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Why WOULDN'T a man want to restore??? - Page 3

post #41 of 81
Right on AXEius! :

Heck, according to Moses Maimonides, the problems that AXEius, me, and other cut guys suffer are supposed to be part of being circumcised! In fact, these problems are the whole point of the operation!

Check it out: http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides/
post #42 of 81
I wouldn't want anyone to suffer...but I do not think a wife needs to come to her husband and pressure him to change his penis. I think its bad for business. It would be in my marriage anyways.

If a man comes to the conclusion on his own, great. If he wants to stay cut, great. I support my hubby in whatever he wants to do with his penis.
post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AXEius View Post
Circumcised men aren't deformed, they are mutilated.
Excellent point. It takes brave men to overcome the instinctive need to protect their ego (by refusing to see anything "wrong" with their penis) and instead stand up and say, " I was mutilated and I'm MAD AS HELL! This has got to stop! Not one more child should ever be violated again!"

Some of our circ'd husbands are okay in spite of it, some of them are really suffering (as are their wives), and I don't believe it is a put-down or demeaning to the man to honestly admit that something is missing from his body.

Jen
post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laggie View Post
Wow, who knew I was killing the mood by applying lube? DH sure doesn't. The clitoris also is not self-lubricating and needs lube applied regularly - does that kill the mood too? I hope not, because we've been enjoying it all this time

I don't mean to make light of this issue - I do agree that intact is generally more comfortable - but I think your reasons why using lube won't work are a bit silly. Of course, I'm a bit of a lube junkie, no matter the status of my partner's foreskin, so I guess I'm biased.
I did not say that applying lube in and of itself kills the mood. Nor was I talking about a sexual relationship in which rough hard sex causing soreness for the female partner wasn't an issue (which it seems it isn't for you).

What I DID say was that if someone has a de-sensitised penis and needs rough sex (and lots of it) in order to climax - that person may well need to stop having sex (in the middle of all of the pounding that he NEEDS in order to climax) to reapply lube (so that his wife isn't so sore afterwards)...

which could very well be a mood killer for someone who has trouble climaxing anyway.

That's what many of the women here are describing at any rate - men who have trouble climaxing without very hard pounding that in turn leaves the women very sore.

Yet they're told just to get more lube and all will suddenly be well? Come on.

If you read their stories, it clearly won't. It's condescending to tell someone that you know how to fix their sexual problems, and if they just get enough lube, that will do the trick.

As someone else said on another thread - if someone is having problems with soreness and chaffing after sex, it's a pretty good bet they've already thought of using lube and plenty of it - and it clearly isn't solving their problems. :

My partner is intact, and we tried lube when we were first married (had it recommended to us by our friends - the males all happened to be circed). And to be honest, for me, even trying it was a huge old mood killer (messy, yucky, ick). Luckily, we quickly realised that we didn't need it, so just threw it away.

So I can easily see how it could be a mood killer for some women as well - although in my original post, I was referring to it making orgasm more difficult for the desensitised man.
post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AXEius View Post
Men often use rough masturbation techniques because they can hardly feel their genitals. I know, im circumcised and had to use as little lube as i could so i could get enough friction on my glans so i could have and orgasm. This would sometimes lead do abrasions or little cuts in the skin that i would have to wait until they healed to use my penis again.

I always had to use lube i never even know you didn't have to use lube if you had a foreskin. Now i am restored i never have to use lube, in fact most of the time direct stimulation with out my foreskin is to much. My hands have always been somewhat rough which was not a problem when i could hardly feel my penis. Now only my wife can use direct stimulation on me because her hands are much softer and its still mind blowing when she does.

Orgasms use to feel very much like having to sprint to find a bathroom and then the great relief when you finally get to pee. I had to work so hard to get to an orgasm and the only thing that felt good was the orgasm which wasn't much better than taking a good pee. now,after restoring its like being driven in a Cadillac on the way to eat at your favorite restaurant. You get to enjoy all the sites and sounds on the way there, you can tell the driver to take the long way and go down the scenic beach route, and when you finally get there it is the best meal you have ever had, every time........Yes restoring has made that much of a difference in my sex life.

So when people sit here and say that its in the mans head or in the womans head, or just go use some lube (like humans were created and need fixing by the intimate lube industry so they can have sex), it kinda pisses me off.

I know what it is like to be circumcised and what it is like to be restored, my wife knows what i was like before i was restored, she knows that she needed lube before and now she doesn't. Until someone has gone through restoration or the inverse as and adult, how can they say that the problems circumcision causes is actually made up "its in their heads". ITS NOT. Circumcision greatly effects sex in a negative way and restoration FIXES many of the problems created by circumcision in nearly equal but positive way.

