Is the Dave Ramsey book good for everyone? - Page 3

[velochic]

Originally Posted by phathui5

Though you could say the same thing about any ministry.

No, DR has a business that he also uses to minister to people. It's not a non-profit, but he does generally give away books, event tickets and scholarships to Financial Peace University when people call his program. For veterans day and the several days following, the program was free for veterans. So he does try to find ways to get the word out even though the books aren't free to everyone.

If it's a Christian ministry, then it should be separate from the business, and it should be free.

If you have a good financial idea, and I have to say that Dave Ramsey has only taken what others before have written about (and yes, is in large part common sense), then write it, package it and sell it. But don't make me pay to buy your religion. That's what he is doing.

In the end, he does a great job of selling his religion and does very little to help the people who really need help. The people he helps already have the *means* to get out of debt.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by velochic

The short answer is no.

This fellow and his empire developed from the very movement I grew up in... fundamental christian. This is the same movement that produced Ezzo and CIO and sleep training. I regard Dave Ramsey as the Ezzo of the financial world. He has one (and only one) method that everyone has to apply. If it's not working, it's because YOU are doing something wrong (as the method is infallible). In fact, it's not even a new method. The snowball method has been around for decades. The steps have been too. I remember taking a course as a young adult from Larry Burkett that gave very similar principles. But Larry Burkett was not nearly as dynamic and marketable as Dave Ramsey, as he's old... and he was giving his advice away for free.

I don't think Dave Ramsey is good for everyone. He certainly doesn't address the issue that many people have: not enough money to make the bills and not enough time to make the money. Families that have a hard-working parent and another staying home... the answer isn't a second or third job, it's ideas on dealing with the fundamental issues... how do I feed my family and still HAVE a family. He's also not for people like me because we have no debt except mortgage.

Which brings me to yet another criticism. Dave Ramsey has paying off mortgage as a step. It's before "build wealth". Carrying a mortgage is often part of building wealth. But he doesn't even address this. He puts saving for college above building wealth. If you build wealth, saving for college isn't an issue, either. He knows nothing about leveraging debt to grow wealth. He's not a financial planner, he's just another broker.

I think he has done a great job of teaching people how to get out of debt. His methods are old, but packaged and presented in a brand new shiny box. But... well... those that can get out of debt, can do so without him, too.

People don't much think about how rich he gets off of his "get out of debt" sermon. If he really wanted to just help, he'd give the advice for free.

Those that love the guy need not reply because you *have* been assimilated.

I have really tried to like Dave Ramsey but he just doesn't work for me and I am what many would call a fundamental Christian , but his advice is too simplistic and IMO really doesn't take into consideration different financial lifestyles.

I started looking at him a few mos ago based off the buzz here at MDC and a few other boards and there just wasn't much I could take away from him in my particular situation. Admittedly as a now unemployed adjunct instructor/consultant married to a freelance writer our lifestyle is a little different in that we don't have regular pay checks and often times its feast or famine financially with right now being a famine. Yeah, we have considered 2nd jobs but with a highly spirited 2 yo its just not happening. Even selling off our good at the moment isn't working towards building savings but is filling in the gaps. So no I just don't see his approach working for all. I think he workd if you already have the means and just need some redirection as far as how to allocate your money but that's just my 2 cents.

I also must admit that if I correct this man has filed BK and hearing a guy who got BD protection demonizing it bugs me..

Shay

[phathui5]

(and yes, is in large part common sense),

It is pretty much common sense, but laying it out in steps and being motivating/charismatic is what makes people want to follow the "plan." I couldn't get my dh on the same page with me financially until I had him read The Total Money Makeover. So I'm a fan because it got dh on board with getting out of debt.

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by shayinme

I I also must admit that if I correct this man has filed BK and hearing a guy who got BD protection demonizing it bugs me..

Shay

Bankruptcy was 20 years ago. No credit cards since. He was over extended on mortages - real estate investor. Started doing financial counseling and then the radio show (filled in for someone, then eventually went 5 days a week in Nashville, then nationwide).

