My DD took from a teacher's desk, a ? about punishment

[jeca]

My DD is in the 1st grade. She came home yesterday with a crystaline apple and after much discussion she admitted that she took it from her reading teacher's desk. I took her right back up to the school and gave it back. I told the teacher that the disciplinary action was left up to her. She said if it was one of her students she would take a day away from recess from her. I agreed and we left. DD came home today and we asked her what did she do during recess while all the other kids were playing. She said she went to recess and played with them. Her actual teacher(not the reading teacher) told her that it was OK and she could come outside for recess since the reading teacher wasn't on recess duty. I'm not OK with this she just got out of her punishment for taking the apple because her teacher told her she didn't have to do it. I asked if her teacher knew what had happened and she said yes she told her what she had done and she was suppose to stay behind. I really like her teacher and I know she think highly of DD but I think she should still have to do what the other teacher said. I was really surprised that she over turned this for something like stealing from a teacher. What should I do if anything?

[kmeyrick]

I might talk with DD and tell her that while the teacher was very kind, YOU still don't approve and she needs to write a letter of apology. A sentence or two will do for her age. This way, she won't get into the game of "some adults I can play, some I can't" and she'll develop a stronger moral code- that you can't sneak out of consequences. I like letters of apology- we consider what we did wrong when we write them and therefore learn more, and nothing gets fast forgiveness like a good apology!

[CarrieMF]

IMO you need to talk to her regular teacher. Just becuase the other teacher was not on supervision during recess it does not mean that the punishment was lifted.

I would also talk to the reading teacher so she understands what happened.

I would also have dd still do the punishment the reading teacher said would happen.

[lightheart]

my K son came home with a lemon a few weeks ago..... "I snuck it in my pocket when nobody was looking" was where he got it..... I drove him in the next day and he had to give it back to the teacher (a sub, his regular teach was out with surgery) and appologize, that was tramatic enough for him and I felt at the time that was enough... I wished I would of thought to take something away for punishment like recess....

I would definatly go in and talk to the teacher and tell her your feelings that you were trying to show your daughter that if she did X that she faced Y, that by doing things that are wrong you have to face the punishment,

what to do now for punishment? I don't know, now you have to go against this 2nd teacher overturning the punishment, how to make it so your daughter knows that teach 2 did the wrong thing also but not make it so that teacher isn't undermined in her future ability to teach/discipline in the future?? that's a toughy. definate talk to the teacher on an adult level and tell her she was wrong to overturn the punishment, would having your daughter sit out of recess next day of school work as punishment or has so much time passed that it isn't going to get the point across to her?

I also went in and talked to the teacher that does guidence 1 day a week with the kids as a class and asked her to do a lesson on stealing and taking things that don't belong to you, she said she covers that but would make a point to do it sooner than she had planned.

Hugs that things work out well, I was mortified when my son pulled the lemon out of his pocket...

[mammastar2]

You know she took it. The teachers know she took it. She had to give it back, and she knows you're disappointed in her.

I'd probably remark that she was very fortunate that she ended up getting recess after all, reinforce that you trust she won't do anything like that again, and leave it. There's really no particular relationship between stealing and recess anyhow...

[shanniesue2]

Originally Posted by mammastar2

You know she took it. The teachers know she took it. She had to give it back, and she knows you're disappointed in her.

I'd probably remark that she was very fortunate that she ended up getting recess after all, reinforce that you trust she won't do anything like that again, and leave it. There's really no particular relationship between stealing and recess anyhow...

I agree... and I think this would have been appropriate IF nothing had ever been said about taking away recess.

But then the reading teacher did say that she would not get recess as a result... and I firmly believe that if you tell a child you're going to do something, you do it... because otherwise they learn that you don't mean what you say... consistency is so important. I never would have suggested taking recess away as an appropriate punishment because it doesn't have anything to do with stealing... plus the punishment was and is delayed, so to speak... which makes the two seem to have even less to do with eachother. However, now there's the issue of teachers not backing eachother up... and that can be a bad recipe. Kids are smart and they learn very quickly whether or not they can play one teacher off another. So I think in your case, I would speak with the teacher and just let her know that you think it's really important for kids to have consistent expectations. I would also talk with the reading teacher about the concern that losing recess is a punishment that isn't related to stealing the apple.

