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Seeing a child get spanked in public - Page 3

post #41 of 183
Hmmm, trying to think this through. I would not personally call the cops in the situation described, but continuing my thinking process...

I can call the cops because my neighbor's party is too loud...but not if I see someone hit in public. That's interesting.
post #42 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex_millie View Post
I do plan on practicing it.
that's really sad. So you are PLANNING to look in your child's eyes and HIT him?

To the OP, I witnessed spanking in public today, of a mom who was pulling his 3 y/o's ear because the child was throwing a tantrum. The mom told me that probably the child was tired because he missed his nap and he just wanted attention. I tried to empathize with her and tell her that we all have this kind of moments, but she couldn't care less.
I just can't erase that memory from my mind, of the child screaming in pain and the mom making sure that the ear-pulling was as painful as it could be.
post #43 of 183
That is just soo sad
post #44 of 183
I guess what I'm wondering after reading over all this is this: Is it appropriate and productive for us as informed people/parents to audit/judge/condemn the actions of those who are in all likelihood less informed than us?

How does casting aspersions and judgment on strangers make the world a better place? Unfortunately we really can't make everyone as perfect as we wish we were. There tends to be a lot in this life that we have to simply "let go".
post #45 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderinggypsy View Post
I guess what I'm wondering after reading over all this is this: Is it appropriate and productive for us as informed people/parents to audit/judge/condemn the actions of those who are in all likelihood less informed than us?

How does casting aspersions and judgment on strangers make the world a better place? Unfortunately we really can't make everyone as perfect as we wish we were. There tends to be a lot in this life that we have to simply "let go".
Unfortunately, I think you are right. But I believe that the OP's question was: can we DO something about it?
Maybe it's a first step towards a positive change. In my country, when a man beats his wife nobody intervenes, because, well, it's none of their business. When the situation is normalized, people don't ask too many questions about it.
post #46 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderinggypsy View Post
I guess what I'm wondering after reading over all this is this: Is it appropriate and productive for us as informed people/parents to audit/judge/condemn the actions of those who are in all likelihood less informed than us?

How does casting aspersions and judgment on strangers make the world a better place? Unfortunately we really can't make everyone as perfect as we wish we were. There tends to be a lot in this life that we have to simply "let go".
I dont think it is productive at all. like I said before the only thing to do would be to give the less informed all the resources you can to help them be better people not only for their children but for themselves also
post #47 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama
We would call the police for assault on an adult, why is assault on a child so much less important?
[...]I think it's interesting that our judgment of what constitutes harm is looser for children, and babies, than it is for adults. I think as regards physical assault, the standard should be exactly the same. Everyone has the right to dignity, bodily integrity, and freedom from intentional infliction of pain.
Nodding in agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angieluvsramon
Do you know how many times I have been cooking and my husband comes and tries to sneek a piece of food and I smacked his hand away???? what about when my husband smacks my butt?? Is that assault too???
You're kidding, right? I mean, are you really doing these things to cause pain and shame, for punitive reasons? Do you or your husband feel scared or emotionally hurt when these things are done to you? If so, then yes, that is abusive. If not, it is a completely different thing from spanking as a disiplinary tool.
post #48 of 183
nooo Im not kidding but Im not gonna get into this. I have explained my reasoning. I dont think spanking a child is the right thing to do, but I think those of you telling me it is ASSAULT are taking it to the extreme!
post #49 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by transylvania_mom View Post
that's really sad. So you are PLANNING to look in your child's eyes and HIT him?