Circumcised men aren't deformed, they are mutilated. Circumcised penises ARE broken and disabled by quack doctors and NON surgical restoration helps to fix much of what was done without more knives. Humans weren't born needing lube. humans weren't born to hurt their penises to have orgasms. humans weren't born to have to restore their mutilated penises. Humans were made that way by circumcision!

Humans were not born to be circumcised!
I thought that this should be repeated.
post #46 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCKH View Post
I am married to a happily circumsized man who is also onboard with us not circumsizing our baby, due next month (we know it's a boy.) I think he would see a restoration as unnecessary, painful and risky as a circumcision, and thus would not choose the former for himself or the latter for our child.
Congrats on the upcoming birth of your baby boy!
post #47 of 81
Thread Starter 
Thanks to all of you SO MUCH for your input. I really needed to hear all of the things said here, for and against restoration...

I guess I understand the situation BETTER, as to why someone wouldn't WANT to restore, but I guess I just don't AGREE with it. I will probably give dh the link and let him read for himself from those who have and have not done it.

I just get so angry that this ever happened at all, because here we are with a situation that was never meant to be a situation at all. Sure his penis "works just fine". He urinates with it, he procreates with it, and yes, it brings him and me, pleasure. It's attractive, functional and there is "nothing wrong with it the way it is". However, like the differences between tearing thru a drive thru, and getting driven to your favorite resteraunt... I KNOW I'm getting cheated, I'm pretty sure he is too...

*shrug*
I hope that in time, as he gets a little older he will find less to be embarrassed about in reclaiming what was wrongfully taken from him. I hope he can find it within himself to strive for a more sensitive state somewhere down the line. If that happens, great!
If not, then I guess he will have to deal with the reality of NOT restoring, and what that means. It really IS his penis, but I don't know that he will like where the uncut version is taking him ultimately.

For the men who HAVE restored: What do you wish someone (anyone, wife included) would have told you, showed you or helped you with before you decided to restore? Is there a way I can support and encourage the choice to restore without it seeming like a demand? (it's not a demand, or i would have never married a cut man in the first place)
Did you come to the decision finally on your own, or did your partner have a larger part to play?
Do you have any specific advice for me? For HIM?

THANKS AGAIN for all your replies. They have all been helpful. :-)
post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenP View Post
on topic, anyway, my husband doesn't want to go around with contraptions taped to his dick for months on end.
You don't need to use devices or tape. It is possible to do manual restoration, but it does often take longer.
post #49 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phatchristy View Post
You don't need to use devices or tape. It is possible to do manual restoration, but it does often take longer.
heh heh.. how MUCH longer, and can i do it to dh while he's not paying attention? alseep? (maybe he'll apprectiate the extra attention )

honestly, when he's flaccid, it is a "loose circ" I can stretch it long enough to cover his entire penis... THEN WHAT?!?!
post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by salt_phoenix View Post
heh heh.. how MUCH longer, and can i do it to dh while he's not paying attention? alseep? (maybe he'll apprectiate the extra attention )

honestly, when he's flaccid, it is a "loose circ" I can stretch it long enough to cover his entire penis... THEN WHAT?!?!
Um, I think if you want specifics you'll have to pm me.

If you manually restore w/o using a retainer (to cover the glans) then what basically happens is there is a point where you get enough skin that it doesn't just bunch up behind the glans when it is flaccid, it will start to creep over it.

It honestly gives a LOT of sensitivity a lot quicker (weeks actually) if they keep the glans covered...but if your DH is not willing to do that (using tape or a retainer) you can still apply tension to the skin and expand the inner foreskin.
post #51 of 81
What's the lowest effort method of restoration. My DH wants to leave his "just like it is" but it is SO tempting to me because it is only a semi-circ! Such potential! If there was a low effort way to do it, I bet I could talk him into it.
post #52 of 81
Is there a support group or chatroom for wives/women/partners that want their men restored? Or are helping to restore?

I've got a lot of the same questions as salt_phoenix... and I know a few questions I want answered don't belong here
post #53 of 81

This is so true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
Actually, getting pounded until you are sore, lube or not, and knowing that the after effects are going to last for days are pretty much the mood killer. So much so that the "mood" doesn't happen and gets avoided at all costs.

Sorry, like it or not, circumcision is the cause of a LOT of difficulties, and it's this refusal to recognise it that allows mothers to keep on cutting. Some feelings are going to have to get hurt somewhere along the line, because people HAVE to know and recognise that cutting up a man's genitals is NOT going to do anything to better his or his partner's sex life.

That's just the way it is.
With any uncomfortable truth, it is so hard for others to see...

I once thought that I had a problem not being tight enough with my circ partner. Boy, it sure was the opposite for my intact husband!

