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Is this really how they do it. - Page 5

post #81 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tammyswanson View Post
What about support for the child? No one is running in to see why they are screaming their heads off.
Wow, jinx!
post #82 of 106
I just don't understand how these parents do it, period. Hearing my daughter cry makes my whole body twist up and I feel sick if I can't get to her soon enough (like if I'm stuck in the bathroom ).

I've stopped telling the truth when asked if DD is sleeping through the night. If I say "No, she's still waking up about 4-5 times to nurse" then I get told I'm being manipulated and that I should start letting her CIO. It's lovely getting advice (especially this kind of gruesome advice) when you're not even asking for it or complaining about the lack of sleep.
post #83 of 106
I heard something recently that makes so much sense -

"A need not met in infancy becomes a hole to fill in adulthood"

One of my LLL leaders said it and I can't remember who she was quoting but I think it's so true and I've repeated it to family & friends who can't understand why we don't CIO, etc.
post #84 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by texanatheart View Post
Needless to say at age 18 she is VERY emotionally scarred. As an older child, she used to gnaw on the backs of her hands. Sorry to tell that awful story, and it's quite extreme, but it goes to show how much damage it can do to an otherwise beautiful life
You know this is not needless to say. I'm sorry I am not at all pro-CIO. I still cosleep with my two and five year old. It's not what I would do and it breaks my heart to read about tiny babies being left to cry. But as we've all said this is a very mainstream practice. Mainstream meaning many many people (the majority in fact) do this and yet not all these little kids are running around emotionally scarred and chewing on the backs of their hands. I am one of five children and we were all CIOed and none of us chewed on the baby of our hands. I think those kinds of long lasting side effects are actually pretty unusual and rare. And I think when we say things like that we lose possible converts because it seems so inflammatory and over the top and no one the person we're talking to has ever heard of such a thing so it's easy to dismiss us. I think the point should more be how much it sucks for the baby. How it feels for the baby and how it's just not right to treat such a young one that way rather than "oh your kid is going to be forever emotionally damaged if you do that" because quite honestly that's probably not true if the parents are otherwise loving and engaged. As we've said many parents aren't doing this callously they're doing it because they think the baby "needs" it. Now there are parents that to me the CIO is a symtom of their otherwise crappy parenting. These parents are in all things detattached. Fit the kids into their life instead of adapting their own life. I can easily believe these people have emotionally disturbed kids but who can pinpoint what part was due to the CIO and what part to the spanking and what part to feeling like they were an accessory for mom kwim?

And again I'm not saying CIO is good but I can't accepted that needless to say all kids who are CIOed and shut in their rooms are reduced to emotionally disturbed shells either.
post #85 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodheartedmama View Post
on the mainstream board I go to, someone posted recently about having to use an industrial fan to block out the noise of her child, who CIO for 3 hours. THREE HOURS!
I literally bawled imagining this baby alone in the dark whose desperate cries were being blocked out by a huge loud fan : I can't read any more. That is abuse... neglect. Period.
post #86 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
And again I'm not saying CIO is good but I can't accepted that needless to say all kids who are CIOed and shut in their rooms are reduced to emotionally disturbed shells either.
of course not. but then, lots of kids are also spanked and hit and turn out NOT to be "emotionally disturbed shells." the point to me is that it's just not right to do certain things with and to your children, even if they are likely to turn out more or less okay anyhow.

and of course some kids are much more affected by these things, even in small doses, than others. and you just don't know whether your child, or any child, will be so affected. for example, maybe sleep training had no ill effects on you, but i'm convinced that being allowed to cry in my crib every night (even though my dad lay on the floor so i wouldn't "feel abandoned," but didn't pick me up--every night!) did do something to me. i hate going to bed, did when i was a kid, always have, still do, probably always will. it's always felt scary to me, and i refuse to believe this has nothing to do with CIO.

if i can keep my child from feeling that way about going to bed, i want to do that. it's a wonderful gift to give your child, good feelings about sleep--not to mention teaching them to trust their loved ones. i'm not very good at that either
post #87 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
of course not. but then, lots of kids are also spanked and hit and turn out NOT to be "emotionally disturbed shells." the point to me is that it's just not right to do certain things with and to your children, even if they are likely to turn out more or less okay anyhow.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole "well, my parents did blah-blah and I'm perfectly fine!" argument ... by nature, human beings are resilient and many have survived unspeakable horrors and, to the outside world, appear to be 'fine'.

We could beat our children and, chances are, they'd grow up to be functioning adults who don't appear obviously "damaged". But I think we can all accept, even the most hardcore mainstreamers included, that beating kids is wrong.
post #88 of 106
Here's a sick, sad story. I was 15 and babysitting for a family who was ferberizing their approx year-old baby. I was given the rule that "under NO circumstances" was I to go in the baby's room after 8 o'clock and pick him up. (We all know what's going to happen, right?) I put him to bed precisely at 8 and he started screaming. After a half hour of screaming (and me crying outside the door), I called my mom and asked her what to do. She told me to give it another hour.

Well, after the hour and a half (I had put on a movie to try to distract myself, but couldn't and watched the clock the whole time), I called my mom again. While I was on the phone with her, the poor little guy THREW UP from crying so much. I went in to clean him up and my mother told me TO LEAVE HIM LIKE THAT. She said "that's what I used to do with you. It taught you not to cry and then throw up everywhere when you had to sleep in it."



I was dumbfounded. I hung up with my mom, cleaned him off and changed him, and let him stay up and watch the movie with me. When his mom & dad got home, I quick ran him into his room and put him in the crib.

