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Another mama's gentle discipline is affecting my kiddo--WWYD - Page 3

post #41 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by natensarah View Post
If I were you, I think I would do more disciplining of the boy. I would kind of act like I would if the mother wasn't there. For example, if he came to push my dd off of her trike, I'd say, "Dd is still using it, you'll have to wait your turn. Here, want to play with XYZ?" Have you tried that? I think your dd would appreciate you standing up for her, and you can model it for her so she can learn it too. In fact, you could even tell her, "Dd, if you're not finished with the trike, you can tell him that you're still having a turn. Say, 'I'm not finished, don't push me!'"
I agree. I'm also fine with it if others do the same with my daughter, if I am not right there.
post #42 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by rzberrymom View Post
Really? You would forcibly remove it from him? I've been really uncomfortable with that, especially with her sitting right there.

This happens to us a lot with them. You guys are really helping me.
I would absolutely have taken it from his hands at that point. Gently, but insistently. If the mama won't do it, then you have to for your child. I would be speaking kindly to the boy, but telling him that its not okay to keep her toy and let her get so upset and that it is coming with us since we are leaving now. There is gentle discipline and there is child rules the roost to the point where everyone else has to suffer so the little prince doesn't get his feathers ruffled. To me that does not qualify as GD, just timid parenting.
post #43 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by homewithtwinsmama View Post
There is gentle discipline and there is child rules the roost to the point where everyone else has to suffer so the little prince doesn't get his feathers ruffled. To me that does not qualify as GD, just timid parenting.
I agree and think that this is the case way too often.
post #44 of 228
This was perfectly reasonable for the little boy to want to keep it. It must be the coolest toy ever, cuz look at the reaction this awsome thing is causing.

So, since a two year old can't be "cajoled" into it (they are too smart for that) , you have every right to put your hand out and tell him "it's time for the toy to go inside now".


Sometimes, the situation doesn't call for reasoning. Sometimes it's "You need to give that back now. Thank you!"

Or, "I like sharing with you, but it's time for you to give that to me". WHen he does, offer him something else. Not as a bribe, but as a sign that you really DO like sharing with him.

If you happen to find his Mom's car keys on the ground, take them and be sure to hang on to them, since you feel like it's your turn to use them. Assure her that when you are done you will give them to her to use next.
post #45 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
I think putting a comfort item in "time out" would be even more tramatic on the poor little girl.
No, it really isn't. We do this all the time. It's a safe haven for the toy, and the owner doesn't need to worry about it because it is on the fridge, or in Mommy's purse. That way it's where the owner knows it is safe. Kids appreciate you putting their things away to be kept away from others. We also call it "toy time out".
post #46 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
No, it really isn't. We do this all the time. It's a safe haven for the toy, and the owner doesn't need to worry about it because it is on the fridge, or in Mommy's purse. That way it's where the owner knows it is safe. Kids appreciate you putting their things away to be kept away from others. We also call it "toy time out".
We totally do toy time out, too and it works. But if at that moment, the child who owns the toy really needed it, then it would be time to leave, give her the toy and off you go. Since this is a recurring issue, the child with the beloved toy will easily remember, next time, if you remind her that special toys need to stay in the car, or in the bag, so that they won't be shared.

I would have said, in no uncertain terms, within one minute, that we were getting the toy back, BUT I would have offered up a bunch of toys in trade.

I'm very surprised that the mother of the child didn't just think to offer up a toy in trade.

