Mothering › Forums › Natural Family Living › Books, Music and Other Media › Intelligent response to the Golden Compass debacle
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Intelligent response to the Golden Compass debacle  

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
My friend Rob sent this email to me; I asked him if I could pass it on, and he said yes.

Long story short, he got an email from his cousin basically saying that taking one's child to see The Golden Compass was tantamount to having them burn in Hell. This was his reply:

"Cousin,"

God made us responsible, thinking beings. No matter the metaphor in the Bible, we are not sheep, and God did not intend us to be as such.


To that end, over the last several years I've investigated several belief systems including atheism. I've studied the logical arguments for and against the existence of God, and I simply think atheism is not the truth. It is certainly not evil. Hundreds of thousands of atheists live good lives, contributing to the good of society, doing good works for others. No great atrocity such as war or genocide has been committed in the name of atheism.


On the other hand, Jesus is probably shamed by the number of wars and crimes committed in his name. As you well know, no lives are saved, no one is forgiven, and no one is converted through violence, anger, or protest. People become believers through the observation of true Christian lives and through the grace of God.


Reading a book written by an atheist will not make me an atheist and it will not add evil to the world; and if its a good story, I'll probably appreciate it. If I think the film is appropriate for the age of my son, I'll let him watch it.

Satan does not work through atheism; that would be too cliché. Satan works within each of us, subverting our desires, our pride, to his ends. We see this everyday: in the early loss of naivety in of our children, in our consumer culture, in the loss of pleasantries and manners between strangers, in the violence and sex actively taught in every type of media possible, and in the selfish actions of ourselves and others.


As you know, it is a responsibility for each of us to recognize and think about good and evil. We must make decisions based on our beliefs, hopefully based on the example Jesus set for us. However, again, we are not sheep. God does not want us to mindlessly walk through our lives following the directions of any church. To believe so is to underestimate the grace and plan of God, to underestimate God's faith in humanity, to undermine the gifts God has given us.


I teach high school, so you can imagine that I occasionally run into parents who want to ban books for various reasons: bad words, witchcraft, violence... I've never run into a parent who wanted to ban a book they had actually read and understood. One of the most frightening things in this world is the people who think the world is black and white, who make decisions without thinking, who make decisions without even having a reasonable amount of information.


Countless groups have banned the Harry Potter books because "they promote witchcraft." Oddly enough, anyone who has actually investigated witchcraft knows that it has nothing to do with Satan or evil. It's about Earth spirits, not my cup of tea, but whatever... The Harry Potter books engage the imagination, they teach kids about possibilities, and they help kids realize the possibility of miracles in a world that seems void of them. They are excellent books about friendship, loyalty, and the power of good over evil; yet they are banned by various church groups because the characters can do magic. What a shame.


How about Star Wars. Do you remember watching that as a kid? Banned as anti-Christian. Too bad because the whole concept of the Force is a wonderful way to start a conversation about how God interacts with our world. These movies make it pretty clear that George Lucas is some type of Christian, and yet his films have been banned by various church organizations.


I've read the information about The Golden Compass. I've also read enough to know that the "killing of God" that the author discusses in his interview might be interpreted in several ways when reading the books. The author has an agenda: He does not like or agree with organized religion. Giving the fact that most major wars and a considerable amount of violence is done in the name of one religion or another, I'm not sure I blame him. I don't, however, agree with him.


I will probably see this movie in one fashion or another. When I see it, more than ever I'll appreciate the fact that God gave me the ability to recognize evil for myself. If the story is good and I enjoy the film, I'll probably see the next one. If the author's agenda is heavy-handed, I won't support him in the future.


Best Wishes,
-Rob



Just thought I'd share.
post #2 of 32
I love it!
post #3 of 32
I'm afraid that letter contains some factual errors. George Lucas is not a Christian (he self-defines as a 'Buddhist Methodist', whatever that means!), and the mythology of the Star Wars movies is based consciously and deliberately off Joseph Campbell's 'Hero with a Thousand Faces'; hence any similarity between Star Wars and Christian themes is an accident of monomyth, not a deliberate attempt by Lucas to evangelise Christianity. That is not to say that the Force cannot be used to discuss Christianity; but it is incorrect to say that the movies 'make it pretty clear' that George Lucas is a Christian.

I've read the Harry Potter series, and can recollect no reference to Earth spirits whatsoever.

