Why WOULDN'T a man want to restore??? - Page 2

[Stinkerbell]

I guess the suggestion that he might WANT to restore is more bizarre, to me. (I do not mean that offensively... )

having another surgical procedure to "undo" an unauthorized surgical procedure is defeating it's own purpose, right?? I'm sure the prospect of anyone coming near his genitals with sharp instruments and the promise of a recovery period holds very little appeal.

[jenP]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Its like watching a child grow, you do not see the change, but out of town relatives are amazed.

Sorry, I know you're just comparing the progress with restoring to the changes in growing children, but I couldn't help picturing showing your restoration progress to the out of town relatives "Wow, look at that glans coverage! That's really changed since last summer!"

Sorry. juvenile humor.

on topic, anyway, my husband doesn't want to go around with contraptions taped to his dick for months on end. Thinks it was barbaric and stupid that he was cut as a baby, but what's done is done and that's what he's got. Kind of like not all women who have a mastectomy have reconstructive surgery to restore the breast.

Jen

[Arwyn]

Originally Posted by Stinkerbell

I guess the suggestion that he might WANT to restore is more bizarre, to me. (I do not mean that offensively... )

having another surgical procedure to "undo" an unauthorized surgical procedure is defeating it's own purpose, right?? I'm sure the prospect of anyone coming near his genitals with sharp instruments and the promise of a recovery period holds very little appeal.

Just FYI, restoration can be a totally DIY deal, no sharp instruments or surgeries required.


I like the mastectomy comparison. Thanks for that!

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Stinkerbell

I guess the suggestion that he might WANT to restore is more bizarre, to me. (I do not mean that offensively... )

having another surgical procedure to "undo" an unauthorized surgical procedure is defeating it's own purpose, right?? I'm sure the prospect of anyone coming near his genitals with sharp instruments and the promise of a recovery period holds very little appeal.

Surgery is NOT an effective way to resore.

Restoration is by tensioning the skin to promote cell diviison and growth. It can be a simple as pulling on your foreskin. But a LOT of skin was taken away form us, so it takes a long time to grow it back. Even longer if you only do it occassionally.

If your happy as you are, stay that way. When i found out about restoration, something inside compelled me to do it. That should be the reason for restoring. It takes patience and committment. Hard to do if you are ambivalent about it.

Regards

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by orangebird

I don't know

I am married to a circumcised man. He is anti circ and we have left our sons intact.

I have had intact and cut partners and there is no doubt that intact feels better. Circed feels like being violated by a blunt object.

DP has told me he is willing to restore. I showed him a bunch of sites with tips, instructions, testimonies, things to buy, etc. He still has never taken that first step.

He knows how much I coil from every sexual advance, and he knows why. It just hurts. But he still, knowing all this, the fact I would be more likely to want to have sex, he still hasn't started. I have no idea

Orangebird, if sex with your husband feels like a violation to you, I feel like more foreskin might not solve it. Feeling violated is just such a huge emotional thing that if seems odd to me that you attribute it entirely to the circumcision, and not to other factors. It seems to me that that particular feeling, and the responses you describe to sexual advances, might leave both you and your partner in paralyzing amounts of emotional pain. If that's really how you feel about sex with your partner, I feel like both of you need help, and foreskin restoration isn't gonna do the job all by itself.

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

Orangebird, if sex with your husband feels like a violation to you, I feel like more foreskin might not solve it. Feeling violated is just such a huge emotional thing that if seems odd to me that you attribute it entirely to the circumcision, and not to other factors. It seems to me that that particular feeling, and the responses you describe to sexual advances, might leave both you and your partner in paralyzing amounts of emotional pain. If that's really how you feel about sex with your partner, I feel like both of you need help, and foreskin restoration isn't gonna do the job all by itself.

You don't understand. If every time you have sex you end up in pain, you DO recoil at the idea, and if he goes ahead anyway (and you give in because, you know, you love him and feel guilty at the idea of rejecting him) you DO feel violated, because he is causing you PAIN and doesn't seem to care as long as his needs are fulfilled. This is very unlikely to be happening if he wasn't circumcised and could make love the way he is supposed to, the pain causes the recoiling, it's a learned reaction.

