New huge outbreak expected due to lack of vax in UK - Page 2

[amnesiac]

I think the question is, what have YOU got to say about it?
The 132 suspected measles-associated deaths comprised the 0.2% case fatality rate just like I stated previously. (MMWR 42(19);378-381)

What about those deaths? What were the histories & circumstances?

[Prester John]

yes so in the US, there were 132 deaths from 55,600 cases, 90% of which did not recieve the Measles vaccine.

so a 0.2 % fatality rate means 1 death in every 500 cases. Is that not dangerous enough for you? These are preventable by administering the MMR vaccine. I think we agree on the death rate.

Why did the epidemic occur? Because of low uptake of the measles vaccine.

i have not yet heard anything close to evidence to support an anti vaccine stance, just shouting and hand waving.

[InfoisPower]

Troll, troll, troll your boat.

[Prester John]

oh and another question for you, would you support the use of MMR in the developing world?
Pehaps only poor and deprived people should get it, as you are implying it only kills those.

Pehaps while you are explaining things you could explain how a live pathogenic measles virus, is less dangerous than a vaccine (attenuated) strain.

PJ

[Deborah]

I was born in 1950. Had measles in 1957. Sick for about a week, moderately miserable. My mother was not worried as far as I can remember and assumed that I would get well with no particular problems. I did.

I don't remember parents in those days worrying about kids getting measles. In some cases they would even expose them on purpose to "get it out of the way."

So, why has measles become so much more virulent? The death rate has obviously gone way up since the 1950's when it was a common childhood illness in the U.S. and the U.K. and severe consequences were rare.

Sorry I can't point to the detailed statistics on this!

One side note. One of my aunts died of measles in 1914. She and her family were crossing the Atlantic coming to the U.S. It was a ship crowded with emigrants from Europe. Measles broke out and a large number of children were ill. My aunt was the only one who died. Her mother was scared of the doctor and didn't go to him. I suspect that the doctor was probably just giving the kids laxatives, but whatever it was it apparently worked.

Measles is apparently a lot more dangerous if you try to suppress or reduce the fever. In the last 50 years that bit of wisdom has apparently been lost and fever reducers are frequently used in many common childhood illnesses. Could this be one factor in the increased mortality since the 1950's?

Measles vaccination also makes it impossible (difficult?) for infants to acquire immunity by breastfeeding. This means more infants coming down with measles. Many diseases are more dangerous in infancy (is this why breastmilk supplies immunity? clever!).

Vaccination against childhood diseases is an experiment. The results look good, but only superficially. The long-term consequences seem a lot more doubtful...

Deborah (the one in Montreal but right now I'm in Vermont)

[Katana]

What have you got to say about the measles epidemic between 1989 and 1991 in the US?

My brother got the MMR shot in 1988, #3 for him in his life. That didn't keep him from developing the worst case of atypical measles our pediatrician had ever seen in early 1990.

He got to rest, eat ice cream and watch TV for a whole week. As long as he didn't look in the mirror, it wasn't a bad deal, really.

[amnesiac]

there were 132 deaths from 55,600 cases, 90% of which did not recieve the Measles vaccine.

Dude. Could you please start referencing your statements?
For how many unvaccinated cases was routine vaccination recommended? If it wasn't recommended, why? WHAT WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE FATALITIES?

These are preventable by administering the MMR vaccine.

Ahem...you just said yourself that some of those fatalities were vaxed.

Why did the epidemic occur? Because of low uptake of the measles vaccine.

Really? Faaaaascinating.... Apparently one dose didn't confer lifelong immunity as was previously thought. You've left out the bit about the change in dosage schedule.

Is that not dangerous enough for you?

Doesn't really matter what I think-- apparently it is for you.

Pehaps while you are explaining things you could explain how a live pathogenic measles virus, is less dangerous than a vaccine (attenuated) strain.

Tell ya what, Johnny boy, when you've answered my questions I'll answer some more of yours!

would you support the use of MMR in the developing world?Pehaps only poor and deprived people should get it, as you are implying it only kills those.

