Wanted: One Known Donor - Page 2

[mama_in_PA]

Originally Posted by expectantmami

I think it depends on who you ask. We screened our KD for STD's , and had lots of LONG conversations about him giving up parental rights so that my DP could pursue a second parent adoption (legal in Illinois-not sure about PA).

We were also picky about who it was. The guy we chose is a professional, smart and a kind person. We thought about the genes we were passing on. I know that I nixed my partner's best friend because I just think he has no ambition-and I'd worry about passing that on. (Silly-but it was my criteria).

We'd have to check on the legalities but aside from that I don't think there would be any problem in regard to that issue. My DF is "clean" but he would agree to testing to reassure the family. He's definitely kind and, although he does not possess a major college degree, he's still successful in his career (we're able to live on his income alone) and continues to work toward higher goals - he's actually going back to school now for several certifications. Are there any other criteria that couples typically look for in a donor?

[pleasantstreets]

I'm also curious about why the "no bank" preference... if it's just financial, then I guess I don't understand the hesitation, because really, if someone can't afford a few hundred a month for the sperm (and possibly the inseminations), then there's no way they're going to be able to afford the diapers, formula if needed, baby food, and daycare that comes after the baby gets here!

I know some people talk about "using up our savings on sperm", and I don't really get it, because if they had to use savings on sperm, then how will they pay for the kid's soft-soled shoes, or little cars, or pretty balls, or the other things that they need and want? How will they cover daycare if one of them works? How will they handle the multiple copays that come along with a serious bout of infection or other problems.

I know that many people on this site live simply, and are not into the whole materialistic thing, and I get that - we're not exactly extravagant here either, with hand-me-down furniture for the baby and mostly resale clothes for him, but still, kids cost a lot! And at least in my case, the sperm was only about $200 a vial, the doctor was $150, and shipping was a one-time charge of $60 (four vials at once, used one a month, got pregnant on the fourth and final vial). So it was basically $365 a month to try to get pregnant (plus the OPKs and pregnancy tests, I suppose) - and let me tell you, that's a BARGAIN compared to what we spend now on the little guy (gladly, I might add - I'd rather go broke taking care of him than get rich without him!)

So... that's a long way to say that if it's just financial things that are holding you back from using a bank, you might want to investigate your options and the "facts on the ground", so to speak. Also consider that you'll most likely need to involve an attorney for at least some of the known donor process, as well as possibly covering the donors medical testing, his travel/other costs, etc., so it could possibly end up costing the same or more than a bank.

And let's be real here - there's also the very real possibility that any known donor, no matter HOW kind or HOW many conversations are had, will change his mind and refuse to sign the termination of parental rights - and then no matter how many agreements you have typed up, you've got an (expensive) custody battle on your hands.

So yeah, for me, the check to the sperm bank was a pretty good deal, in many ways... but I understand that not everyone sees it the same way, so good luck with whatever you decide!

[matchterr]

Originally Posted by pleasantstreets

I'm also curious about why the "no bank" preference... if it's just financial, then I guess I don't understand the hesitation, because really, if someone can't afford a few hundred a month for the sperm (and possibly the inseminations), then there's no way they're going to be able to afford the diapers, formula if needed, baby food, and daycare that comes after the baby gets here!

It's not just financial reasons. There a few reasons why we would prefer not to use one. We have given it some thought, it's not that we won't end up going that route, we would just prefer not to. Who knows... maybe we won't find anyone and we will have to go that route because we want a baby that much. We know the cost of a baby. We know the cost of the banks and we don't even want to know the cost of a lawyer. We have a friend who is a lawyer and willing to help us. As you said in your response... Preference... not totally out of the question, but not where we wish to start this journey.

[mama_in_PA]

When you're looking for a KD, do you look for someone who looks like you? I mean would you be open to a donor of a different ethnicity? I ask because I'd want my children to look like me - at least the same race.

Also, how do the legalities work? I realize both parents want rights but do you have to wait until the baby is born before relinquishing rights or can it be done before the birth? DF brought up a concern about the possibility of the family turning around and fighting for child support. Is there something he can do in the form of legal documentation or something to protect himself in the event that that happens?

[pleasantstreets]

matchterr,

I totally get that there's other reasons to be considered... some people are just plain squicked about what sort of guy might donate to a bank, or by the fact that they get paid for their "donation", or by the lack of id if the kid wants to know them later on, or a host of other reasons...

I think that, if we were in a social circle that included more men, we might have at least considered a known donor a bit more seriously, but in the end, I do think it worked out like it should for us. I certainly hope it works out as well for you, as you would like it to... Honestly, I'm thinking that in the Boston area, you at least have a fairly decent chance of it, as there's just a higher level of awarenss/acceptance up here about queer families and the like!

Good luck! (and thanks for not taking my overly logn response personally earlier - the $ part is really more about other posts I've read than your post, it just sparked the response... that and I'm procrastinating on a big work project!)

