breastfeeding woes

[Heather Marie]

I am on day 8 of not much progress with the breastfeeding. I am trying not to get upset, but it is really hard. I feel like I am mourning the birthing experience I didn't get (ended up with nubain then an epidural due to the back labor and my body not relaxing after many hours in labor and stuck at 4) and now Milo is still not latching.

I am working with a lactation consultant. After trying to cup feed for several days and then using the SNS thing from Medela we introduced a bottle of breastmilk yesterday. Things are calmer with the bottle, but I so desperately want to nurse Milo.

They think Milo wouldn't latch at first because of the epidural and just being sleepy. Then we went through several days of him just screaming and becoming frantic any time he was near my nipple. One of the nurses in the hospital was a bit forceful with pushing my boob into Milo's mouth and I think that led to him being stressed as does the lactation consultant.

He is now trying to latch, but hasn't gotten it yet. He kind of mouths my nipple, but isn't opening very wide. Sometimes he opens wide, but won't start sucking.

Yesterday the lactation consultant suggested I try a nipple shield. She was supposed to call last night so we could go pick one up from her, but she didn't call.

I am pumping like crazy to keep my supply up. Has anyone else had trouble with a baby not latching, but eventually getting it. Three lactation consultants assured me introducing the bottle wouldn't prevent him from latching but I just don't know.

Someone please shine a ray of sunshine and tell me things will still work out.

[maisiedotes]

I know where you are coming from. I did not have the birth experience I wanted either and now I am having breastfeeding difficulties myself. I am very discouraged. Thank goodness for the lactation consultants- ours calls daily to see how we are. I am sure they will keep meeting with you as long as you need them. Mairaed is a lousy sucker- she sucks her tongue- and I am now having the problem that she latches but won't suck more than 6 times. I am afraid it is because I introduced a bottle too early- day 4. It was too convenient for me to pump while DH was feeding her and now I think I have ruined my breastfeeding relationship with her. I am so afraid to even go back to the lactation consultant because she gave me instructions on what to do and it is not working.

I am so sorry- I did not mean to hijack the thread with my own issues. But you are not alone. I found lots of good info on the kellymom website- www.kellymom.com.

What did you think of the SNS? I can't get used to it. I don't like the nipple shield either. aargh. I don't want either of us to give up but it is sooo hard. Hang in there.

[cheeseRjedi]

I used a nipple shield with DD for the first few days b/c my nipple couldn't get far back enough in her mouth to reach her palette. It worked great and kinda trained my nipple to pull out further. She was able to successfully latch after 4 days and we quit using it and everything was fine! I hope it works out for you. Breastfeeding problems can be so tough.

[bri276]

not in this ddc, but just wanted to pop in and advise you to cross post in the "Breastfeeding Challenges" forum, just to hopefully get as much support as possible. it's not too late, and there is a lot you can still do, and remain hopeful for a great, long bf'ing relationship!

[Heavenly]

Hi I'm not in this ddc but I saw your post. If you want to breastfeed do NOT give any more bottles. It will most likely ruin your breastfeeding relationship. You CAN do this! I didn't have a full supply due to a breast reduction and also latch problems, had to learn how to nurse with the lact-aid (like SNS) and had many other problems. I didn't breastfeed my first child and I regretted it so much and still do. I stuck it out with the girls and it is so worth it. You can do it!!

[canadiannancy]

Callie has been having a little trouble...but I find as days go on she is getting better and better. SHe had a bit of a weak suck at first, and didn't open wide enough and now she is doin much better. I think in our case the bottles have helped her tremendously, she has gained from being down to 7lbs 2oz on Thursday to being 7lbs 15oz on wednesday....and it seems as each day goes on she is doing better at the breast.

I hope Milo and you start having a more successful time of it soon.

[Curlita]

I don't have any advice specific to your situation, but I wanted to reassure you about breastfeeding in general. It really , really will get better. Keep meeting with an LC as often as you need to. The first 6 weeks of BFing are absolutely the hardest -- lots of frustration and self doubt. But you and baby will both get the hang of it. I clearly remember, with my first, feeling like it was just impossible and wanting to give up. I stuck it out mainly because I didn;t want to admit defeat and go to formula permanently.

Hang in there and seek as much support as you need. This is the hardest part.

[Heather Marie]

Thanks for the support.

Maisie - This is the exact problem Milo is having. He keeps sucking his tongue. Yesterday he latched a couple times, but sucked just a handful of times and popped off. I didn't like the SNS. I just used the one that was good for 24 hours to try it out and it just drove me nuts. I still haven't heard from the lactation consultant about the nipple shield. She was suppoed to call me Wednesday night and she just didn't. I feel a little upset by that. I keep feeling the same about introducing the bottle of breastmilk, like I am ruining my chance of success. The lactation consultant is having me try a technique by Christina Smillie, but everytime he gets to the breast he gets so worked up. Sometimes it is like he is just so overly excited and wants to feed so bad and just can't manage to stay calm and latch correctly.

