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New huge outbreak expected due to lack of vax in UK

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
see link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3133013.stm
post #2 of 32
:Puke


Shame, shame. Same song, different verse.
Is anyone else as sick as I am of seeing that same old picture?
post #3 of 32

Hi, there Jamiemama...

...I see this is your first post. Have you had a chance to see any of the discussion about my son's experience with measles? He hasn't been vaccinated for anything and at the tender age of 18 months (just this last month), had his measles-- most likely transmitted by a vaccinated baby on a plane-- completely uneventfully. Fever of 103.4 for about a day--we let his body utilize the fever that his immune system created. Ate and drank through the entire thing. Barely even got a rash-- never got past his chest and back-- very faint-- and faded quickly-- a day and a half. Of course he was treated with breastmilk, cod liver oil, vitamin C and Goodpapa's Kick Ass Super Duper Probiotic Yogurt(for that extra IgA).

The icing on the cake is that HIS immunity is for life
(Bless those poor children who died but I'll bet anything
that they had received vaccines.)


Ray

P.S. What's so freakin' outragous about the government's claim of concern for human life is that they are still sacrificing human lives for oil!!

IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.
Now they want insurance companies to pick up the bill for vaccination so that-- get this it was actually in N.Y.T. yesterday--the drug companies can raise prices and profits (the gov. gets big price breaks) and MAKE MORE MONEY.

NOT BY DESTROYING MY CHILD'S BODY!!!!
post #4 of 32
I'm still waiting for the outbreak of 2002 we were warned about...oops, too late, it's 2003. Guess they had to renew the threat...

And when are all these unprotected adults going to start coming down with VPD's?

Christine
post #5 of 32
of course everyone knows that measles is a totally harmless disease, why would you want to vaccinate against it?
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/vaxlia...slesdeaths.htm


edited to get the link correct
post #6 of 32
When the outbreak hits, why don't we all go to the UK to catch it. Vacation for a couple of weeks and then bring our naturally immune kiddos back? Sounds like a great gift to give our kids. If I understand correctly, won't my dd pass natural immunity on to her children?
post #7 of 32
just check your insurance in case you have to take your "kiddo" to hospital .

http://www.who.int/vaccine_research/...es/measles/en/
post #8 of 32
You stun me with your well presented debate Hiliary, why don't you look at the sites i suggested. I have plenty more i can present. After all as a parent you have a responcibilty to provide the best care you can for your children.

This Judge agrees:
"British Mothers Lose Court Battle Over MMR Vaccine"




http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/459471
post #9 of 32
I think that must have been a joke-- no one posts ratbag links unless they're joking, right? :LOL :LOL

Quote:
Measles may be ultimately responsible for more child deaths than any other single agent because of complications from pneumonia, diarrhoea and malnutrition...Of the deaths attributable to measles, 98% occur in developing countries, where vitamin A deficiency is common.
(from yer WHO link)
So vit A deficiency->increased mortality from complications. How many kiddos in the UK are vit A deficient do you suppose? And even if they aren't...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Of the 2% of measles deaths worldwide that occur in developed countries (like the US & UK) what do you suppose are the circumstances & medical histories of the patients?
post #10 of 32
Measles is often a severe disease, frequently complicated by middle ear infection or bronchopneumonia. Encephalitis occurs in approximately 1 of every 2,000 reported cases; survivors often have permanent brain damage and mental retardation. Death, predominantly from respiratory and neurologic causes, occurs in 1 of every 3,000 reported measles cases. The risk of death is known to be greater for infants and adults than for children and adolescents.

Measles illness during pregnancy increases fetal risk. Most commonly, this involves premature labor and moderately increased rates of spontaneous abortion and of low birth-weight infants. Results of 1 retrospective study in an isolated population suggest that measles infection in the first trimester of pregnancy was associated with an increased rate of congenital malformation.

Before measles vaccine was available, more than 400,000 measles cases were reported each year in the United States. Since the licensure of vaccine in 1963, the collaborative efforts of professional and voluntary medical and public health organizations in vaccination programs have resulted in a 99% reduction in the reported incidence of measles. In 1981, a provisional total of 3,032 cases were reported.

Note this is about the USA.
post #11 of 32
Without vaccination you are exposed to the risks as presented above. It don't matter how much Vit A you scoff it won't immunise you, so you are going to be at risk.
do you want me to go into how safe the vaccine is, so you can compare risks ?

Also for discussion, why it is increases risks if you take measles mumps and rubella as single vaccines.

really i don't think i will convince a real woo woo but an interested party might become better informed and make the right choice as a parent.
post #12 of 32
Quote:
Originally posted by Prester John
just check your insurance in case you have to take your "kiddo" to hospital .

http://www.who.int/vaccine_research/...es/measles/en/
According to your link,

"Disease burden. Measles, in spite of available vaccination, remains a heavy public health burden worldwide especially in developing countries"

so why don't you fill us in on some stats, here is what I would like to see,

Since the burden of the disease is in developing countries, what percentage of those who died from measles had insurance and access to medical care?


Will be waiting for your response.
post #13 of 32
well as data for developing countries is rather hard to obtain i will present data for the UK, where medical care is freely available.

