“Yes,they need more money for water and food and that's why it infruiates me that 5 billion went to vaccinations instead of put towards clean water and food. We need to help people get the basics first then worry about things like vaccines (of course we obviously do not feel the same about vaccines), in general”
But they have different purposes, in some senses. Vaccines prevent against these diseases where there is no clean water and where it cannot be provided immediately, such as in emergency situations. Both are needed, especially in the short term! Neither can replace the other.
“FWIW, I wasn't putting down volunteers at all (that was all your assumption)”
It wasn’t an assumption. First of all, it’s not volunteers who do that work, it is usually paid professionals. Volunteers are (generally) not decision-makers and make up a minority of people working on these issues. And second of all, governments do have big policies, but they also follow request systems. It takes them a long time to deal with attitude surveys, but they do do such surveys, and they do also give discretionary funding. And this is where field-level staff and HQ staff in aid organizations have a lot of influence over how the money is spent.
“I have a great deal of respect for them. I was questioning policies, Gov' funding ect.”
There has been a misunderstanding, because I thought that you understood how policies were made. Now I see that you believed that big governments (presumably in the hands of Big Pharma?) make all or most of these decisions.
It’s not true.
Just like not all pediatricians are part of some huge conspiracy to dole out drugs to babies.
These systems of vaccine distribution, in rich countries and poor alike, are made up of human beings who usually (though not always) are trying to help other people and make a living while they do it. Maybe there are Mr. Burnses out there plotting all our deaths (not that anyone here thinks there are) but most of us who are carrying out these policies are doing it in the best of faiths, to save lives.
If you don't want to deal with anger, you don't have to. But you might want to consider how your blanket statements make people who work in these fields (the medical field, the humanitarian field, the government) feel.
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Sorry, but this argument doesn't quite work right. Vaccination rates and overall list of vaccines vary by country. Europe has high vaccine rates, but a shorter list of vaccines. Find a country that vaxes with every vaccine used in the U.S. and THEN we can compare apples to apples.
Rates aren't the only piece.
And I bet if you lived in the U.S. you would turn down some of the additional vaxes on our list. |
Deborah, first of all, we do selectively vaccinate. I think that vaccination in and of itself can be a good thing for a great many people, but I do not think that all vaccines are good for all people. Some people shouldn’t get any vaccines, and there are some vaccines that nobody should get (as they are right now). Just to clear that up. J
Second of all, since the non-active ingredients of most vaccines contain a lot of the supposedly evil toxins that so many here go on and on about, shouldn’t we think that Europe’s short (but growing) list of vaccines should have some effect on cancer rates? Unless you think there’s some threshold that the US has surpassed, but that Europe hasn’t? Or am I totally misunderstanding your argument?
And moreover, if we look at steadily rising childhood cancer rates, I think it’s important to note that we haven’t always had more vaccines than Europe.
And anyway, why, among all the changes in lifestyle that we see here in the United States and around the world, would you single out vaccines? I mean… why not car exhaust?
“I have seen babies out in public that could be as young as 3-4 weeks old. I saw one mom at a store flinging around this tiny baby and it just made me so sad. The poor baby looked so overwhelmed.”
Well I flew across three continents with my eight-week-old. We also took her to the airport to see off her dad when she was three weeks old. I won’t go into our specific circumstances but in short, it was lose our livelihoods, or give birth in the country with one of the worst infant mortality rates in the world, or be separated from one another for a year. And then of course there was getting her passport, for which both parents have to be present, for which we had to go to… oh, you get the picture. My cousin actually has more than one kid. In order to fulfill her obligations to her older kids, she sometimes had to take out the tiny baby in public places. Somehow, I think she manages to live with herself. No flinging, of course, but our babies are pretty exposed. We also take our kids to farms. My child actually had a farm dog stick its tongue in her mouth before she was two months old. Some would call me a bad mother, but for me, it’s just another kind of vaccination. Heh.
Regarding Indonesia: It’s crowded but it’s not THAT crowded. I would venture to guess, however, that there is a strong chance, given different vaccination rates, different effectiveness, and different access to treatment, as well as genetic differences and other habits (I know that Indonesians eat with their hands, and though they wash their hands, I don’t think all the kids always sing “Twinkle Twinkle” and use antibacterial soap, you know?), could be a good reason to think that their rates of pertussis just might be different to ours. It’s just different. Our rate might even be higher. I wouldn’t count on a study in one country to work in another one, especially in such different ones.
The image of her was coloring my response so I should have thought how it would read. My bigger question was about how those babies were exposed and died and wondered about the public factor. They very much recommend keeping babies home for 2 months and although that might then coincide neatly with the first immunizations (ugh), I think it's a good thought to have out there. Whatever choices someone then makes is purely personal, right up there with immunization.
: when I think about them playing on the guilt of parents to protect their babies from a disease when the vax doesn't work that way!
But I'll link for those who are interested : 
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