And yes, the emotional pain is huge. THANK YOU MIL. :

[Ecstatic]

I'm sorry, I don't want to step one anyone's toes ... but, I feel that a partner who goes ahead ANYWAY, knowing that you're in pain ... is a problem in and of itself. Sex is mutual, and going ahead while a partner is in pain is wrong on so many levels. I would feel violated then too. That would also be the last time I had sex with my partner. Seriously. It would also be, quite possibly, the end of our relationship if he continued to not understand that 1. sex is mutual, 2. together, we need to work out a way of having sex without pain. I don't necessarily think restoration is the only option to number 2. I'm sure it can be. But, I'm also sure there are others. While, yes, they make take more work, consideration, and a re-learning of certain behaviours for the man ... but, honestly, I would hope that would be preferable to inflicting pain one one's partner.

I'm really sorry anyone has to go through something like that. It's just not right.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

You don't understand. If every time you have sex you end up in pain, you DO recoil at the idea, and if he goes ahead anyway (and you give in because, you know, you love him and feel guilty at the idea of rejecting him) you DO feel violated, because he is causing you PAIN and doesn't seem to care as long as his needs are fulfilled. This is very unlikely to be happening if he wasn't circumcised and could make love the way he is supposed to, the pain causes the recoiling, it's a learned reaction.

And yes, the emotional pain is huge. THANK YOU MIL. :

It makes perfect sense to me that, if sex always resulted in pain for you, you would recoil at the idea. I understand that.

But if my partner was causing me pain and didn't seem to care, so long as his sexual needs were met, I don't understand why I would look at the situation and determine that foreskin restoration was the solution. That's a huge relationship problem you've described there. Gigantic. Awesomely painful. Way more complicated than the geography of his penis.

There is no one way that guys are supposed to make love, because all women are different. If what he's doing doesn't work for you, and you can't convince him to try to alter his technique so that sex feels better for you, then foreskin restoration sounds to me like it's going to take him from a lousy lover with a circumcised penis to a lousy lover with restored foreskin.

Foreskin makes sex different, but it sure doesn't guarantee that sex will be good. Some uncut guys are delightful. Some aren't. There's a lot of variation in the human species, and sex is (in my experience) not about the genitalia, but about the people who have them.

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by MeepyCat

It makes perfect sense to me that, if sex always resulted in pain for you, you would recoil at the idea. I understand that.

But if my partner was causing me pain and didn't seem to care, so long as his sexual needs were met, I don't understand why I would look at the situation and determine that foreskin restoration was the solution. That's a huge relationship problem you've described there. Gigantic. Awesomely painful. Way more complicated than the geography of his penis.

There is no one way that guys are supposed to make love, because all women are different. If what he's doing doesn't work for you, and you can't convince him to try to alter his technique so that sex feels better for you, then foreskin restoration sounds to me like it's going to take him from a lousy lover with a circumcised penis to a lousy lover with restored foreskin.

Foreskin makes sex different, but it sure doesn't guarantee that sex will be good. Some uncut guys are delightful. Some aren't. There's a lot of variation in the human species, and sex is (in my experience) not about the genitalia, but about the people who have them.

No, you've completely missed the point again. Sex with circumcised men is different than with intact men, there is tremendous friction with a circ'd man (and sometimes with an intact man with a condom on, as that also ruins the gliding action of the foreskin), that just isn't there with an intact man. It doesn't seem to be possible for circ'd men to "change their technique" if they need to pound hard to get anywhere. It's just not going to happen, because they don't have the equipment necessary to do it i.e. a sensitive glans covered by a foreskin which also acts as a roller bearing to prevent friction.

If your sex life is great with a circ'd penis, that's fine - be interesting to see if you say the same thing in 30 years time when the effects are greater on both of you.

Of course not all intact men are going to be great lovers, but they've got all their equipment and a bad intact lover isn't going to be anywhere near as painful as a bad circ'd one.

There's a reason why there are so many women in the US with "female sexual dysfunction", and most of it is not their fault at all. It's about time that someone did a proper research project on it - but of course that would mean stopping the cutting, and there's too much money in that, so it won't happen,

[transformed]

they like to think their penises are perfect. It's kind of like kicking a man in the balls to tell him he should restore.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

No, you've completely missed the point again. Sex with circumcised men is different than with intact men, there is tremendous friction with a circ'd man ,

So get some lube.

[Mommiska]

Originally Posted by transformed

So get some lube.

That isn't going to solve all problems.

If you have a circed guy who needs lots and lots of hard pounding away in order to climax, you are going to have to (I would imagine) use loads and loads of lube - and if he continues to take a long time, you are going to need to re-apply.

And that's going to really kill the mood, right? So this poor guy - who, again, needs lots of hard pounding in order to climax, has to start over again...

Just buying (and using) lots and lots and lots of lube is NOT going to solve the problem for some couples. It might for some, but it won't for all.