Can you imagine?? It totally changed my view of my mom.
post #89 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magali View Post
When it gets rough for me...like on certain nights when I really want my alone time...and ds is wide awake...instead of putting him in another room and letting him scream, I try to think that someday he is going to be 16 years old and won't want to cuddle with me at all. Someday I'm sure I'll look back and be happy for all the time we spent together nursing and cuddling.
That's exactly what I would be thinking about. They are only little for so long, why spend that time ignoring them and treating them like something they have to manage and train? Hold your babies tight, mamas!
post #90 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate View Post
Here's a sick, sad story. I was 15 and babysitting for a family who was ferberizing their approx year-old baby. I was given the rule that "under NO circumstances" was I to go in the baby's room after 8 o'clock and pick him up. (We all know what's going to happen, right?) I put him to bed precisely at 8 and he started screaming. After a half hour of screaming (and me crying outside the door), I called my mom and asked her what to do. She told me to give it another hour.

Well, after the hour and a half (I had put on a movie to try to distract myself, but couldn't and watched the clock the whole time), I called my mom again. While I was on the phone with her, the poor little guy THREW UP from crying so much. I went in to clean him up and my mother told me TO LEAVE HIM LIKE THAT. She said "that's what I used to do with you. It taught you not to cry and then throw up everywhere when you had to sleep in it."
:

There's a highly renowned Australian "sleep expert" who has given advice almost as awful for this scenario - she explains that the vomiting is nothing more than a manipulative technique of a more "fiesty" baby and that all you should do is go in, wipe them down, clean them up as efficiently as possible without making eye contact or offering any comfort and leave the room again.
post #91 of 106
I don't know why I keep reading this thread. The stories are getting worse and worse. :
post #92 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nora'sMama View Post
Wow, jinx!
Hee hee!
post #93 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate View Post
Here's a sick, sad story. I was 15 and babysitting for a family who was ferberizing their approx year-old baby. I was given the rule that "under NO circumstances" was I to go in the baby's room after 8 o'clock and pick him up. (We all know what's going to happen, right?) I put him to bed precisely at 8 and he started screaming. After a half hour of screaming (and me crying outside the door), I called my mom and asked her what to do. She told me to give it another hour.

Well, after the hour and a half (I had put on a movie to try to distract myself, but couldn't and watched the clock the whole time), I called my mom again. While I was on the phone with her, the poor little guy THREW UP from crying so much. I went in to clean him up and my mother told me TO LEAVE HIM LIKE THAT. She said "that's what I used to do with you. It taught you not to cry and then throw up everywhere when you had to sleep in it."



I was dumbfounded. I hung up with my mom, cleaned him off and changed him, and let him stay up and watch the movie with me. When his mom & dad got home, I quick ran him into his room and put him in the crib.

Can you imagine?? It totally changed my view of my mom.
Wow...that is totally cruel! I'm so glad you cleaned the poor baby and picked them up...poor little thing! One year old is too young to do that sort of 'behavior modification'!
post #94 of 106
Its sad how mainstream cio is. My cousin (male, no child) told me at thanksgiving that if i continued to pick up my 5mo ds everytime he cried that he was going to learn that fussing= being picked up. i just replied that he ought to learn that because that is how we are parenting him and that he was smart to know that he would be comforted if he was upset.
no response.
post #95 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmzbm View Post
I saw a mom letting her DD scream in KMart today for nearly that long. She said to the older woman with her (grandma?) "Oh, she's BOSSY!" She was a newborn, clearly. Then when she FINALLY picked her up she said "I will change your diaper if you just stop all this nonsence!"
I imagine it is likely she screams alot at night too.

This was a newborn?:
post #96 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber Rose View Post
UGH SERIOUSLY. I wake up hungry in the middle of the night ALL THE TIME. So why shouldn't I expect the same from the little one?

Well, to be fair, there are children who do not nurse for hours at a time or wake up to eat several times a night. Mine never did. Usually they would nurse around midnight and then wake up about 6 or so to eat again, when they were around 2-3 mos old. Of course, there were nights when there was an extra time, usually around growth spurts, but usually they slept at least 6 hrs.

In fact, I had never heard of children literally being attached to a breast all night long before coming to this board. I am not knocking it, of course, but my experience was just different.
post #97 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margot Adler View Post
Its sad how mainstream cio is. My cousin (male, no child) told me at thanksgiving that if i continued to pick up my 5mo ds everytime he cried that he was going to learn that fussing= being picked up.
Oh noes, a baby learning that his cries are going to be responded to! :
post #98 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerBelle View Post
Well, to be fair, there are children who do not nurse for hours at a time or wake up to eat several times a night. Mine never did. Usually they would nurse around midnight and then wake up about 6 or so to eat again, when they were around 2-3 mos old. Of course, there were nights when there was an extra time, usually around growth spurts, but usually they slept at least 6 hrs.
This was DD. I was in for a shock with DS!
post #99 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_McG View Post
30 minutes would be consider a great success by mainstream folk. It's the 'stubborn' ones that take hours. :
that makes me sick that parents would say that:
post #100 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidirk View Post
It's tempting to try CIO every night for this house, I haven't given in ... there's nothing wrong with him, he just doesn't sleep.
I hear you. My guy is 27 months old and ever since he stopped nursing to sleep six months ago he takes an hour to fall asleep -- believe me, I'm sick and tired of sitting by his bed in the dark waiting for him to drop off, but what's my alternative? Letting him cry? That's no alternative.

A friend of mine in my very first playgroup (I've since moved on to a more philosophically aligned group) once let her one-year-old daughter cry alone in her crib for an hour and a half at naptime. When the little girl finally fell still, my friend went in to check on her. The girl was nearly unconscious with a very high fever and had blood coming out of her ear -- it turned out she had a terrible ear infection that my friend hadn't known about. My friend felt terrible -- but she didn't stop CIO. Man, I couldn't believe it!
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