[MujerMamaMismo]

Originally Posted by mama_in_PA

When you're looking for a KD, do you look for someone who looks like you? I mean would you be open to a donor of a different ethnicity? I ask because I'd want my children to look like me - at least the same race.

Also, how do the legalities work? I realize both parents want rights but do you have to wait until the baby is born before relinquishing rights or can it be done before the birth? DF brought up a concern about the possibility of the family turning around and fighting for child support. Is there something he can do in the form of legal documentation or something to protect himself in the event that that happens?

Absolutely - I'd be surprised if you found a couple who weren't just as concerned with the rights of the donor and they are their own rights as parents. When you go through all the legalities and get to the point of writing up contracts, it's pretty normal to include an explicit condition that the parents will not claim child support from the donor. And, on the other side, the donor will not ever fight for custody/access of child.

I'm in Australia and not 100% clear on US laws but I think in states where there is second parent adoption, all rights and responsibilities are automatically relinquished by the donor.

PleasantStreets - I don't agree entirely with what you've said - I can imagine a situation where prospective parents would prefer not to use their savings to get pregnant so that they can ensure a reasonable cushion for emergency situations once the child/ren are born. I also think that you need to consider class in queer babymaking situations. Everyone who has the love and commitment to raising children should be able to. As queers, we consider and plan babymaking / child rearing with such detail and intensity and should be trusted to make our own responsible decisions. If someone on a low income wants to have a child, they should be supported and encouraged in doing so. Their finances and associated struggles are their own business as is the case with poor hetero parents.

And then in our case, it's not legal for us to access sperm banks here so we don't have a choice.

[mama_in_PA]

Originally Posted by MujerMamaMismo

Absolutely - I'd be surprised if you found a couple who weren't just as concerned with the rights of the donor and they are their own rights as parents. When you go through all the legalities and get to the point of writing up contracts, it's pretty normal to include an explicit condition that the parents will not claim child support from the donor. And, on the other side, the donor will not ever fight for custody/access of child.

I'm in Australia and not 100% clear on US laws but I think in states where there is second parent adoption, all rights and responsibilities are automatically relinquished by the donor.

At what point in the process are the contracts drawn up?

[MujerMamaMismo]

Originally Posted by mama_in_PA

At what point in the process are the contracts drawn up?

Generally before you start the TTC process. Really though, they are drawn up at a mutually agreeable point. However, if you're in a state with second parent adoption, clearly that can't happen until after the child is born. That does not prohibit you from drawing up some kind of legal statement of intention pre TTC.

There are no hard and fast rules with this stuff. It's still such a new area of law and family making and many of us make it up as we go along. You are right to have lots of concerns and questions - communication is THE most important part of a donor/parent relationship and A LOT of it needs to happen before any decisions / commitments are made.

[frog]

Originally Posted by mama_in_PA

...I'd want my children to look like me - at least the same race.

Why?

[mama_in_PA]

Originally Posted by frog

Why?

Well, I can't say that I really have a good reason. I just think that if I had a choice I'd prefer someone of the same race. Not to say I'm not open to other options but I'm not in that situation. If I were I'd definitely weigh my decisions more carefully. Sorry, I hope what I said wasn't offensive.

[FtMPapa]

Originally Posted by MujerMamaMismo

I'm in Australia and not 100% clear on US laws but I think in states where there is second parent adoption, all rights and responsibilities are automatically relinquished by the donor.

PleasantStreets - I don't agree entirely with what you've said - I can imagine a situation where prospective parents would prefer not to use their savings to get pregnant so that they can ensure a reasonable cushion for emergency situations once the child/ren are born. I also think that you need to consider class in queer babymaking situations. Everyone who has the love and commitment to raising children should be able to. As queers, we consider and plan babymaking / child rearing with such detail and intensity and should be trusted to make our own responsible decisions. If someone on a low income wants to have a child, they should be supported and encouraged in doing so. Their finances and associated struggles are their own business as is the case with poor hetero parents.

For the second parent adoption - yes, the parental rights are relinquished in the adoption, but you want to make sure the sperm donor is willing to relinquish them. If he won't give up his legal rights/responsibilities, the second parent adoption won't happen.

I agree with what you say about $$$.

I used to have full coverage through my union for fertility treatments, including sperm. I was in Canada then, and it cost $700 per month for two vials, and that was with the cheap (local) shipping. If I had bought the sperm through the fertility clinic instead of through my doctor's office, they add a markup for a bunch of tests (sperm counts, mostly) that they run - $1100 + $300 for two IUIs = $1400 per month.

That would have bankrupted me. I know that kids cost money, but here's the thing - I would rather toss that $1400 per month in the bank and have it buy me an extra month off work, a month of daycare, or whatever.