To the OP, I witnessed spanking in public today, of a mom who was pulling his 3 y/o's ear because the child was throwing a tantrum. The mom told me that probably the child was tired because he missed his nap and he just wanted attention. I tried to empathize with her and tell her that we all have this kind of moments, but she couldn't care less.
I just can't erase that memory from my mind, of the child screaming in pain and the mom making sure that the ear-pulling was as painful as it could be.
Wait, so did the mom spank him or pull his ear? Because I *personally* would consider pulling on a child's ear for punishment as an abusive behavior. I'm not sure that it would be considered chidl abuse by the authorites however unless it left marks or an injury. My parents may have spanked and slapped us on occasion, but they NEVER did those kinds of things. IMO my mom practiced a lot of GD besides the spanking.
post #50 of 183
I would run up to her and smack her on the bum and tell her not to hit. :
post #51 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeschoolingmama View Post
I would run up to her and smack her on the bum and tell her not to hit. :

At which point she would probably turn around and smack the crap outta you. Not a good move.
post #52 of 183
How terrible.
Where I live it isnt legal to spank or beat or hit your children in any way, so I would be tempted to tell her that she was breaking the law - but in reality I would probably be so shaken up that I wouldnt know what to do.
post #53 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2alicia View Post
when i witness corporal punishment, I just feel sick. I feel terrible for the child. The other issue for me is if my daughter is with me, I just hate for her to be exposed to such violence especially since it is a form of violence that isn't recognized as violence by most people, so most people are just standing there not reacting at all to what is happening as if it is perfectly fine for the parent to spank the child.
I agree. Violence against children is not only legal in our society, it is normalized. To me, that is heartbreaking and wrong.

Personally, I favor legislation protecting ALL family members from being hit. But I would not call CPS or the police in the situation witnessed by the OP. The police exist to enforce laws. Unfortunately, it is legal to hit small children and to hit with objects. The only law I am aware of on this topic actually affirmatively condones "reasonable physical force" in "disciplining" children. We don't even have the limitations that Canada has (no hitting children under 2 and over 12 and no use of objects) and we certainly don't have comprehensive protection for kids as exists in many countries (children have the right to not be hit, period). I have heard people say that spanking is illegal in the U.S. but this just isn't true. It's illegal in certain contexts (school in some states, daycare, etc.) but it generally is perfectly legal in the U.S. at this time.

So at this point in time, I think we are left with: 1) education to help people choose non-violent discipline and to stop hitting if they are; 2) activism/lobbying to make violence against children illegal (if you favor that,and I know that many people here do not); 2) offering assistance to the parent doing the hitting in a non-threatening, non-judgmental way; and 3) shielding our own kids from seeing violence and talking about why it is wrong. Some people will directly address the hitter in a confrontational manner but that is not my personal style.

Anyway, I just don't think we can have it both ways -- legalized hitting of kids but calling the police when we see people doing this. IN any event, I personally favor non-penal laws in this area, which is another topic. I recognize that there are degrees of abuse but I do agree with those who have opined that hitting a child (unless it's an accident or somehow in self-defense) is always an abusive act (not legally but definitely an abuse of power and a violation of the child).
post #54 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderinggypsy View Post
I guess what I'm wondering after reading over all this is this: Is it appropriate and productive for us as informed people/parents to audit/judge/condemn the actions of those who are in all likelihood less informed than us?

How does casting aspersions and judgment on strangers make the world a better place? Unfortunately we really can't make everyone as perfect as we wish we were. There tends to be a lot in this life that we have to simply "let go".
Would you say the same about a man hitting his wife in public?
post #55 of 183
I was kidding I was just showing how silly it is to hit someone for hitting. That is only what I would want to do :
post #56 of 183
[QUOTE=thismama;9761889]Would you say the same about a man hitting his wife in public?[/QUOT

you cant change the world! She is trying to say we should not pass judgment on other people and sometimes there is just nothing we could do! As for if she saw a man hitting a woman in public that is against the law...Spanking your child is not against the law and in most cases not physically harmful, just hurts their feelings (which isnt any better) but that is reality. Unless sombody actually BEATS their kids
post #57 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I did not say I would call the police, that was somebody else. I just said I think it's really interesting that we don't consider child assault worthy of a police call. I think about all the time cops and firetrucks spend rushing to false burglar alarms sounding on business, and I think our chidren's safety should be prioritized a little better.