I'd be tempted to stop having playdates with them though.
post #47 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextcommercial View Post
No, it really isn't. We do this all the time. It's a safe haven for the toy, and the owner doesn't need to worry about it because it is on the fridge, or in Mommy's purse. That way it's where the owner knows it is safe. Kids appreciate you putting their things away to be kept away from others. We also call it "toy time out".
While I agree that kids will appreciate you protecting their favorite things, or even taking the stress of a disputed item out of the picture for a while, I take issue with calling it a toy time out, as if the toy was "being bad". I think that sends a weird message to the kid, as if it's the toy's fault that there is a problem going on. I don't know, maybe it's just me. And believe me, I have removed items from play areas until parties can cool off, if they are being inapropriately handled, used to hurt others, etc. - so it's not that I never had removed a toy from a child. It could just be semantics, but I think it's a little more than that in this case. Mybe it's because of the threat/punishment feeling behind, "do you want that toy to go in time out?" as opposed to a more direct, "hey, you guys are obviously struggling with this, so we're going to get it out of sight for a while". I think that's the catching point for me.

/end ramble
post #48 of 228
Totally agree 4OfUs!
post #49 of 228
hmm that's interesting - I think of "time out" as just needing a break. I give myself a time out when I need to step away and regroup. Time out isn't punishment in all families, but I can see how using the term could be confusing with other kids who DO know it as punishment.
post #50 of 228
I found that, when my kids were familiar with the concept of "time out" as a punishment, they thought it very amusing to have the toy put in "time out". I'd put the door in "time out" if they walked into the door ("Bad door! Stay in the corner!")- it was silly and playful and broke the tension.

I do think they were a bit bigger at that point, though, maybe 4 and 5 when I started doing that, which is a huge developmental leap from 2.5 and 3.
post #51 of 228
maybe I'm just coming from my current situation and POV..... I know that no wy in heck would ds allow us to put a toy up and away if it was his comfort item, and once hes got hysterical, theres no point in trying to carry on with anything, the only option is to leave.
post #52 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by LianneM View Post
hmm that's interesting - I think of "time out" as just needing a break. I give myself a time out when I need to step away and regroup. Time out isn't punishment in all families, but I can see how using the term could be confusing with other kids who DO know it as punishment.
Hm..that's true. I suppose "taking a nap" would be an alternative.

We don't really use "time out" in the punishment sense either, more of "needs a break" type thing around here.
post #53 of 228
Oh wow, if that were my son, I would have unceremoniously removed the toy from him, returned it to your DD, and THEN I would have worked with him through the meltdown (if he had one). My policy when my kids are playing with others is, "The other person first."
post #54 of 228

I read this and thought... that boy is never going to learn

self-discipline. The mom of that boy handled the situation horribly. It is like, she did not want her son to react the way your daughter reacted. Her behavior to me was over the top. I would have firmly said, how he needs to understand the concept of sharing toys and ask for the toy back.

I am slowly learning in my old age that when you set boundaries and expectations of others, firmly, without rancor, they have more respect. If you fail to do so, then people (even kids) tend to walk all over you. That is what the mom did to you. And she is teaching her son to do the same. He will never learn the concept of self-discipline and inner control if he is not taught by example. He will just end up being a me, me, me kid who feels entitled to everything and works for nothing.

I have never read a Kohn book but it seems to me, gentle discipline is all about being sensitive to anothers' needs... and the other mom failed in this regard.

Next time, I would set the expectation with this mom... that when her son is over the top, it is time for you to leave or her to take her son and go. And without the toy.

Good luck,
post #55 of 228
I'm really surprised at how many people are okay with taking something out of a child's hand. My policy is unless a child is causing damage (or there is risk of damage) to the item, damage to something else or harm to someone else than I don't forcibly (no matter how gently) remove it from their hand. I understand how a mom wants to protect her child especially when they are visibly upset, but frankly I don't see why in this particular incident the op's dd needed to be given the toy back just because she became hysterical. Don't get me wrong I don't believe in forced "sharing" of toys. A child should be given as much time as they need to explore and use a toy, but in the original incident the child put down the toy on her own. The little boy did not rip it from her hands. I hear people saying that the other mom is teaching her ds to be a "spoiled brat" but why isn't a mother who thinks her child should immediately get her way just because she is throwing a tantrum not also teaching that child to be "spoiled" (Just so we're straight I don't think either child is spoiled or becoming spoiled, I think both mom's just want there little ones to be happy). I also don't think that the OP's dd is going to be traumatized by waiting until the little boy was done with the toy, no matter how hysterical she was. It sounded to me like the other mom was trying to problem solve (which is rarely effective when dealing with someone who is hysterical). So even though the suggestion to let her son hang on to the toy for the afternoon seemed ludicrous, perhaps she was just trying to generate multiple ideas. It also appears that physically removing something from a child goes against her parenting philosophy, frankly that is a perfectly valid and respectable belief. Knowing (now) that this is her philosophy the OP can in the future choose not to have playdates with this family or take steps to prevent too much conflict in the future.

