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Vaginal delivery does not equal Natural Childbirth - Page 4

post #61 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by gethane View Post
but that's the whole point, its NOT a badge, its a DEFINITION.

Sigh.

This is not a competition. There are no medals, or badges to be won. Everyone who takes a living baby home from the hospital is a winner.


Thank YOU!
post #62 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreThanApplesauce View Post
I face possible induction and if I must do so, will be going though labor and vaginal delivery without pain meds. Dang straight I'll call it natural childbirth. It is not a "made up definition."
Amen to that!
post #63 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenOfThePride View Post
I saw a TV show about that. I think the baby was actually an abdominal ectopic pregnancy. The woman did go into labor and went to a hospital. She got scared when she heard a woman having a Cesarean with inadequate pain relief and ran back home. Her baby died and her labor stopped. Then her body mummified the baby.

But that is really off topic for this thread.
yes that is the one!!
post #64 of 164
I have some issues with this, too...

I can not tell you how many times I've heard someone say "Yeah, I had a natural birth. I got the epidural as soon as I could, so I couldn't feel anything and it was great!" Sorry, that's not "natural"....

And then there's me. I had my son vaginally, but there was nothing "natural" about it! Even the 49 hours prior to getting an epidural were not "natural" by my definition of the word!! I was induced from the get-go. Ultimately, my body did its job, but not without a LOT of medical intervention.

Even if I hadn't ended up with an epidural, I would not call it a "natural birth". I would say "I had an induction without pain medication, which ended in a vaginal birth", or something to that effect.

For me, the term "natural birth" is reserved for an experience that FEELS natural. That will not include pain medications, will not include pitocin, and will include me working with my body effectively, feeling supported, and birthing my baby in the way that best suits my body and my baby.

However, I've seen some women go TOO far defining "natural birth", to the point that they were debating if you could still consider it natural if you had pitocin to help the uterus contract after the baby was born....:

To me, I think that the definition of the term "natural" varies a bit from woman to woman. If you have a shot of pitocin, or you have AROM, but no other interventions, you may still really feel like the whole experience was very natural, peaceful, etc. You COULD qualify your natural birth by saying "I had a NCB with AROM", but really, you don't need to give EVERYONE the details...

But, I think that there are few things that are implied when you say you had a natural birth, and those are:
- no pain meds (or only local anesthetic for tearing)
- very limited medical intervention (ie. maybe AROM, even a small episiotomy, as long as it was consented to by the woman)
- the ability of the mother to work with her body
- vaginal birth (obviously, lol)
post #65 of 164
For me, the most important thing was having a live and healthy baby---the mode of delivery was secondary to that.
post #66 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifescholar View Post
For me, the term "natural birth" is reserved for an experience that FEELS natural.
I feel the same, and my induced delivery felt as "natural" (in sensation, and in my body's response) as my non-induced delivery.

Again, I am not trying to convince anyone else that my delivery was natural....but want to point out that my contractions with pitocin (second child) were as manageable--or more manageable--as my natural contractions with my first birth. I believe it is true, for many women, that contractions on pitocin are more painful. But for me, that was simply not the case. It was no problem at all avoiding an epi with my induced labor--much moreso in my first! I like to point that out for other women facing medically necessary induction, and worrying about the pain. It isn't always more painful.
post #67 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifescholar View Post
I have some issues with this, too...

I can not tell you how many times I've heard someone say "Yeah, I had a natural birth. I got the epidural as soon as I could, so I couldn't feel anything and it was great!" Sorry, that's not "natural"....

And then there's me. I had my son vaginally, but there was nothing "natural" about it! Even the 49 hours prior to getting an epidural were not "natural" by my definition of the word!! I was induced from the get-go. Ultimately, my body did its job, but not without a LOT of medical intervention.

Even if I hadn't ended up with an epidural, I would not call it a "natural birth". I would say "I had an induction without pain medication, which ended in a vaginal birth", or something to that effect.

For me, the term "natural birth" is reserved for an experience that FEELS natural. That will not include pain medications, will not include pitocin, and will include me working with my body effectively, feeling supported, and birthing my baby in the way that best suits my body and my baby.

However, I've seen some women go TOO far defining "natural birth", to the point that they were debating if you could still consider it natural if you had pitocin to help the uterus contract after the baby was born....:

To me, I think that the definition of the term "natural" varies a bit from woman to woman. If you have a shot of pitocin, or you have AROM, but no other interventions, you may still really feel like the whole experience was very natural, peaceful, etc. You COULD qualify your natural birth by saying "I had a NCB with AROM", but really, you don't need to give EVERYONE the details...