CPS also does other interventions besides child removal, such as parenting classes etc.
ITA. Most people wouldn't hesitate to call the cops if a man smacked his girlfriend/wife (sorry, "tapped" but everyone's willing to turn a blind eye and defend hitting children. I get that it's not illegal to spank, but even when parents are obviously crossing the line, people are still so hesitant to do something.

That said, a couple weeks ago I saw a mom hitting her little one, who couldn't have been more than 3, and I didn't say or do anything and I still feel bad about it : I couldn't see exactly what was happening because they were in a booth, but I could her her hissing and smacking

Quote:
that's really sad. So you are PLANNING to look in your child's eyes and HIT him?
Very sad : I admit I've spanked my older dd in the past, and I feel nothing but shame and guilt about it. I can't imagine actually planning to hit your kid
post #58 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb View Post
ITA. Most people wouldn't hesitate to call the cops if a man smacked his girlfriend/wife (sorry, "tapped" but everyone's willing to turn a blind eye and defend hitting children. I get that it's not illegal to spank, but even when parents are obviously crossing the line, people are still so hesitant to do something.

That said, a couple weeks ago I saw a mom hitting her little one, who couldn't have been more than 3, and I didn't say or do anything and I still feel bad about it : I couldn't see exactly what was happening because they were in a booth, but I could her her hissing and smacking



Very sad : I admit I've spanked my older dd in the past, and I feel nothing but shame and guilt about it. I can't imagine actually planning to hit your kid
so smacking a childs hand warrant's a call to the cops and/or cps????? Nobody is saying it is ok but unfortunatly that is the way some people choose to parent their children. As for you spanking your older child do you consider what you did to her assaulting her, how about abusing her?? What if sombody saw you and called cps?? would that be appropriate for the way you "assaulted" your child?????? Not trying to be rude I just hate spanking being refered to as assaulting your child.
post #59 of 183
yuck. I'm sorry for that child. :

I hope that mother gets help.
post #60 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
Please be reminded that advocating or defending physical punishment is never allowed on the GD forum or on MDC (see user agreement).
I've read this whole thread, and I can't see where anyone here has defended physical punishment. If you're referring to the poster who shared how wonderful her parents were, in spite of sometimes using physical punishment (and yes, I saw her post before she deleted parts of it), I can't see how any of that could be construed as defending physical punishment.

I think you can defend people without condoning every. single. thing they do. How can we call ourselves GD if we're not willing to extend the GD attitude beyond our own families, and share the compassion with all the other people who lack the resources we have?

If your older child hits your younger, do you automatically call CPS to get services for him? Would CPS be your first resort in getting help for your child or yourself? If not, then why treat a complete stranger as any less human?

In response to the people who don't think it was over-the-top to call police on a mom who smacked her toddler's hand, because wouldn't we do the same if it happened to an adult -- no, I WOULDN'T call police if I saw a man smack his wife on the hand (or a wife smack her husband on the hand). I'd figure that was their deal.

And the analogy that it's okay to call the cops if your neighbor has a loud party, so why not to call CPS -- well, I see a few holes in that. Not that I'd call the cops over a loud party: keeping up good relations with my neighbors means more to me than the convenience of a quiet night. If I was really bugged, I'd just go over and ask them to quiet down.

But here's the difference between the disturbing the peace accusation and the child abuse accusation: the latter has more potential to devastate the accused and his/her family.

While I realize thismama's right in saying that CPS provides other services besides child removal -- from my understanding these services are not always offered as a free choice. Even in cases where the services really are optional, and the parents really don't have to sign the careplan, some caseworkers aren't careful to make sure the parents know they have a right to refuse ... then once the plan is signed, the parents are stuck with having to comply.

CPS may seem like a smorgasbord of help to some parents -- but some would rather select their own buffet, so to speak. I can think of lots of other people I'd rather turn to for help and counseling, than a CPS worker.
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