Start by explaining to your dd that she must not bring anything she is unwilling to share. If she changes her mind about an item once play has begun she can ask you to hold the item to"keep it safe" so the other boy won't use it. If they boy takes something out of your daughters hands than I think that insisting the child return the toy is fine. Using a firm tone and being persistent will eventually get the toy returned to you. That doesn't mean you should let the boy run off and play with the toy, but you will have to be patient and persistent and stay near him until the toy is returned.

I think that will help prevent future conflicts. I hope. Also i think its perfectly reasonable to talk with the mom about how her parenting style and yours differ and decide ahead of time how you guys want to deal with conflicts.
post #56 of 228
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by junipermuse View Post
I understand how a mom wants to protect her child especially when they are visibly upset, but frankly I don't see why in this particular incident the op's dd needed to be given the toy back just because she became hysterical.
Well, I guess for me it was because it belongs to my DD. I understand the need to be as gentle as possible, but I'm getting stuck on the idea that it isn't important who this toy belonged to. Perhaps that's my own hang-up.
post #57 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by rzberrymom View Post
Well, I guess for me it was because it belongs to my DD. I understand the need to be as gentle as possible, but I'm getting stuck on the idea that it isn't important who this toy belonged to. Perhaps that's my own hang-up.
Young children don't understand ownership in the same way that adults do. At the park playdates we go to, all toys are shared by all children. We don't bring toys that can't be shared. Then acting from the assumption that a toy is open for everyone to play with the toy's ownership isn't a factor when disputes arise. Of course at the end of the day everyone goes home with their own toys. Frankly I think its good for a child to see that even when someone else plays with their toy, it still belongs to them and will go home with them when the playdate is over. To bring a toy that can't be shared to a situation where there are other children is setting the stage for conflict.
post #58 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by junipermuse View Post
Frankly I think its good for a child to see that even when someone else plays with their toy, it still belongs to them and will go home with them when the playdate is over.
Sure, but that wasn't the case with the OP. The boy's mother refused to get the toy back so that it could go home with its owner at the end of the playdate; she wanted him to be able to take the toy home.
post #59 of 228
I am really curious how the other mother would have handled the situation if it had been reversed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junipermuse View Post
To bring a toy that can't be shared to a situation where there are other children is setting the stage for conflict.

I agree, and dd and I were always conscious of keeping "special" toys at home (or in the car....or mommy's bag) when with friends. But what if the child realizes when they are out that the toy they brought is too special? What if they intended to share, but then felt unable?

I always said, "dd didn't realize how special that toy is, and she isn't willing to share it right now. Could I please have the toy so I can put it away?" (and then the toy got put away until after the playdate). I've never had a child refuse, and I'm not sure how I would handle it if I had. I would hope that the other mother would support me in getting the toy put away for the duration of the playdate.

Now, if dd were unable to share *any* toys, we would simply go home. It had to be one or two truly special toys--not every toy in the house, lol. But dd never had a lovey, so her special toys were always changing.
post #60 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvirnon View Post
Sure, but that wasn't the case with the OP. The boy's mother refused to get the toy back so that it could go home with its owner at the end of the playdate; she wanted him to be able to take the toy home.
Totally. If the op's dd was completely melting down, and the op decided it was simply time to go, then the toy needed to be returned to the op (mom or dd) so that they could leave with the toy. I can't see anything else being reasonable (unless the op's dd agreed to lend the toy, of course).
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