But, I think that there are few things that are implied when you say you had a natural birth, and those are:
- no pain meds (or only local anesthetic for tearing)
- very limited medical intervention (ie. maybe AROM, even a small episiotomy, as long as it was consented to by the woman)
- the ability of the mother to work with her body
- vaginal birth (obviously, lol)
That's your definition, not mine. I have a friend who had a very, very traumatic unmedicated birth that left her with PTSD. Didn't feel natural at all to her. Her next dc she had an epi and said it was the most amazing, relaxing, wonderful experience in her life. For her that birth was the more natural one, not the one with no pain medication.
post #68 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
That's your definition, not mine. I have a friend who had a very, very traumatic unmedicated birth that left her with PTSD. Didn't feel natural at all to her. Her next dc she had an epi and said it was the most amazing, relaxing, wonderful experience in her life. For her that birth was the more natural one, not the one with no pain medication.
Well, I can certainly understand why the second one would be MORE natural than the first...but I still wouldn't call that NCB.

And I certainly agree that her first experience wasn't "natural". As I said, a birth must FEEL natural to the mother for her to consider it a natural birth.

I'm glad that her second birth was much more enjoyable and positive for her, but being numbed during birth is not "natural" by any stretch of the imagination.
post #69 of 164
QUOTE=lifescholar;9784707]Well, I can certainly understand why the second one would be MORE natural than the first...but I still wouldn't call that NCB.

And I certainly agree that her first experience wasn't "natural". As I said, a birth must FEEL natural to the mother for her to consider it a natural birth.

I'm glad that her second birth was much more enjoyable and positive for her, but being numbed during birth is not "natural" by any stretch of the imagination.[/QUOTE]


But according to your other post her first birth WAS the "natural" one by your definition. She had no pain medication, no intervention, even though it was very traumatic, she was able to work through the pain to push a baby out of her vagina. But at the end of the day, to her it was the most unnatural birth in the world. She still will barely talk about it. The second birth, however, she felt at the end that she had experienced a natural birth with the help of modern medicine to deal with the pain. I'm not going to tell any person how they should feel about or what they should call their birth experience. I personally prefer the terms medicated, unmedicated, partially medicated, c-section birth. That way no one is confused about what type of birth a mom had. Natural and normal are just way too vague of words.
post #70 of 164
natural doesnt always mean good, natural generally means that it is good/better but in the case like the woman above that isnt necesarily true, but that also doesnt make the birth less natural because it wasnt good for her.
post #71 of 164
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
I personally prefer the terms medicated, unmedicated, partially medicated, c-section birth. .
tee hee is the difference between medicated and partially medicated like being pregnant and just a little pregnant? It's either medicated or it's not, right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
That way no one is confused about what type of birth a mom had. Natural and normal are just way too vague of words.
My point is that they have BECOME to vague only because so many people have been sucked up into the mainstream medical model and anything other than major surgery is being labeled Natural by so many.




I'm sorry your friend did not have a good c/b experience. But because she enjoyed her epi birth more than her unmedicated birth does not make it more natural. It makes it a better experience that is all.
post #72 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
tee hee is the difference between medicated and partially medicated like being pregnant and just a little pregnant? It's either medicated or it's not, right?



My point is that they have BECOME to vague only because so many people have been sucked up into the mainstream medical model and anything other than major surgery is being labeled Natural by so many.




I'm sorry your friend did not have a good c/b experience. But because she enjoyed her epi birth more than her unmedicated birth does not make it more natural. It makes it a better experience that is all.
I meant to put fully medicated, as in every intervention that you can have. Sorry, I had a toddler climbing on my back. But you said that a birth had feel natural for a mom to consider it natural. At the end of her second birth she felt she had had a natural birth, I am not going to tell her or anyone else how to label their birth experience. For my friend it was natural for her to desire relief from the overwhelming pain. Yes she tried other methods first such as a warm bath, rocking on a birth ball, even hypnosis (to me hypnosis is very, very unnatural, but that's just me), but when none of those things helped she went with the epi. None of those pain relief options were a natural part of labor.

To me trying to define a natural birth is like trying to define natural foods. To me when I say I eat only all natural foods I mean I eat organic foods. But to someone else it might mean that they eat non-organic fresh fruits and veggies, and to someone else it might mean that only eat locally grown food. That is why I am specific when speaking of our food choices and use the word organic instead of natural so that there is no confusion.

I don't expect people to agree with my definition of natural birth, so that's why I always use more specific terms. For my next birth I will be attemping a vaginal hospital birth with no medication and very little intervention. Now there is no confusion about what type of birth I hope to have.
post #73 of 164
I can understand wanting to clear the definition from a clinical perspective but I don't think you should get judgmental on a personal level against women and how they feel about their births. My birth with an epidural felt magical and beautiful, no less so than my unmedicated births-- I was so connected to my baby-- it's hard to think of it as "unnatural," and I definitely don't think of it as such.
post #74 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowee View Post
I can understand wanting to clear the definition from a clinical perspective but I don't think you should get judgmental on a personal level against women and how they feel about their births. My birth with an epidural felt magical and beautiful, no less so than my unmedicated births-- I was so connected to my baby-- it's hard to think of it as "unnatural," and I definitely don't think of it as such.
nobody is judging... by calling it not a natural birth doesnt mean that it is a bad birth or that the mom is bad for getting it. it just isnt natural.
post #75 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
And the OB (whom I love) was so strange looking in his protective gear, he looked more like he was prepared for a space walk than for catching a baby.