I agree with some of Rob's argument (particularly that those who cry loudest for the banning of books tend to be people who haven't even read said books!), but I think the factual errors in his email let it down.
post #4 of 32
I read an interview with the director of the movie. (recent Atlantic Monthly I believe) The movie version of the book had references to "God" removed. So instead of kid vs. God and church, its kid vs. "an organization of bad people" ... or something like that.

It was defiantly tamed down to make the movie "commercially viable":
post #5 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
I'm afraid that letter contains some factual errors. George Lucas is not a Christian (he self-defines as a 'Buddhist Methodist', whatever that means!), and the mythology of the Star Wars movies is based consciously and deliberately off Joseph Campbell's 'Hero with a Thousand Faces'; hence any similarity between Star Wars and Christian themes is an accident of monomyth, not a deliberate attempt by Lucas to evangelise Christianity. That is not to say that the Force cannot be used to discuss Christianity; but it is incorrect to say that the movies 'make it pretty clear' that George Lucas is a Christian.

I've read the Harry Potter series, and can recollect no reference to Earth spirits whatsoever.

I agree with some of Rob's argument (particularly that those who cry loudest for the banning of books tend to be people who haven't even read said books!), but I think the factual errors in his email let it down.
He didn't say that Harry Potter had references to Earth spirits he said if you investigate witches and magic you find that it's not necessarily the work of the devil.

Methodist is Christian even with Buddhist in front of it.

I think you might not be seeing the forest for the trees. His broader point is what's important here. I thought it was well written and makes good points.

I also read the Atlantic Monthly article and was disappointed. I think the movie is perfectly cast for the book and it's sad to think the cast is probably wasted on a watered down script.
post #6 of 32
What a great response!

Yeah, no earth spirits on HP. Not gonna comment on star wars, as I have never watched it, and probably never will.
post #7 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy View Post
I read an interview with the director of the movie. (recent Atlantic Monthly I believe) The movie version of the book had references to "God" removed. So instead of kid vs. God and church, its kid vs. "an organization of bad people" ... or something like that.

It was defiantly tamed down to make the movie "commercially viable":

I figured they'd screw it up somehow wrt that... I need to re-read it again before I see it.
post #8 of 32
Yeah, but Buddhist Methodist. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't work. The religions aren't compatible. I don't know enough about Buddhism to say whether you can be a Buddhist and a Methodist, but I do know enough about Methodism to know you can't be a Methodist and a Buddhist. From my reading, the reason he self-defines that way is that he was brought up Methodist, but swayed heavily (philosophically) by Eastern religions, largely due to the Star Wars movies. So I think he keeps the 'Methodist' as a carry-over, nothing more. Certainly I don't see how you can reconcile two such different religions--reincarnation vs. not, monotheism vs. not, completely different philosophies of nature...?

As for the Harry Potter witchcraft, given that it's fictional, it's a bit of a stretch to say it's 'based on' a philosophy (Earth spirits) which is never even mentioned in the books! Given that the witchcraft performed in Harry Potter bears no resemblance to actual witchcraft (ask one of the MDC Pagan Mamas to produce a Patronus, if you're doubtful), why should its origins be similar to actual witchcraft? It's a HUGE stretch. I have no beef with the magic used in the Harry Potter books, but I certainly wouldn't state it developed from 'Earth spirits' when there is no textual evidence to support that. If Rob is wishing to validate witchcraft in general from a Christian perspective, why bring Harry Potter up at all? It's FICTION.

I'll bow out of this thread now, so as not to cause a ruckus; I don't want to turn this into a religious debate.
post #9 of 32
I think you may be misreading that particular section of the email. I didn't read his email the same way you did and I don't wish to create an argument here either.

The author of the that email doesn't say the Harry Potter books deal with Earth Spirits. He's saying that if you investigate witchcraft it's not about Satan worshipping but rather about Earth spirits and that Earth spirits are not his (the email author's) cup of tea. The reason he brings up HP is because it's another popular book which has been subject to protests by certain religious groups.
post #10 of 32
Its kind of funny...because for all the hoopla about the books being about "killing god"...i just finished the series a few days ago, turns out its a love story. Who knew.


Katherine
post #11 of 32
and boy did I sob for the last 1/3 of the last book...
post #12 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by owensmom View Post
and boy did I sob for the last 1/3 of the last book...
ohmigosh...me too! I had been reading the book outloud w/ my son, but ended up reading ahead...i didnt expect the emotion...i dont think i would have been able to read it outloud.


Katherine
post #13 of 32
I've never run into a parent who wanted to ban a book they had actually read and understood.



Yep




I really liked the email.