[transformed]

It pretty much solves the problems. Applying lube doesnt kill the mood. Looking at a man as if he is deformed kills the mood.

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by transformed

It pretty much solves the problems. Applying lube doesnt kill the mood. Looking at a man as if he is deformed kills the mood.

Actually, getting pounded until you are sore, lube or not, and knowing that the after effects are going to last for days are pretty much the mood killer. So much so that the "mood" doesn't happen and gets avoided at all costs.

Sorry, like it or not, circumcision is the cause of a LOT of difficulties, and it's this refusal to recognise it that allows mothers to keep on cutting. Some feelings are going to have to get hurt somewhere along the line, because people HAVE to know and recognise that cutting up a man's genitals is NOT going to do anything to better his or his partner's sex life.

That's just the way it is.

[Laggie]

Originally Posted by Mommiska

That isn't going to solve all problems.

If you have a circed guy who needs lots and lots of hard pounding away in order to climax, you are going to have to (I would imagine) use loads and loads of lube - and if he continues to take a long time, you are going to need to re-apply.

And that's going to really kill the mood, right? So this poor guy - who, again, needs lots of hard pounding in order to climax, has to start over again...

Wow, who knew I was killing the mood by applying lube? DH sure doesn't. The clitoris also is not self-lubricating and needs lube applied regularly - does that kill the mood too? I hope not, because we've been enjoying it all this time

I don't mean to make light of this issue - I do agree that intact is generally more comfortable - but I think your reasons why using lube won't work are a bit silly. Of course, I'm a bit of a lube junkie, no matter the status of my partner's foreskin, so I guess I'm biased.

Silicone lubes last a loooong time, btw. I hate them, but some people swear by them.

[transformed]

I just feel bad for the men. I mean, how would you feel if someone told you there was something wrong with your anatomy? How sexy would you feel?

Sheesh....take their feelings into consideration.

I could never circ a baby because I know what I know, but the issue of my dh restoring is completley his issue.

If you are having sexual issues, it is possible that they are caused by other reasons as well.

[Ecstatic]

Ok, I understand there are women out there who are affected by male circumcision and how lube doesn't solve the whole problem.

But, frankly, I still think there IS something wrong if a man is having sex with his wife/partner and not really caring that he's hurting her. Or going through it anyway, even though he knows she's in pain. For me, that is unacceptable. It's also unacceptable/unthinkable for my partner. I can't imagine that such a thing is healthy or good for a marriage/partnership.

I think a man CAN re-learn how to orgasm through more gentle means. Yes, it takes time and effort and open communication. And, not only does it take time and effort when it comes to sex, but it also takes committment and the same approach when it comes to him masturbating. It also takes a shift in thinking, i.e. not "my pleasure is most important" but "my pleasure comes from her pleasure, I do not want my orgasm at the expense of her pain, I want to make sex mutual."

If a man cares so much about his pleasure that he'll go for the orgasm despite hurting his partner, despite the fact that she feels violated each time they have intercourse, that's really scary to me. I mean, really scary. It's the attitude that is scary to me, not the reason for the pain. And THAT kind of attitude will remain regardless of the state of foreskin.

I feel VERY strongly that sex is mutual, and that it is a physical expression of what we feel for our partners. Pain is not something that should ever have a place in such an act. Unless, of course, it's kinky play people enjoy.

I think that the healthy thing would be to get together with one's partner and figure it out. What will make it better? How? And then start solving it. Whatever it takes. Because going through one's marriage like this ... just sounds awful. I just don't think anyone should experience this. It's not right.

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by Ecstatic

I think a man CAN re-learn how to orgasm through more gentle means. Yes, it takes time and effort and open communication. And, not only does it take time and effort when it comes to sex, but it also takes committment and the same approach when it comes to him masturbating. It also takes a shift in thinking, i.e. not "my pleasure is most important" but "my pleasure comes from her pleasure, I do not want my orgasm at the expense of her pain, I want to make sex mutual."

I think that the healthy thing would be to get together with one's partner and figure it out. What will make it better? How? And then start solving it. Whatever it takes. Because going through one's marriage like this ... just sounds awful. I just don't think anyone should experience this. It's not right.

How exactly is he supposed to learn (or re-learn) how to orgasm, if he can't feel anything unless he's being rough?

The brain may well be the most sexual organ, but it has to have some sort of feedback from the penis, if he's getting nothing from it, then what exactly is he supposed to do if he won't restore and get at least some of the sensitivity back?