Perhaps we could better serve humanity by helping "un-deprive" children????

[goodpapa]

Hey PJ, I'm posting this again for your benefit...

...you might have been blinded before by your propaganda


Hi, there Jamiemama...
...I see this is your first post. Have you had a chance to see any of the discussion about my son's experience with measles? He hasn't been vaccinated for anything and at the tender age of 18 months (just this last month), had his measles-- most likely transmitted by a vaccinated baby on a plane-- completely uneventfully. Fever of 103.4 for about a day--we let his body utilize the fever that his immune system created. Ate and drank through the entire thing. Barely even got a rash-- never got past his chest and back-- very faint-- and faded quickly-- a day and a half. Of course he was treated with breastmilk, cod liver oil, vitamin C and Goodpapa's Kick Ass Super Duper Probiotic Yogurt(for that extra IgA).

The icing on the cake is that HIS immunity is for life
(Bless those poor children who died but I'll bet anything
that they had received vaccines.)

Funny how my son's measles didn't look anything like the poor boy's face in your link. Maybe his immune system was compromised because it had never really had a chance to work?

Tell me why I should have vaccinated my son, pumped all sorts of toxins including live virus (I'd like to do an inspection of each one to make sure they all got attenuated, and that no full strength virus is bypassing my son's mucosal immune system by being injected directly into his flesh.) We know more about our meat-processing in this country than about the controls on vaccine production-- and we really have no control on our meat processing--bacterial outbreaks all the time.

Can you tell me every ingredient in the MMR? Probably not, some of them are trade secrets.

Please don't make me wait, I itching to know what YOU have to say to ME.

Ray

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

trimp, tromp, trip right across this little bridge....

[Prester John]

"Impact of the Measles Vaccine
Prior to 1963, almost everyone got measles; it was an expected life event. Each year in the U.S. there were approximately 3 to 4 million cases and an average of 450 deaths, with epidemic cycles every 2 to 3 years. More than half the population had measles by the time they were 6 years old, and 90 % had the disease by the time they were 15. This indicates that many more cases were occurring than were being reported. However, after the vaccine became available, the number of measles cases dropped by 98 % and the epidemic cycles drastically diminished."

so there we go so before the vaccine 450 people died / year, about one in every 7000/8000

"Second Measles Vaccine Dose
It was discovered that, between 1985 and 1988, many measles cases had occurred in children who had been vaccinated. While there were far fewer measles cases among vaccinated children than among unvaccinated, the children who received only one dose were not always protected from the disease. This led to the recommendation of a second dose for children between the ages of 5 and 19 years of age to ensure protection for those who had not developed immunity from the first dose."

a single dose does not confer full immunity, thats why its recommneded you have a second dose.



"1989-1990 Measles Epidemic
A dramatic increase in measles cases occurred between 1989 and 1991. During those three years, 55,622 cases were reported Most of the cases occurred in children under 5 years of age, with the number of cases among unvaccinated Hispanic and African American populations being four to seven times higher than among non-Hispanic whites. This also marked the first time the number of measles cases for children under 5 years of age exceeded those for the 5 to 19 years old group.
During this period, 123 people died from measles-related illnesses — almost half were under 5 years old. Ninety percent of those who lost their lives had not been vaccinated. The 64 deaths in 1990 was the largest number that had been seen in almost 20 years."

so lets get this straight, low uptake of the vaccine led to an outbreak and many deaths, 1 per 500 infected people in this epidemic.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/diseases/meas....htm#outbreaks

[Prester John]

Hiliary, if you don't understand why I, Prester John, changed my location then i'm not going to tell you.

i will be back after i have read up on why Vit A is the philosophers stone of medicine.



PJ

[Cynthia Mosher]

I am closing this thread. jamiemamma and Preston John I emailed both of you and have received no response. I see no reason to allow this discussion to continue to degenerate into conflict.