Cathy - I keep wondering if my nipples aren't reaching far enough back in his mouth. How do I tell for sure?

Gosh, this mom bit is really hard.

[ChiaraRose]

Us, us! We had a hard time in the beginning and now at four weeks dd nurses like champ. She was three weeks early and that was one factor, the sucking reflex gets prefected in the last two weeks in the womb, so her suck was already pretty week. On day three she got a mean cold and was very congested and got diagnosed with ulcers in her throat, and she stopped eating completly. I started syringe feeding her. After a week she got better, but screamed bloody murder as soon as I put her on the breast. i kept trying every feeding. I fed her a little with the syringe to take the edge off and the put her on,, squirting milk onto and into her upper lip, smearing milk all over my nipple and aureola and put her on and on. It sometimes took over an hour for her to finally latch on and drink a little bit. I was loosinf my mind and then I still had to feed her with the syringe. It slowly got better and at three weeks, she finally got it and we could throw the syringe away. Now she latches on right away and she nurses like crazy. i am so happy. I was persistent and she was full term at that point which helped.
I don't know if Milo was full term or not, maybe he just needs some more time. Hang in there, mamas, it is so worth it. And call that LC back, pester her or look for anew one. She should call you back, heck my LC is even available in the middle of the night and on her vacation. I love her, btw!! Good luck!

[maisiedotes]

I met with our ped. today and Mairaed gained 4 oz in 3 days. : I am so happy she is gaining weight- she is My milk seems to be coming out faster- I think I may have slow letdown but our ped said it may have something to do with the interventions at our birth. I am confident that we will make it work!

I am not a fan of the SNS either. I just dread feeding time. I hate to say it but a bottle is just so convenient- DH can feed her and I can pump. If it takes a half hour to feed her with a bottle and an hour or so for me to pump what she needs for the next feeding, that would be 1 1/2 hours of feeding and 1 1/2 hours of rest. I can't keep that up!

Question: does your milk flow? Mine does this drip. drip. drip. It beads up on the end of my nipple and eventually falls off into the bottle thingie. My mom told me she could shoot my dad from across the room with her breastmilk, like a supersoaker. There is NO WAY I could do that at this point. I just wonder if this milk is going to ever let down any faster....

[chrysalis]

heather, did you have a ceserean? w/ megh i also had nubaine and epidural and dilation was sooo slow and stuck...they even stretched me and i would pop back......after 26 hours of hell, i finally let them do a ceserean. they had to knock me out w/ general anesthesia as i was pretty frantic...probably quoting 'open season' and the like...thankfully megh didn't have bfing issues...it was awesome from the start when we finally met. i'm wondering if you had a ceserean cuz maybe the meds have effected milo? if not, either way i'm sure the lactation consultant will help you guys figure out the challenges. hang in there...
love,
lis

Originally Posted by Heather Marie

I am on day 8 of not much progress with the breastfeeding. I am trying not to get upset, but it is really hard. I feel like I am mourning the birthing experience I didn't get (ended up with nubain then an epidural due to the back labor and my body not relaxing after many hours in labor and stuck at 4) and now Milo is still not latching.

I am working with a lactation consultant. After trying to cup feed for several days and then using the SNS thing from Medela we introduced a bottle of breastmilk yesterday. Things are calmer with the bottle, but I so desperately want to nurse Milo.

They think Milo wouldn't latch at first because of the epidural and just being sleepy. Then we went through several days of him just screaming and becoming frantic any time he was near my nipple. One of the nurses in the hospital was a bit forceful with pushing my boob into Milo's mouth and I think that led to him being stressed as does the lactation consultant.

He is now trying to latch, but hasn't gotten it yet. He kind of mouths my nipple, but isn't opening very wide. Sometimes he opens wide, but won't start sucking.

Yesterday the lactation consultant suggested I try a nipple shield. She was supposed to call last night so we could go pick one up from her, but she didn't call.

I am pumping like crazy to keep my supply up. Has anyone else had trouble with a baby not latching, but eventually getting it. Three lactation consultants assured me introducing the bottle wouldn't prevent him from latching but I just don't know.

Someone please shine a ray of sunshine and tell me things will still work out.

[Heather Marie]

Thanks mamas for the advice and stories. On a positive note, Milo latched yesterday and sucked for 13 whole minutes!! It is the most progress we have had and I needed that glimmer of hope. We haven't had anything since, but it was something at least.