That's like telling every man with some sort of physiological problem with his penis leading to erectile dysfunction or no feeling that it's all his own fault he can't orgasm because he hasn't relearned how to do it!

Read some of the stories on this board, there's couples who have completely given up on sex because it is now so painful for the woman. Circumcision does destroy physical relationships. The information has to get out there, feelings will be hurt, but ignorance allows it to continue.

[Ecstatic]

I understand. I'm a moderator of a board dealing with sexuality. It's a very mainstream board, though. Pretty much every man on there is circumcised.

From what I understand, from those men who post that they feel nothing during intercourse unless they go fast/rough, is that, to overcome this, they changed a few things in their routines. 1. they started masturbating much more gently, and completely stopped any rough or quick masturbation. 2. they had intercourse very gently, no roughness. And they kept at this, for months. They weren't able to orgasm at first at all, and needed help getting there via other means. With time, a lot of them were able to orgasm and were able to feel more than they had before.

This is actually common with a lot of male virgins who first have sex. Some of them use very rough masturbation techniques and when they start having intercourse they simply can not get off. Until they change their habits.

If a man has been roughly handling his penis for most of his life ... he will be de-sentizied to gentle sensations, on top of the circumcision affect. Take away the rough handling, and eventually the ability to feel some of those sensations comes back. Obviously, not like an uncircumcised male would feel ... but, still better than before when rough was the standard.

Of course, it's all individual too. Every man reacts differently. I understand that.

Conversely, there are other means to stimulation than intercourse. If pain is such a problem, it seems logical that gentle/brief intercourse can be part of the whole sexual experience ... but the orgasm can come from other activities. Which, surely, is better than an orgasm at the painful expense of one's partner!

It comes down to the attitude. Do I want my pleasure at the expense of my partner or do I want to try and change that? That attitude is there, regardless of foreskin. And it's a bad attitude, IMO, one which should have no place in a relationship. Change the attitude, and you change the sex. Because changing that attitude makes one become pro-active, and look for ways to make things better. Maybe it's restoration, maybe it's simply having an orgasm through other means, maybe it's trying to re-learn masturbation and sex, etc. Whatever it is, a pro-active attitude makes all the difference in terms of fixing the problem.

I didn't want to hijack this thread. Maybe it's not appropriate, or out of line, but I really feel upset for all of you who experience painful intercourse. I mean, sex should be mutual ... it really just saddens me when it's not. Anyway, I'm sorry for hijacking.

Back on topic, lol.

[AXEius]

Men often use rough masturbation techniques because they can hardly feel their genitals. I know, im circumcised and had to use as little lube as i could so i could get enough friction on my glans so i could have and orgasm. This would sometimes lead do abrasions or little cuts in the skin that i would have to wait until they healed to use my penis again. I always had to use lube i never even know you didn't have to use lube if you had a foreskin. Now i am restored i never have to use lube, in fact most of the time direct stimulation with out my foreskin is to much. My hands have always been somewhat rough which was not a problem when i could hardly feel my penis. Now only my wife can use direct stimulation on me because her hands are much softer and its still mind blowing when she does. Orgasms use to feel very much like having to sprint to find a bathroom and then the great relief when you finally get to pee. I had to work so hard to get to an orgasm and the only thing that felt good was the orgasm which wasn't much better than taking a good pee. now,after restoring its like being driven in a Cadillac on the way to eat at your favorite restaurant. You get to enjoy all the sites and sounds on the way there, you can tell the driver to take the long way and go down the scenic beach route, and when you finally get there it is the best meal you have ever had, every time........Yes restoring has made that much of a difference in my sex life. So when people sit here and say that its in the mans head or in the womans head, or just go use some lube (like humans were created and need fixing by the intimate lube industry so they can have sex), it kinda pisses me off. I know what it is like to be circumcised and what it is like to be restored, my wife knows what i was like before i was restored, she knows that she needed lube before and now she doesn't. Until someone has gone through restoration or the inverse as and adult, how can they say that the problems circumcision causes is actually made up "its in their heads". ITS NOT. Circumcision greatly effects sex in a negative way and restoration FIXES many of the problems created by circumcision in nearly equal but positive way. Circumcised men aren't deformed, they are mutilated. Circumcised penises ARE broken and disabled by qwuak doctors and NON surgical restoration helps to fix much of what was done without more knives. Humans weren't born needing lube. humans weren't born to hurt their penises to have orgasms. humans weren't born to have to restore their mutilated penises. Humans were made that way by circumcision!

Humans were not born to be circumcised!