Yes, that would certainly make it feel unnatural.

Feeling natural is not at all the same as being natural, in my opinion. What we expect and can cope with easily are not always natural.

Likewise, I agree with those who said that a natural birth is usually, but not always, better. Some of my main reasons for wanting an unmedicated hospital birth is that I believe that most of the medications cause more unnecessary complications than they prevent. In some cases, interventions can save the baby (and mother's) life and health. I just don't want interventions that will do more long-term harm than good.
post #76 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by almadianna View Post
nobody is judging... by calling it not a natural birth doesnt mean that it is a bad birth or that the mom is bad for getting it. it just isnt natural.
Exactly, not calling medicalized births bad, just not as Mother Nature herself designed for us, hence---not natural births. Man-made anything has never been regarded as natural, from food additives to synthetic drugs and synthetic fibers, etc. And man has made (or taken over, more specifically) the aspect of birth into something a little on the un-natural side...

We really do have to look at the definition of the words without emotional hang-ups attached to them, otherwise there's never going to be any settling of any sort on those descriptions.
post #77 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie9984 View Post
Exactly, not calling medicalized births bad, just not as Mother Nature herself designed for us, hence---not natural births. Man-made anything has never been regarded as natural, from food additives to synthetic drugs and synthetic fibers, etc. And man has made (or taken over, more specifically) the aspect of birth into something a little on the un-natural side...

We really do have to look at the definition of the words without emotional hang-ups attached to them, otherwise there's never going to be any settling of any sort on those descriptions.
So if someone gives birth while sitting in a plastic swimming pool in their nice air conditioned living room is that considered a natural birth? If someone uses a heating pad to dull the aches during labor is that natural? What about soaking in a whirlpool bathtub? If a man-made item is un-natural, then isn't including anything in birth that is not found in nature making that birth un-natural? I'm trying to figure out why some man-made additives to birth are considered natural but others are not.
post #78 of 164
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
But you said that a birth had feel natural for a mom to consider it natural.
Where did I say that?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie9984 View Post
We really do have to look at the definition of the words without emotional hang-ups attached to them, otherwise there's never going to be any settling of any sort on those descriptions.
I think this is part of the issue. People have an emotional hang up that by saying a medicated birth does not mean natural birth, they react as if I am saying that it is somehow a poorer experience. That is not at all the case.


My definition is: Noun: natural childbirth 'nachurul 'chIld`burth
Labour and childbirth without medical intervention; no drugs are given to relieve pain or aid the birth process
post #79 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
But according to your other post her first birth WAS the "natural" one by your definition.
This is what I said:
Quote:
For me, the term "natural birth" is reserved for an experience that FEELS natural. That will not include pain medications, will not include pitocin, and will include me working with my body effectively, feeling supported, and birthing my baby in the way that best suits my body and my baby.
and
Quote:
But, I think that there are few things that are implied when you say you had a natural birth, and those are:
- no pain meds (or only local anesthetic for tearing)
- very limited medical intervention (ie. maybe AROM, even a small episiotomy, as long as it was consented to by the woman)
- the ability of the mother to work with her body
- vaginal birth (obviously, lol)
I am not arguing that for your friend, her medicated birth felt MORE natural than her unmedicated, traumatizing one. I would not presume to tell another woman how she felt!!

But, the fact remains that if I was in her situation, I would not tell other people that my second birth was a "natural childbirth", because it wasn't.
post #80 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie9984 View Post
We really do have to look at the definition of the words without emotional hang-ups attached to them, otherwise there's never going to be any settling of any sort on those descriptions.
I totally agree with this....if your birth wasn't natural, it wasn't natural! If YOU had a positive experience, and you had a good outcome (ie. healthy baby and healthy mom) why does it matter what label gets put on your birth experience?

To me, telling someone you had a natural childbirth is a way to give them FACTS about the birth, in general terms, without having to tell them your entire birth story. I see women all the time who react to "I had a natural birth" with disbelief, "wow, you're amazing", and "I really admire you", etc. That sort of thing really does serve to attach emotions to that definition. It becomes a badge, even if it wasn't intended to be so.

I have NO problems saying that I had a high-intervention birth experience. I know what the reasons were, I know how well I handled myself during labour, and I really enjoyed the experience. I plan to have natural births in the future, and they will be awesome, but I won't be any MORE proud of myself for those than I was for my first.
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