Maisie - At first my milk didn't stream, but now it is. I am using a Medela Lactina Electric Plus to pump with. What are you using? I think I might just go ahead and buy it from my midwife. She is going to sell all her pumps because she is closing her practice and I can get it for $250. How often are you pumping and how much milk are you getting? I am pumping every two hours for about 10-15 minutes and am getting up once at night to pump. I am now pumping anywhere from 3oz to 8oz or so per session. I am not really sure if this is a good amount or not.

Lisbeth - I didn't have a ceserean, but was very close to it. I was stuck at four for hours. I consented to the nubaine with hopes it would relax my body enough to continue dialating, but it just didn't happen. We then agreed to the epidural and at the very end we had pitocin. From the beginning I never intended to have any drugs and I was crushed when the birth went that way. I just never mentally prepared for it. I do know that had I not taken those steps I probably would have ended up in the OR. Even though I know the drugs were probably necessary in my case it is hard not to blame myself for the breastfeeding issues we are having and thinking they have everything to do with the drugs I was given during birth.

[Momma Aimee]

we had a lot of issues with Theo after 33 hours of labor, Pit after Labor stopped (12+ hours after water broke) and then a Epidural when i was still at a 4 after 22 hours of active labor ... he was a forcept baby.

he was very very very sleep and a lazy nurser -- like you say he won't open, won't opwn wide enough, won't suck once the boob is in his mouth .....

it took us 8 week to be "a good nurser" and for me to feel we were over the issues we had to start with .......

hang in there -- you CAN DO IT.

We never did a bottle -- i was too afraid he'd like the "easy" bottle and never take to me.

We would nurse him -- making his scream and cry if necessy to get his mouth open enough ... the once my boob was in his mouth i would express milk into him to "tigger" him wanting to eat. worked most of the time. I would also try to push my nipple down on his tought to start the nurseing reflext (if you put your finger in a babe's open mouth and softly push down on the toung, mid way back, they will start to suck

he'd nurse only a miknute or two then stop -- asleep or worn out or whatever....we'd start over ... wake him up, make him cry if necessay (talk abotu feeling horrid) and do ti all again .............

after 2 or 3 or 4 "nurseing" he'd be too tired, and i didn't want to make ti too negitive for him. I would then pumpo for 20 minutes and mom or Dh would feed Theo milk with an eye dropper. easier than the cup, and no nipple confuseion risk with bottle and also no risk of him likeing the easy bottle better than me .... sucking a bottle is different and a lot less work....

after about 4 or 5 weeks we stopped supplementing

i carried an alarm and work him every 60 to 90 minutes day time and every 2 hours night time ............ i stopped the day time awalrm at week 8 but kept the night alarm going will week 12.

if you use a nipple shield -- use it as short a time as possible ... baby will get "hooked" on it and weaning off it will be harder the longer you use it. Kellymom has some great stuff on weaning off a NS.

I am so sorry you are having issues, i remember how HORRIED I felt after 33 hours, a lot of inteventions i didn't want, forcepts, 4th degree tear and all the BF issues -- a blur of week of no sleep and lots of tears .....................................but.......... .....please THINK VERY CAREFULLY ABOUT THE BOTTLE and if you really want to use it -- it may seem easier now, but will it later??????

Whatever you do will be best for you -- just remenber to think forward, not just today. BF is h$%% at the start but sooooooooooooooo easy later ....

i am glad you are working with an LC ................

let me know if i can tell you any more about ourexpereince and what we did and how it worked

Aimee

[cheeseRjedi]

Heather it's kind of hard to tell if your nipple is getting far back enough. I only knew that was our problem with DD b/c my midwife picked up on it. You can try putting your clean pinky in his mouth and seeing if that reaches all the way to his palette. If it does then just kind of draw your nipple out before he latches on and try to get as much of your areola in his mouth as possible. That is me and Silas' problem. His mouth is just so small it's hard for him to get a good latch. I have to open his mouth as wide as possible and and push my boob as far into his mouth as it can go. And even then it still hurts a bit.

[Kontessa]

Please do post about this as much as you need to. Support I think is key, local support is even better. I wish I knew of someone who could help with birth trama and breastfeeding emotional pain. That hurt me so much with my son for so long. This birth helped me finally heal from it all but without it and the support I was lost for so long. I do not wish that on you or anyone. So please post, we are here for you. Even if you just need us to know how badly your hurting and to hear your tears. It can help.


Your a Wonderful mama. Please keep trying. I tried for 8 months with my son and it would have been so much worse for me if I did not know that I tried everything I could.

