peacemakers" for example. I can get behind it.

[Sileree]

Imaginary character.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Well, can't someone be a bit loopy but still have some very insightful things to say?

Sure Jesus said he was God. And, personally, I think he was mistaken about that - or at least, that he wasn't any more a child of God than any regular person is. But I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because someone claims to be God doesn't mean everything they say is worthless. That whole bit about "blessed are the peacemakers" for example. I can get behind it.

Certainly. I still wouldn't consider someone who spent most of their time spouting what I perceived to be utter nonsense a "great teacher" just because they occasionally said things I liked. It's a matter of perspective I suppose, I'm just saying I personally don't understand it.

[Kidzaplenty]

If I did not believe in Jesus as God/God's Son, then I could not take anything that He said as good. When people are delusional or just idiotic, it does not matter what they say that may be good, I turn them off and don't listen. I don't want to study the teachings of a raving lunatic, no matter how "good" they may sound. And for Jesus to claim "Godness" at that particular time, in that culture, He was either honest or lunatic. (Today's culture is so different and it would not seem like a big deal, but then is a whole nother story!)

[moonshoes]

Originally Posted by zinemama

You are in an impossible position here, if that's your subject and you are supposed to come to a conclusion. Whether someone believes that Jesus is God is strictly and only a matter of faith. A Christian and I can look at any sort of "proof" you've got, and whatever the Bible says about the man, and the Christian is going to believe Jesus is God and I won't. Because that person has faith and believes that Jesus is God and I don't. It's entirely subjective.

.

I completely agree with this. I believe Jesus is God because I have faith. Without faith, I would think he was a cool radical hippie.

[EvansMomma]

Well up until recently I'd have said he was just maybe a man with mental issues. If anyone walked the earth today saying they were the secondborn of God, we'd lock them up right? Maybe Jesus was just mentally ill....lol But I don't think I believe that anymore. That's what I told myself I believed when I thought I was too cool for religion.

Now, I think he was divine. I think he was OF god, I think he came to teach us a very important message, I think he was a very important dude all around. So I say he's of god as much as we are all of god, no more no less. I don't think he IS god, I think he has that same "god-ness" in him as all of god's children do. I don't think he's the last of the "important messengers" and I don't think that the bible is the Last Word Of God either.

I don't think Jesus was a prophet, but nor do I think he WAS god. I think there's gotta be another option. I'm just not sure waht the term is that I'd use.

[L&IsMama]

I do not think Jesus is God. He is the Son of God. If Jesus himself is God, then who did he pray to? Jesus taught the disciples to pray to "Our Father", and he said "My Father is greater than I". Too many Bible verses refer to him as the Son of God. I just don't believe that he and God are one.

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by L&IsMama

I do not think Jesus is God. He is the Son of God. If Jesus himself is God, then who did he pray to? Jesus taught the disciples to pray to "Our Father", and he said "My Father is greater than I". Too many Bible verses refer to him as the Son of God. I just don't believe that he and God are one.

These passages make perfect sense though if you believe in the Trinity.

[L&IsMama]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

These passages make perfect sense though if you believe in the Trinity.

I don't believe in the Trinity. I have yet to find anyone who can explain the Trinity to me. It just doesn't make any logical sense.

[Turkish Kate]

I believe that the question was settled for early Christians at the Council of Nicea. I have to admit, however, that I'm not a Christian, and don't agree with the decision of the divinity of Jesus (pbuh). There are many places in the Bible that discount that view, also. For example:

John 5:30 (New International Version)

30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Acts 2:22 (New International Version)

22"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

God apparently had lots of sons:
Luke 3:38 (New International Version)

the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Exodus 4:22 (New International Version)

22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

Romans 8:14 (New International Version)

14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Although I don't believe that Jesus (pbuh) was divine or the son of God, I can't say that he was "just" a prophet. He was the greatest prophet sent and will return to earth on the Day of Judgment.

Interestingly enough, it was the Bible classes at my Baptist university that completed my break with Christianity.

[amydep]

Originally Posted by L&IsMama

I don't believe in the Trinity. I have yet to find anyone who can explain the Trinity to me. It just doesn't make any logical sense.

It's not supposed to make logical sense - it's a mystery. You either have faith and believe in it, or you don't.

I guess an analogy would be...my eye is a part of me and so is my foot. They are "me" in the sense that they are part of my body. Yet, they are separate parts, but part of a whole. Not a very good analogy, but one nonetheless.

[Summertime Mommy]

Hi all, I just wanted to say thanks for all the replies. I guess I did not really phrase my question well to begin with, what I was really looking for was whether Jesus was divine or just a man, because it could easily be read that when Jesus calls himself the "son of God" he could be referring to it in the same way that we are all children of God. It really isn't all that cut and dry. In fact, by the time I was done writing, I was more unsure of what the real answer is, than when I began. Anyway, I finished my essay using biblical text alone, but thanks again for the replies. I find this topic incredibly fascinating, even though it is a bit controversial.