1996 (UK)
"The risk of developing encephalitis after MMR is about 1 child in a million. This is lower than the risk of developing encephalitis in the general population without the vaccine. The risk of a child developing encephalitis after having measles is about 1 in 5,000 and 1/3 of these children will be left with permanent brain damage."--Health Education Authority 1996

so even with good medical care you are at risk. Of course you can start some really good preventative medical care with the MMR vaccine.

ooh this is good:

in the year before MMR was intoduced (1988) (in the UK) 86000 children caught measles and there were 16 deaths. DEATHS that is. between 1989 and 1998 there were 2430 cases of measles (a drop of 97%) with less than 100 being confirmed. oh and the last death from acute measles was reported in 1992.

whats MMR done, nothing you answer.

Why don't you provide some evidence as to why parents should put their children at risk by not having the MMR vaccine.
post #14 of 32
Wow, we almost went a week without a 'teacher'.

I predict this thread will soon be added to the pile.

http://216.92.20.151/discussions/sho...threadid=77591

post #15 of 32
Well since you failed to cite a source for your pro-vaccine "woo woo" US data, can't really look at it for myself now can I?
Quote:
Measles is often a severe disease, frequently complicated by middle ear infection or bronchopneumonia.
Yes, we're all about vaxing to prevent ear infections & pneumonia here in the US. Per the pink book, in measles cases ear infection rate was 7% & pneumonia was 6%. Does this count as "frequent"?

Quote:
survivors often have permanent brain damage and mental retardation.
"often"???? And the definition of "often" would be what?
The pink book also states that encephalitis occurs in 0.1% of cases & of that 0.1%, "residual neurologic damage" can occur in up to 25%. I wouldn't call that "often."

Quote:
Death, predominantly from respiratory and neurologic causes, occurs in 1 of every 3,000 reported measles cases.
Yes, the pink book states a death rate of 0.2% of reported cases. I'll ask again-- what are the circumstances & medical histories of these cases??

Quote:
It don't matter how much Vit A you scoff it won't immunise you, so you are going to be at risk.
Apparently vit A DOES matter. Of course it doesn't "immunise" anyone, but it clearly assists infected individuals in recovering successfully, with fewer complications. A successful recovery means complete, lifelong immunity...immunisation.

Quote:
do you want me to go into how safe the vaccine is, so you can compare risks ?
I doubt you even know where to find such information that doesn't make us all gag. I'm sure Insider would absolutely LOVE for you to give us all a lesson...

Quote:
why it is increases risks if you take measles mumps and rubella as single vaccines.
"Baking powder? Ex-squeeze me?" Please re-state the question, not sure I understand what you're getting at?


Quote:
an interested party might become better informed and make the right choice as a parent.
Aaahhh.. "right choice" would be subjective, now wouldn't it?
post #16 of 32
So what you are saying is you broadly agree with the values i gave as to the risks associated with measles. These values are widley agreed upon. (mine were taken from one of the CDC pages, and are agreed on generally)



It has been suggested that taking the vaccines singly instead of as a combined jab makes the process safer. This carries risks as well and cannot be recommended as a public health measure.


Subjective how? i have yet to see any evidence that suggest having MMR(vaccine) is more dangerous than not having MMR (vaccine).
post #17 of 32
I don't post to this forum very much because I don't do vax research or anything like that. When I see thread headings like this one, I usually read them to see why they believe that, not because I would *ever* think they are true.

I am not sure what value this kind of debate has. From the other posters, I am guessing that there are a lot of pro-vax threads that are just started to rile everybody up. And they sure seem fairly attack-oriented, if this thread is any indicator.

I really like what goodpapa posted about his *personal* experience. I think that anecdotal evidence like that is actually more helpful. Statistics generally do not consider people like me -- all organic diet, daily exercise, meditation. Or my baby -- 100% breastfed, and held in my arms all day.

Germ theory is still just a theory. The germs are all around us all the time. They can't conquer a truly healthy body. And that doesn't mean that we won't ever get sick.

I have never felt that I had to "convince" anyone about my point of view on this topic; I can't imagine why anyone would try to convince me to do something about a topic so personal.

By the way, I would not really be inclined to listen to someone who refers to the opposing side as "anti-vaccination liars."

Jean
post #18 of 32
Actually what I thought I said pretty clearly was:

1) measles is not nearly as dangerous to children in developed countries as scaremongers would have us believe

2) there are approaches other than MMR that may be used to both successfully prevent measles complications & obtain subsequent immunity



Do you not know what subjective means??:

"[adj] taking place within the mind and modified by individual bias; 'a subjective judgment'"

Our personal biases determine what is right for us as individuals and families. Everyone considers options within the context of his or her own culture, lifestyle, education, resource pool, etc. The right choice for me may or may not be the right choice for Hilary, Trabot, Goodpapa or yourself. Though our choices may differ, they may still all be "right" choices.


Personally, yes I think it isn't smart to intentionally shoot up a baby with 3 live viruses simultaneously...but that's just me. Knock yourself out if that's what you think is "right"-- doesn't bother me one bit.

By the way, John, the rest of us here "know" each other pretty well as it is customary to post an intro as a newby. Perhaps you could post yours sometime soon so that we can become more familiar with your... "individual biases" ??????????
post #19 of 32
Quote:
By the way, I would not really be inclined to listen to someone who refers to the opposing side as "anti-vaccination liars."

Yeah, I know.

The only people who have come to these boards and post something like that have come with a major agenda...
It certainly is a fine introduction. I can feel the goosestep.
post #20 of 32
What have you got to say about the measles epidemic between 1989 and 1991 in the US?


anyone got any guesses as to how many people died?

remember:
"1) measles is not nearly as dangerous to children in developed countries as scaremongers would have us believe"
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