I am so happy I got lucky.
post #54 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by salt_phoenix View Post
For the men who HAVE restored: What do you wish someone (anyone, wife included) would have told you, showed you or helped you with before you decided to restore? Is there a way I can support and encourage the choice to restore without it seeming like a demand? (it's not a demand, or i would have never married a cut man in the first place)
Did you come to the decision finally on your own, or did your partner have a larger part to play?
Do you have any specific advice for me? For HIM?

THANKS AGAIN for all your replies. They have all been helpful. :-)
Well, I found out about it and was compelled to try it. My wife was an aprehensive observer at first. After she could feel the improvements (just a month or so) then she became a strong suppporter.

So I can't really put myself in your DH's shoes. And each of us is very different in how we react to things, suggestions, etc. So it is hard to give suggestions.

I think, if it was me, and you would every so often say "look at this, what do you think about that?" or "I can't imagine how that would feel, read this and see what you think." Then it would make me think about it more. Of course he is probably wary, now that you have discussed it a lot, so it may take a while.

So much is in the tone of your voice, your inflection, your pacing...the nonverbals. And it is a tedious and long process. So I do not think everyone is prepared to do it. Shrug.

Keep reading. Keep information flowing as a mutual exploration. Be curious. Let him find his own way. Be patient. He will certainly have to be if he decides to restore, smile.

Regards
post #55 of 81
I think also it's hard for women (especially ones who have only slept with circed partners, which is all too common in the US) to change the way they think about sexual dysfunction. Until I came here and started reading, I always assumed that in college because of stress or whatever, I just dried up. I didn't equate it to breaking up with my intact boyfriend and dating circed men. I assumed that it was my problem, and as such, should be treated in the American way - treat the symptoms when you can't avoid facing them, and deny, deny, DENY!

It's been difficult for me to change my thinking that it's actually not me, but something that was done to my husband. Luckily he's very good about stopping when it gets too much (he's a C2, so he's very tightly circed and this happens a lot), but the lube factor... it's the bane of our sexual existence.

I also wish I could magically interest my DH in restoring. I'm excited that there may be a solution that has nothing to do with medication, and totally willing to try. But the fact remains, if he's not - . We fight this battle for our boys to have the right to do with their bodies what they will. Right now, my DH is exercising that right to stay the way he is, and I couldn't take that choice away from him by trying to coerce him into it, even if I thought it was for BOTH of our own good.

And honestly, who knows how he'll feel in a week? A year? Ten years? I will continue reading articles, continue giving him research and the means to restore, but the decision is ultimately his. And that's what we fight this battle for in the first place, so I'm ok with that.

Though, yeah, salt_phoenix, I totally know how you feel about wishing he'd just get off his butt and do it already!
post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk View Post
Actually, getting pounded until you are sore, lube or not, and knowing that the after effects are going to last for days are pretty much the mood killer. So much so that the "mood" doesn't happen and gets avoided at all costs.

Sorry, like it or not, circumcision is the cause of a LOT of difficulties, and it's this refusal to recognise it that allows mothers to keep on cutting. Some feelings are going to have to get hurt somewhere along the line, because people HAVE to know and recognise that cutting up a man's genitals is NOT going to do anything to better his or his partner's sex life.

That's just the way it is.
so, so true....I have tried nicely to tell DH this but he doesn't hear me.....ugh. :/ Every time this happens (which is no where near as frequent anymore since our sex life is practically dead) I just get REALLY mad at my IL's for having done this to him. And honestly I get a bit resentful at him too for being unwilling to restore. I'd like to think if there was something I could do that would ease his discomfort that I would, but who knows....
post #57 of 81
Hi,
I've read through this whole thread and I'm going to respond to several people's concerns without quoting them. I started tugging in 2001 and I've helped over 9000 men restore, so I wouldn't be bragging to say I have some expertise. My recent TIME interview on restoration:
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...679981,00.html


>> The glans isn't the most sensitive part anyway <<

Indeed. The biggest improvement since I restored is the awesome feeling of mobile slack skin. My wife loves it for intercourse. For foreplay it lets her work on me without any risk of rubbing me raw/numb.

The next most significant change is the special new "itch" that the skin between the scar and the glans now has. This skin was mucosal inner foreskin before I was cut at birth, and now that it's protected (it faces in all the time), it's like I'm seeing in newly-invented colors. Glans sensitivity really is not significant. The type of subcutaneous nerve endings within the glans are responsible for pain perception, not pleasure.


>> restoration is a huge undertaking <<

Nah! It can be as simple as wearing a comfortable tapeless skin retainer; less effort than when a man pulls his underwear on. The only lifestyle change is using a stall to urinate instead of a urinal, and even that's optional.