I'm still reading the series. So I'll let you know later what I think of it. I'm disappointed that they decided to edit the movies though.
post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
I've never run into a parent who wanted to ban a book they had actually read and understood.
:v And that's where we need to start. Before even getting into different interpretations of the book(from people and the movie) just read it themselves.
post #15 of 32
Hitler was an atheist, and so were the Soviets, so you can't say that no war or genocide has been committed by atheists. They're as likely to be evil as anyone else. That said, I would read a book before I forbade my kids to read it. Most people who hate Harry Potter have only heard rumors that cannot be found in the actual books.
post #16 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyrick View Post
Hitler was an atheist
No, he wasn't.


As far as Star Wars goes, I thought the "force" was very Taoist, not Christian.
post #17 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusdebi View Post
No, he wasn't.

Yes, he was. He dabbled in spiritualism and the occult because it was very fashionable and his cronies loved it, but the man put his faith only in science, not even humanism, which made it very easy to do what he did. Atheist humanists have morality codes, like Marx did. But ultimately, Hitler believed in only science and technology which made him fixate on eugenics. He downplayed the role of the human spirit, religious beliefs, etc, to up-play the role of superior genes. He disliked Christianity because it was so heavily founded in Judaism, and tolerated other religious beliefs if he felt he could slant them to his goal.

So, I'm just saying, atheists are no better and no worse than anyone else. Christians had the Spanish Inquisition. I could go on.
post #18 of 32
Another vote for Hitler was NOT an atheist. I have seen this debate sooo many times!

Just read Mein Kampf.

Here's just a few tibits:

Quote:
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
(vol1 chp 2)

Quote:
"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, the sustenance of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe."
(vol 1, chp 9)

Quote:

"The result of all racial crossing is therefore in brief always the following: (a) Lowering of the level of the higher race; (b) Physical and intellectual regression and hence the beginning ofa slowly but surely progressing sickness. To bring about such a development is, then, nothing else but to sin against the will of the eternal creator."
(vol 1, chp 11)


I have about 100 more of those highlighted in my version if you would like a few more!

Hitler was many things, but I do not think an atheist was one of them. This debate always turns into the "no true scotsman" fallacy...at least in my experience. Christians often say "he wasn't a Christian...look at what he did/said...x,y,z...etcetc....that's not in the Bible/that's not Christian."

And i think there are grains of truth in there. He probably wasn't 100% Christian or 100% any belief. But we know for sure he was not an atheist; he did believe in some creating power. Or perhaps he was atheistic towards all proposed Gods but still believed in the possibility of a God (perhaps making him more agnostic?) but there is just no evidence of this.


of course then we get into how supposedly Hitler poured out his REAL feelings to Rauschning and Bormann (the quotes people who claim 'Hitler is an atheist' use allllll the time). IMO that's total bunk; there is no evidence that these men who closer to Hitler than Hermann Göring, Rudolf Hess and the like. But there is plenty of evidence that these men who claimed to know the true personal spiritual beliefs of Hitler were, in fact, not even close to him at all! (interesting discussion of this here: http://www.nobeliefs.com/HitlerSources.htm)

(of course next usually comes the "But Mein Kampf was a political work and he was trying to be 'fashionable'" again, IMO, that's completely wrong. It is his most personal work and I would definitely engage in an argument of evidence here and feel the idea of MK was personal and more true to his feelings than any other will always win out)


Ok so after all that babbling: IMO, Hitler was not a Christian as the word is generally used today. He may have been closer to cult follower; however, religion is not black and white. It's not: "You are not a Christian as I view them so you are an atheist." Atheism simply means no belief in existance of a high power/God/whatever you want to call it. ALl of the evidence says Hitler was most certainly NOT an atheist.
post #19 of 32
Thank you, carriebft.
I was raised as an atheist, and the whole "Hitler was an atheist!" argument has been around as long as I can remember - as a way to demonize atheists. As has the argument that atheists have no morals.
It gets old.
post #20 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
(of course next usually comes the "But Mein Kampf was a political work and he was trying to be 'fashionable'" again, IMO, that's completely wrong. It is his most personal work and I would definitely engage in an argument of evidence here and feel the idea of MK was personal and more true to his feelings than any other will always win out)

.
Hey, the first word of the text is "Mein." It's not "Unsere." It's not "A" struggle, but a very personal one.

Thanks for the info!! One question I had, though, is whether we have information about Hitler's continued belief in a Creator past the publication of MK?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Books, Music and Other Media
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Natural Family Living › Books, Music and Other Media › Intelligent response to the Golden Compass debacle