In three tries, I spent about $6,000 including transportation, sperm, OPKs, medication, IUIs, semen analysis, etc. That was on top of what was covered by provincial health care. I got almost all of it back, and I'm not including time off work, though I only missed a couple of hours here and there. I was only working part time as a nanny, but I was a full time grad student and it all went down in the summer months. It didn't have an impact on my teaching, though it did impact my work time, but as an academic, that doesn't translate into dollars as easily, though it's not without value.

However, financial reasons aren't the main reason that I've changed from a anonymous donor to looking for a known donor.

I'm now looking (in a half-hearted way - let's say I'm open to beginning negotiations if I meet the right guy, and the search will ramp up in May or so) for a known donor. That was my first choice anyway, but I had gone with the sperm bank and an anonymous donor because of various factors. While cost is not my primary consideration, it's certainly a factor, and it shouldn't be underestimated how much of a role cost can play.

Of course, class factors as well. I know a few middle-class with working-class roots families who chose a known donor in part because of cost - while they had the money, they couldn't fathom spending it on sperm. I think similarly.

[Frannyo]

I had a known donor and I spent a LOT of money on sperm. We gave him $100 or $150 per "donation" into a ziploc, then we gave him $1000 when we had a viable pregnancy at 12 weeks, then another $1500 when the baby was born, when he signed the termination of parental rights. (I may have the numbers a little off but if so they're a little low.) We considered this a business deal, but we wanted to know our donor at least somewhat. We met him/asked tons of questions/got to know him like maybe five times before the donations began. We also had him tested, his mom and he completed a full physical family history, and we made absolutely sure that he wouldn't change his mind by picking someone who, essentially, saw sperm as waste and just needed the money for to keep his car running. DP and I had very experienced queer lawyers helping us with all the appropriate paperwork, and he signed a contract before we got started, we tracked all money spent on the sperm and "signed for reciept", he signed the termination of parental rights, and DP adopted our daughter.

I am SO GLAD we chose a known donor, and I think of him fondly quite often, though I haven't seen him since the last time I picked up swimmers in his college parking lot 18 months ago. In part, we chose this donor because he looks a little like my cousins, and and he seemed familiar to us. We had a lot of donors outside our race, and though we considered them, DP and I are both of the same race and ethnic backgrounds and we wanted our baby to look like she would "fit" with either of us. It's egocentric but, to be honest, this entire process is egocentric, for gays or straights, it's just that straight people don't have to get all angsty about why they chose their partners with whom they'll make kids.

Do what's right for you. That said, consider that paying a known donor will make it MUCH more attractive to them, particularly in a college town. PM me if you want the details of what we did/how we worked it out.

[auntofmany]

B]PleasantStreets[/B] - I don't agree entirely with what you've said - I can imagine a situation where prospective parents would prefer not to use their savings to get pregnant so that they can ensure a reasonable cushion for emergency situations once the child/ren are born. I also think that you need to consider class in queer babymaking situations. Everyone who has the love and commitment to raising children should be able to. As queers, we consider and plan babymaking / child rearing with such detail and intensity and should be trusted to make our own responsible decisions. If someone on a low income wants to have a child, they should be supported and encouraged in doing so. Their finances and associated struggles are their own business as is the case with poor hetero parents.



It takes much more than love and commitment to raise a child. Money is a real, true, (ugly??) part of raising a child from the time they come home to childhood illnesses to educating them and beyond. I do not believe any person/couple should have a child/ren out of pure desire without realizing all that is involved with raising said child/ren. It is not the responsibility of everyone else (public assistance, etc) to raise a child. I am all for extended family and friends being part of the child/ren's life and being involved in raising the child--that's who parent's should be able to go to when they need support. Just seems extremely selfish to think "I want a child so I will have one--and who cares about the reality of the situation"

[thismama]

Geez, we're not going to get into right wing classist diatribes in the Queer Parenting forum now, are we? Let it go. Just because someone can't afford upwards of $1000/month to get pregnant doesn't mean they don't deserve a child or they haven't thought it through and other people have the right to harp on them and blahblahblah...

This kind of rhetoric in here I find extremely disheartening. To say the least.

[matchterr]

I said it before and I'll say it again....... IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

We know kids cost a lot. If we were straight this wouldn't even be an issue. Why spend ALL that money *IF* we don't need to. And besides... we want our child/ren to know where they came from... the other part of them. We want someone that we can reference to them... so they don't feel as if something is missing... or heaven forbid if something was medically wrong and we needed info or something that we couldn't provide as we wouldn't BOTH be the birth parents. I know people who have donated to banks and honestly... it's frightening. I'm not trying to say banks are horrible. I'm not even against banks... it's not even completely out of the question... that's why I stressed the word PREFER.

