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Can we talk about fetal bovine serum in vaccines?

post #1 of 39
11/21/07 at 1:50am
Thread Starter 
I found this

http://www.retroconference.org/2002/Abstract/13891.htm

and this...

http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAb...102264259.html

and this...

http://www.cadama.co.uk/pages/foetal_bovine_serum.html


Soooo...am I understanding this correctly.....some of the vaccines tested were positive for BPyV DNA ?

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post #2 of 39
11/21/07 at 2:55am
They've found BVDV in the MMR, too.
It's questionable if it's still "alive" though. It probably varies from lot to lot, I think.
hey've actually found a bunch of viruses in FBS. Some of them probably won't grow in the tissues they use to grow the MMR viruses, though.

You can look through here for a start:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...on&btnG=Search
post #3 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:01am
Thread Starter 
But isnt the dna still there? Wouldnt that make it into the vax?
post #4 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
But isnt the dna still there? Wouldnt that make it into the vax?
Yeah...but if it doesn't replicate, it shouldn't matter.
Unless there was a lot of it.

Here's another search to look through.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...es&btnG=Search
post #5 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:15am
Thread Starter 
Awesome...Thanks MK! Off to do some major reading....
post #6 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:16am
This is an interesting study...
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pag...50&pageindex=1
post #7 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
: At the great risk of oversimplifying.....babies are getting sick...it's evident that the vaccine is to blame but the WHO continues to feel that the continuous cell lines are safe? What am I missing here?
post #8 of 39
11/21/07 at 12:04pm
In order for any DNA molecule to replicate it must be in a nucleus. There are many components that are needed for DNA to replicate. Additionally, DNA is polar and positively charged. It is VERY difficult for DNA to get into a cell. In a lab DNA must either be injected directly into a cell or coated with specifc components to obtain the proper charge to penetrate the cell membrane. Then it must get into the nucleus. Random DNA floating is blood can not replicate.
post #9 of 39
11/21/07 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyMom View Post
In order for any DNA molecule to replicate it must be in a nucleus. There are many components that are needed for DNA to replicate. Additionally, DNA is polar and positively charged. It is VERY difficult for DNA to get into a cell. In a lab DNA must either be injected directly into a cell or coated with specifc components to obtain the proper charge to penetrate the cell membrane. Then it must get into the nucleus. Random DNA floating is blood can not replicate.
BVDV does a fine job of infecting human cells as long as it's intact.
BVDV is an RNA virus, too, I think.

How do you think the old polio vaccines infected people with SV40?
post #10 of 39
11/21/07 at 12:41pm
MK,
I thought you were talking about cow DNA in the serum, not the intact virus. Inact viruses of course have very sophisticated ways docking on a cell membrane and injecting their DNA into a cell and the DNA making its way to the nucleus.
post #11 of 39
11/21/07 at 12:55pm
Oooh...it's cool.
Yeah...I'm just talking about viral contaminants in FBS that might amplify in the cultures.
Vero cells are HIGHLY permissive to BVDV, for example. And rotateq is grown in vero cells, and supplemented with FBS, which is often contaminated with BVDV.
They do irradiate the FBS, but that's not perfect. It comes frozen in cubes and the stuff in the middle doesn't get touched, really.
And if they just irradate it more they'll end up ruining the FBS.
So...
Merck says it buys FBS from sources with herds that are free of viruses like BVDV.
But then you're down to just trusting farmers to know what their cattle have and telling the truth.
There seem to be a lot of holes in the system, I guess is what I'm saying.
post #12 of 39
11/21/07 at 2:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
But then you're down to just trusting farmers to know what their cattle have and telling the truth.
There seem to be a lot of holes in the system, I guess is what I'm saying.
Do all these cows come from actual farmers or are some factory farm cows? Also, couldnt farmers use antibiotics on their cows ....that could potentially create more harmful viruses that could wind up in the serum?
post #13 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
Do all these cows come from actual farmers or are some factory farm cows? Also, couldnt farmers use antibiotics on their cows ....that could potentially create more harmful viruses that could wind up in the serum?
The FBS comes from [the fetuses of] regular slaughter-house "food" cows.
http://www.vet.uu.nl/nca/userfiles/o...tock_sera_.pdf

Antibiotics wouldn't matter since we're talking about viruses.
post #14 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post

Antibiotics wouldn't matter since we're talking about viruses.
you're right.
post #15 of 39
11/21/07 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
BVDV does a fine job of infecting human cells as long as it's intact.
BVDV is an RNA virus, too, I think.
BVDV is an RNA virus and really doesn't do a very good job of infecting humans due to the mismatch of cell surface receptor proteins. There are also numerous biotypes with most being non-cytopathic.

Quote:
How do you think the old polio vaccines infected people with SV40?
This was/is a problem due to the virus being zoonotic. If it weren't, we probably would never have even heard of SV40 in relation to vaccine contamination.

SM
post #16 of 39
11/21/07 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Science Mom View Post
BVDV is an RNA virus and really doesn't do a very good job of infecting humans due to the mismatch of cell surface receptor proteins. There are also numerous biotypes with most being non-cytopathic.

This was/is a problem due to the virus being zoonotic. If it weren't, we probably would never have even heard of SV40 in relation to vaccine contamination.

SM
Just for my own clarity are you saying that BVDV isn't zoonotic and therefore cannot make us sick?
post #17 of 39
11/21/07 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Science Mom View Post
BVDV is an RNA virus and really doesn't do a very good job of infecting humans due to the mismatch of cell surface receptor proteins. There are also numerous biotypes with most being non-cytopathic.
It can't be too bad at it or there wouldn't be all those vets and children and farmers who have been documented as infected/seroconverted, you know?
post #18 of 39
11/21/07 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
It can't be too bad at it or there wouldn't be all those vets and children and farmers who have been documented as infected/seroconverted, you know?
So, people have been exposed to this stuff and "caught" it? Do they get sick? Are the symptoms similar to any of the better known vaccine reactions?
post #19 of 39
11/21/07 at 6:53pm
http://fn.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/78/3/F230?ck=nck

Quote:
Pestivirus infections were thought to occur exclusively in animals until Giangaspero and coworkers recently reported the presence of specific anti-BVDV antibodies in up to 87% of animal handlers and veterinarians.18 Since then, lower prevalences of 15-16% have been reported in adults.19 20 Among children under 2 years, pestivirus antigens were present in 24% of specimens from diarrhoea episodes that could not be explained by more common enteric pathogens
post #20 of 39
11/21/07 at 7:30pm
So weird diarrhoea episodes could be connected to vax ingredients. Whoopee!
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Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Vaccinations › Vaccinations Archives › Resources › Can we talk about fetal bovine serum in vaccines?