[Momma Aimee]

checking back in to see how things are going --

A

[maisiedotes]

Well, I am doing good. I am taking fenugreek, blessed thistle, and eating a giant bowl of oatmeal late morning and so far I am able to pump about 10-20cc extra at each pumping. It is not ideal (the pumping) but as long as Mairaed is getting her nutrition I am OK with it. I am still nursing her but at home we are unsure how much she is getting- but at the LC she was only getting 1-1.5oz at a 45-min session. Not enough to keep her gaining weight. So, I think maybe as she gets older the nursing will get easier.

How are you all doing?

[veganjoy]

I struggled with this, and it will get better!

After birthing my little one with shoulder dystocia, I had a retained placenta: part of the placenta detached immediately after she came out (we think because of a cord issue), and the vessels continued to bleed until my MW went in after it. I hemmoraged very badly, and Glory aspirated a lot of blood as they passed her between my legs to me. She had to be suctioned, and my husband held her as the midwives worked on me. We had skin to skin contact about 1 1/2 hours after birth, but I was unable to breastfeed her for several more because of the hemmorage.

We had a lot of the same issues you mention: sucked her tongue, would open wide but not latch, flailed her arms like crazy when we attempted a latch... She also vomited up a lot of colostrum with all the blood in her stomach, so she just wasn't getting nourished. At day 3, she had latched maybe twice, and not for long. At her several day checkup, Glory had lost a pound (she can comfortably lose up to 14 oz.). Then, we just got really aggressive about it. She's now latching well and eating for 30 minute stretches!

Things that helped:
-Pumped every 2 hours (I'm lucky if I get 1/2 oz), and fed her with a medicine dropper at the breast, even if she did not latch. We first used a regular spoon for this, but the dropper releases milk more slowly.
-Had her suck a pinkie or thumb; this developed her suck reflex without introducing a bottle
-Fed every 2 hours. If she wouldn't latch, we'd use a dropper at the breast, then pump to keep supply up.
-When baby opens her mouth, instead of forcing the breast in (this didn't work for us), squeeze the nipple to send a spray of milk into the mouth. It usually goes far enough to cause her to clamp down.
-Waiting until baby is calm before trying to feed (pacifying with a finger worked well). Otherwise, she'd get frantic and the whole thing was shot.
-Mother's Milk tea
-From the LLL leader I spoke with: offering a finger to comfort suck or feeding with a spoon or dropper doesn't introduce negative habits, as a bottle might. This really proved true for us, as she overcame those substitutes just fine.

It must be really frustrating to go through days and days of this. I know how much it hurts to feel like you can't feed your baby.

[Heather Marie]

Things just don't feel like they are improving. I feel so helpless and feel very, very overwhelmed. Milo latched on Thanksgivinng for 13 minutes and then latched again Monday night for 3 minutes and did the same twice Tuesday morning. Now he is back to just screaming whenever he is close to my breast. He breaks my heart. I feel like I am torturing the kid. We tried a nipple shield and he won't even latch to that. DH is giving him a bottle because everything else we tried wasn't working, just screaming. I feel like I am ruining our chances at being succesful, but I want him to eat something.

The lactation consultants think he is a very sensitive baby and that combined with the epidural I had and them having to suction Milo so much after birth has alot to do with our troubles. She feels he has been through so much stress.

He seems to have this intense need to suck, so we use our pinky finger to soothe him because absolutely nothing lese we are doing seems to soothe him. Anytime he thinks we are taking our finger out of his mouth he seems to panic and grabs onto your hand with such force and pulls our finger into his mouth as far as he can. He is even doing this at night when he is sleeping.

I just sit and cry whenever I think of how much things didn't go as planned with his birth and now the nursing is not going well either. The L&D nurse at the delivery (we went through several shift changes) only glanced at my birth plan and eneded up throwing my placenta away. I just feel frustrated, stressed, and overwhelmed and like nothing is going right. I feel like I don't even know what is the right thing to do anymore.

[sorteep]

i am so sorry for this for you.. nak... ds2 was same.. hypersensitive, back arching screaming refusing to nurse and basically crying 24/7... i know it is hard.... if you have a really strong let down it can make baby act like milo does,,,, if so , this may be bad advice but it worked for ds2... i would hand express 1st forceful let into a blanket then i had to literally forcefully make him take the breast..shove it in and hold him there... it was awful but he would nurse that way and eventually he got over his breast fear and we went on to nurse for 2 yrs... hugs... again, just my exp not necc giving advice... also ds2 had lots of sensory integration probs.. used wilbarger brushing tech very succesfully,, helps over sensitive kids calm... again, just passing on my exps hth..

but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do kwim?,, and guilt free.. so hard momma..i know you are doing your best and that is all any of us an do,, hugs