Hey others have done it - Mary Hunt and her husband were $100K in debt, and she admits it was largely in part due to her overspending. You share what helped you get out of your sticky situation.

[polyhymnia]

I think he is a moron. I am sorry to those who love him. It seems his program does work for many people and I guess that can only be a good thing. But anyone who advocates paying minimums on a 15% interest rate debt while throwing everything you have at a 3% interest rate debt does not get any kudos in my book. That is just short sighted. He does not give tools to become financially stable/savvy in the future. He just has this one program to follow, period. Nevermind thinking for yourself or actually learning about finance.

[quelindo]

Those of you who think DR's advice does not work for poor people -- I would be curious to hear opinions on what WOULD work. Not being snarky here... I just think DR's advice is generally good common sense and if THAT doesn't work, what would?

[velochic]

Originally Posted by New Mama

Those of you who think DR's advice does not work for poor people -- I would be curious to hear opinions on what WOULD work. Not being snarky here... I just think DR's advice is generally good common sense and if THAT doesn't work, what would?

Well, if I had the answer, I wouldn't tell you... I'd package it and sell it to you.

Seriously, the point is that DR has one message to apply to people across all socio-economic strata and it doesn't work that way. Everything is subjective.

What I dislike is that he sells his product in a way that makes everyone think it's the answer to their problems. He gives you the HOW instead of the WHY. If you had the WHY, you'd come to the HOW conclusion yourself. That is, instead of telling you what to do, give you the info and let you do the right thing for your own situation.

The answer : none of it works for everyone and "what would" is different for each family.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by New Mama

Those of you who think DR's advice does not work for poor people -- I would be curious to hear opinions on what WOULD work. Not being snarky here... I just think DR's advice is generally good common sense and if THAT doesn't work, what would?

To be honest I don't know but as I stated earlier my problem with DR and most similiar folks like him is the assumption that one is in a bad position because they overspent or made poor choices. Frankly I think especially in the current job climate and economy one can end up broke or in debt and never had a overindulgent moment. Someone up thread mentioned selling off stuff to get a savings going, well what if you are so broke you don't have anything to sell? Lots of folks like that.. again his approach does work for lots of folks but for me it was pretty easy to decide is approach simply doesn't work for me.

Velochic brought up a point that resonates deeply with me in dealing with my own financial issues and that is looking at the why of a situation. Not just the how, in our case we are seriously thinking of shifting careers, dh is thinking of going into teaching, in his case since he already has a bachelors and masters degree it would only be a 1 year certification program. For me its getting another degree and going into counseling.. we did all the budget cutting but made the decision that our current professions are not providing us the stability we need as we approach our 40's.

Shay

[mum4boys]

Originally Posted by crayolaab

I think he is a moron. I am sorry to those who love him. It seems his program does work for many people and I guess that can only be a good thing. But anyone who advocates paying minimums on a 15% interest rate debt while throwing everything you have at a 3% interest rate debt does not get any kudos in my book. That is just short sighted. He does not give tools to become financially stable/savvy in the future. He just has this one program to follow, period. Nevermind thinking for yourself or actually learning about finance.

Well if Dave Ramsey is a moron I wish I was a moron just like him. It does not matter whether his program works or not he was smart enough to make millions off of it. It is short sighted to have credit card debt in the first place. If you had the discipline not to go into debt then you probably are discipline enough to pay off the balance with the highest interest first but most people are not hence why they are in over their head. If you read anything that DR writes you will see he does have a plan after you get out of debt.

[mum4boys]

Originally Posted by shayinme

Frankly I think especially in the current job climate and economy one can end up broke or in debt and never had a overindulgent moment. Shay

You are totally right. I know I have read most bankruptcies are from medical debt. I know we went into debt to pay off medical bills. We never bought anything "fun". The only thing we did not buy that was not a necessity was hiking boots for my two older boys for a grand total of $18.00. I felt horrible charging those stupid shoes but they needed something to get through winter.