[jeca]

For those that think that taking away recess wasn't an appropriate punishment for stealing well I'm not really sure what is in this case. To em it is ok, she took something away from her teacher that her teacher enjoys and she (well was suppose) to get something taken away that she enjoyed. plus school was over when I took her back to the school so what else could have been done at that exact moment?

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by kmeyrick

I might talk with DD and tell her that while the teacher was very kind, YOU still don't approve and she needs to write a letter of apology. A sentence or two will do for her age. This way, she won't get into the game of "some adults I can play, some I can't" and she'll develop a stronger moral code- that you can't sneak out of consequences. I like letters of apology- we consider what we did wrong when we write them and therefore learn more, and nothing gets fast forgiveness like a good apology!

I like this.

[beanma]

Well, I don't agree with taking away recess. They do that occasionally at my dd1's school, but it's minutes of time for cutting up in class (like 1 or 2 minutes). I still don't agree with it, but I haven't brought it up as an issue of contention because it's not a huge deal and it's only rarely been meted out to my dd1.

As a general rule we're fairly non-punitive as a family and also at dd1's school. If that was my dd1 who took something from her teacher I would ask her how she would feel if somebody took something from her (bad, mad, sad). I would then ask her how she thought she could make her teacher feel better and see what she came up with. If she was having trouble thinking of something I would give her a few ideas, but staying inside during recess wouldn't be one of them. I might offer the letter of apology idea or maybe drawing a picture and offering the teacher a hug. Think about it if it weren't a school situation. Suppose it was a grandma's apple or a neighbor's. What would you do then?

As far as the reading teacher and the regular teacher not seeing eye to eye on it I would bring that up with the regular teacher, but since I do not advocate punishment I would urge the regular teacher to help the reading teacher come up with better ideas for dealing with situations like this.

Before I had kids my nephew took a teeny rubber monster finger puppet toy from our house on a visit. His mom made him send them back with a letter of apology. I felt so bad for him having to go through the angst to write a letter I wrote him back and thanked him for returning the little monster guy and told him I knew that must have been a hard thing to do and I think I sent him a few different little monster guys back.

Being forced to apologize like that is really hard. If it comes from the kid it's much better than if it comes from the parent. I might prompt with "would you like to say you're sorry", but I would hope I would try to steer clear of the forced apology. I do fall victim to it with regard to sibling rivalry, though, because it burns me up to see one of my dds hit the other one, but I don't really think it's necessarily the ideal way to handle those situations. It's certainly better than staying in at recess, though.

hth, if you really want some non-punitive ideas you might cross post on the GD board.

[kmeyrick]

Originally Posted by beanma

Being forced to apologize like that is really hard. If it comes from the kid it's much better than if it comes from the parent. I might prompt with "would you like to say you're sorry", but I would hope I would try to steer clear of the forced apology.

For young kids who for some reason don't have a conscience, I would agree. But I think that most children like the concept of having a way to make amends. At this point they don't have a big overblown ego that most adults do, and they want to make wrongs right, they just need guidance as to how. A letter of apology doesn't have the psychologically volatile atmosphere of a confrontation. It is calmer, more reflective, and you can choose your words carefully, saying things you might not be able to in the heat of the moment. I think for younger kids it's a good idea. Also, sometimes we have to apologize whether we want to or not. How many friendships, marriages, etc have ended because one was too puffed up to apologize to the other? I would appeal to this girl's conscience, She's young enough to develop a healthy attitude toward making amends, so capitalize on this opportunity. I work with older kids too who will lie, lie, lie, and lie again when the evidence is overwhelming. They just get deeper into trouble because they can't say "I shouldn't have hit her, I shouldn't have stolen that."

[jeca]

Originally Posted by beanma

Being forced to apologize like that is really hard.
.

She missed her recess today at school, she actually sat herself against the wall while the others played no one told her to, and I am very proud of her for that.
She wasn't forced to apologize so that's not an issue. I actually was prepared to take the apple back to the school myself but she wanted to come with me and face up to what she had done. It was very brave of her and the reading teacher acknowledged that. She said something like I know it took a lot for you to come back up here and give this back to me. I don't agree with not doing anything. Offering a hug is nothing. I would never tell a child that is all they have to do to make something right with someone. We hug(our family) as a sign of affection I wouldn't confuse her with thinking that's all you gotta do if you steal from someone. Just us personally.

[kmeyrick]

Wow! You have a great daughter! Sounds like you are doing an amazing job.