>> there will be pain <<

Only if you're doing it wrong. Persistant gentle tension will cause up to an inch of new skin per year to grow. Sometimes tapes or a device can get out of adjustment (because the skin is in flux due to temperature changes and stuff) and there might be a mild pinching or just plain strange sensation until he can get to some privacy and re-adjust.


>> It's surgical <<

NO! Surgery is a terrible idea for anyone who has enough slack to start non-surgically. I've met over a dozen surgical restorers. Only one was happy with the result. Typically, surgery leaves you with more numb incision lines, hairy foreskin that's thicker than shaft skin, not much slack, and ultra tight scrotum (most techniques borrow scrotal skin).


>> he doesn't want to be taped <<

99% of cut men can start with a tapeless method or switch after less than 3 months of taping.


>> with condoms, the slack foreskin has no gliding action? <<

That has not been my experience. With a condom, the condom-covered skin acts just like the slinky skin does otherwise. Note I don't have a fenulum, so intact guys may have a different story.


>> an unrestored cut man doesn't feel, goes for too long, is too rough <<

That WAS my experience. I've been scolded for getting too explicit here before, but I'll try to be clinical. Before restoring, I could go for way longer than my wife wanted. She would climax several times and if I really concentrated I could finish. Now, if I concentrate on her I can go as long as she likes, but the thing is that it's so wonderful the whole time, I'm in no hurry to get to the big finish. I focus a lot more on using my hands and other resources for her. We are both having the best sex of our lives in our mid-40s. Oddly, while I could never climax from oral stimulation before restoring, I could finish from just one of her fingers tickling my frenular area for a long time with no lube. We haven't discovered a comparable mode during intercourse.


>> did men's partner's persuade them to restore? <<

Mine thought I was crazy (until we stopped laughing and I explained why I was serious).


>> what's the lowest-effort method? <<

Skin retaining (without inducing much growth) is utterly effortless. Men use o-rings from the hardware store, or a specially designed silicone cone, or just a cut-up baby bottle nipple. The inner skin and glans will get more supple and sensitive in a matter of weeks, and some slackening will occur, especially if he manages to sleep with the skin retained (due to the stretching of nocturnal erections).


>> Is there a wives' resource? <<

Today I will add a wives/partners section to the restorers' forum I moderate:
http://Foreskin-Restoration.net/forum


>> >> Nobody raised the objection that a cut guy might not want to smell like an intact man, or have smegma.

I would just say that he will never see smegma if he rinses with clear water daily in the shower. I do get a faint sweet musky aroma that is much milder than any female scent I've encountered, and my wife swears she can't taste anything. I never notice it unless I'm camping or something and have to skip showering for a day.

Restoration is very worthwhile, but I guess I can understand a guy not wanting to admit there's room for improvement.
post #58 of 81
well ron really said it all, a very good post. I am in complete agreement with ron, he really knows what he is talking about. I just want to reiterate there are many methods of restoring and there is more than one way to unskin a cat (maybe not as funny as i thought it would be, oh well lol). "retainer" and manual methods are the best way to get started. There are many ways to restore once you get past the begining stage, even ones that dont use tape (tape was my favorite because of its comfort and reliablity). Restoring should never hurt , at worst it is mildly uncomfortable for short periods. Last, is that surgical restoration is an option, but if your doing restoration for the benefits then there is really no point in having someone cut all your foreskin nerves again, besides the few pictures ive seen of surgically restored foreskins were no where near as natural looking as non-surgically restored foreskin, they almost looked as mutilated as a circumcised penis.
post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
I just feel bad for the men. I mean, how would you feel if someone told you there was something wrong with your anatomy? How sexy would you feel?
If I had had much of the working parts of my genitals removed at birth, I would probably not question the fact that there was something wrong with my anatomy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
If you are having sexual issues, it is possible that they are caused by other reasons as well.
Yeah, and if you're rowing a boat with only one oar, it is possible that the fish in the lake are making you go around in circles.

Will we ever get to the day when everyone will understand that circumcision damages the sexual organs? And damaged sexual organs don't work like undamaged ones? Genital mutilation is not just something that a little extra lube can fix.
post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
Sheesh....take their feelings into consideration.
Just thinking about this some more, because truthfully, your posts in this thread have upset me a great deal. You come off as incredibly dismissive towards those of us who have suffered a great deal.

I would like to ask how it is more considerate to question a man's (or woman's) sexual technique than it is to place a large part of the blame for sexual dysfunction on the fact that he has had a part of his anatomy amputated?

To me, it's much less hurtful to say to my husband, "Sex with you hurts me because, unfortunately, you're missing a vital part of your genitals," than it is to say, "You hurt me because you suck at sex."

Or are you simply placing the blame for dysfunction solely on the woman and her technique?

Somehow, I'm just missing the rationale behind your dismissive posts.
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