Banks are what works for some people and I think thats great. It's not what we PREFER and it's not about MONEY. We have money... maybe not thousands of dollars... and if we did... that's not how we would want to spend it if we could help it. My insurance covers lots of things but fertility stuff is NOT one of them. This entire process is all at our own expense.

And if I'm going to pay someone to help us... I'd at least want to pay someone I know... to help that person out too. No amount of money is enough to reimburse someone for helping us so greatly... I don't even think there are words for it.

Alright... I'm going to step off my "it's not about money" soap box now.

[mama2rey]

PleasantStreets:

One of the many reasons we chose a KD was the financial issue. It isn't that we don't have money. We realize that children are expensive, however one factor was hey-we can get sperm for free, or we can pay 400-1000 dollars a month for who knows how long. We would rather spend that money on college savings, or daycare or anything. Of course there were other reasons. We want our child to know his heritage, and to know about his family tree. We have met so many adopted adults who are seeking their birth families-that we made this choice.

Not that we didn't pay-we took our KD out to lunch for about a gazillion times while we negotiated a contract. We also paid for him to get tested for genetic diseases as well as STD's to the tune of about 800 dollars. Also we are now paying about 2500 dollars for a second parent adoption. I do know that this is significantly less than what other people who TTC for over 6 months with frozen sperm pay.

I know kids are expensive, however just because I chose to not spend hundreds of dollars a month on sperm, does not mean I don't know the cost of raising a child. Straight people get to just have sex and get a baby. Just because I had to work at it-does not mean I don't get to raise my child and not have my ability to provide for him questioned.

[mysticpi]

Originally Posted by FtMPapa

I used to have full coverage through my union for fertility treatments, including sperm. I was in Canada then, and it cost $700 per month for two vials, and that was with the cheap (local) shipping. If I had bought the sperm through the fertility clinic instead of through my doctor's office, they add a markup for a bunch of tests (sperm counts, mostly) that they run - $1100 + $300 for two IUIs = $1400 per month.

Hi FtMPapa!

I'm mainly lurking in this forum since my partner and I are not going to start ttc for one or two more years (I can't wait!!) Anyways, I'm very interested in learning more about what you said about your union covering fertility treatments (we are in Canada too)

Thank you!!

[FtMPapa]

Originally Posted by mysticpi

Hi FtMPapa!

I'm mainly lurking in this forum since my partner and I are not going to start ttc for one or two more years (I can't wait!!) Anyways, I'm very interested in learning more about what you said about your union covering fertility treatments (we are in Canada too)

Thank you!!

It was a negotiated benefit through CUPE 3903 - the graduate student union at York University (Toronto).

Some extended health plans cover fertility treatments, what's not covered by OHIP (for me, in Ontario). OHIP covered the actual fertility clinic - things like bloodwork, ultrasounds, and an HSG test, with no questions asked. I didn't present myself as being infertile, I had never tried to get pregnant before, and I didn't have a history of having unprotected sex with sperm bearers.

My extended health through my union covered the costs associated with Clomid and other drugs, the costs of the sperm and the inseminations. It's very unusual to have that kind of coverage, as far as I know. I think the reason we had it was that it's a self-administered plan - basically a pool of money that the union uses to fund its members for things not covered through our more typical extended health plan through green shield or blue cross or whomever it is, I don't remember now.

[frog]

Originally Posted by mama_in_PA

Well, I can't say that I really have a good reason. I just think that if I had a choice I'd prefer someone of the same race. Not to say I'm not open to other options but I'm not in that situation. If I were I'd definitely weigh my decisions more carefully. Sorry, I hope what I said wasn't offensive.

Oh, I wasn't offended, just curious.

turtle and I are choosing to use a donor of another race than we are. We both appear to be run-of-the-mill white chicks and, honestly, we both think that there are more than enough white people in the world already.

There's more to it, of course, but that's our stock answer at this point.

[FtMPapa]

Originally Posted by frog

Oh, I wasn't offended, just curious.

turtle and I are choosing to use a donor of another race than we are. We both appear to be run-of-the-mill white chicks and, honestly, we both think that there are more than enough white people in the world already.

There's more to it, of course, but that's our stock answer at this point.

Wow.

You know that there are far more people in the world who are not white than there are white people, right?

I'm interested to hear the more to it part, race is something I've gone around and around on with various friends, from my friend who said "But pick an ethnic donor...ethnic babies are the cutest!"

(You know, because I'm not at all ethnic, white though I am. And because that's not at all a completed messed up notion.)

Another friend who was shocked when I said I would consider a known donor who wasn't white. She argued that my child would already have so much to deal with that being mixed race wasn't going to be fair, even if it did mean having a relationship with hir other parent.

To her mind, it would be Ok if I was partnered with an Asian woman to have an Asian child, but not if I was single.

Race is such a complicated issue - I wish our community could have more insightful conversations about it. We are so intentional in our creation of family, and race needs to be part of that conversation, especially for white folk.