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Original Sin

post #1 of 67
11/28/07 at 12:54pm
Thread Starter 
Can anyone please post the scripture that dicusses this stain on us?

I am kinda confused about it.

Example: Are babies born innocent or with sin?

I believe innocent, but would that then not be opposite of having original sin?

Or can you be innocent AND have original sin?

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post #2 of 67
11/28/07 at 1:14pm
Didn't someone explain it in the other thread, let's see if I can remember. They said it is like inheriting debt. You are still responsible to pay it, but it doesn't mean you actually did anything wrong or incurred it. Something like that.

Personally, I don't get it either and I don't believe in original sin.
post #3 of 67
11/28/07 at 1:16pm
Babies are innocent of committing sins but still carry the stain of Original Sin.

We inherit Original Sin from our first parents, Adam and Eve. You can think of it like inheriting a genetic disorder. It doesn't make you a bad person or guilty of anything, it's simply a condition of being born to who you were born to, and predisposes you to something negative. Or, think of it like monetary debts being passed on after a family member's death. When my mom dies, I get the responsibility of paying off her debts. That doesn't mean I've done anything wrong, but I still have to pay for it.

Here's some links, not sure if they're exactly what you're looking for-
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm#III
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/visible4.html
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea5.asp
post #4 of 67
11/28/07 at 1:18pm
Thread Starter 
But if Jesus DIED for our sins and washed us white as snow.......how would we still be stained?

(PS I am still learning about the Bible and really bad at finding scriptures that I have read. I will try to quote scripture but it will take me a while. )
post #5 of 67
11/28/07 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee View Post
But if Jesus DIED for our sins and washed us white as snow.......how would we still be stained?

(PS I am still learning about the Bible and really bad at finding scriptures that I have read. I will try to quote scripture but it will take me a while. )
That is a very good question. If I understand correctly (and there is definitely a good chance that I don't ), the theory is that Jesus died for our sins, but we each as individuals have to accept his sacrifice. The acceptance is what makes it "take effect" for each person so to speak. Babies and young children can't do this so their parents do it for them by baptizing. Then when they are old enough there is confirmation when children acknowledge the sacrifice for themselves. For some Christian religions that don't believe in infant baptism, there is a similar concept of being saved or baptized as an adult or older child to acknowledge the sacrifice. There are also some Christian religions that don't follow either theology and do not believe we are still stained - I think they are more in line with your "washed white as snow" analogy.

Note that I personally don't believe in the entire concept of original sin or anything that follows from it (that Jesus "died for our sins"). I also don't believe in hell. So this is all very theoretical for me.
post #6 of 67
11/28/07 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee View Post
But if Jesus DIED for our sins and washed us white as snow.......how would we still be stained?

(PS I am still learning about the Bible and really bad at finding scriptures that I have read. I will try to quote scripture but it will take me a while. )
maybe one has to live a good life and repent to get rid of the stain i need explained to me, too
post #7 of 67
11/28/07 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee View Post
But if Jesus DIED for our sins and washed us white as snow.......how would we still be stained?

(PS I am still learning about the Bible and really bad at finding scriptures that I have read. I will try to quote scripture but it will take me a while. )
Did you read this article that CherryBomb linked? I think it addresses you question quite well.


http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea5.asp

You must bear in mind that Catholics do not rely on scripture alone, but also tradition. This website has lots of good, usually short and to the point, articles explaining Catholic perspectives.
post #8 of 67
11/28/07 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzepplon View Post

You must bear in mind that Catholics do not rely on scripture alone, but also tradition. .
This is what I think is causing most of my confusion.
post #9 of 67
11/28/07 at 2:16pm
I look at it this way. When Adam and Eve were living in the garden of Eden life was a certain way, as a result of what happened life is now different and can't be changed back to what it was then. That is my analogy of original sin.
post #10 of 67
11/28/07 at 2:19pm
Thread Starter 
Ok...read article (will need to reread) but I am more confused now.

Infant baptism washes away original sin, right?

Then why would we STILL be prone to sickness, sinful choices, accidents, etc if those things were allowed as a result of original sin?
post #11 of 67
11/28/07 at 2:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
I look at it this way. When Adam and Eve were living in the garden of Eden life was a certain way, as a result of what happened life is now different and can't be changed back to what it was then. That is my analogy of original sin.
This makes sense.

I guess I wonder why infant baptism then. Does baptism somehow change this?
post #12 of 67
11/28/07 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelBee View Post
Infant baptism washes away original sin, right?

Then why would we STILL be prone to sickness, sinful choices, accidents, etc if those things were allowed as a result of original sin?
We live in a FALLEN world.

The ENTIRE WORLD was punished for the Original Sin of Adam, not just each one of us.

This is why the world is now imperfect, and does not function the way it did in Paradise.

Infant Baptism washes away the PUNISHMENT (i.e. Hell) due to Original Sin, not the "stain" of Original Sin. So, if your baby dies before reaching the age of reason, they will go to Heaven and not Limbo. The baby is "innocent" insofar as they have not committed any actual or personal sin.

We are ALL still stained by Original Sin, as is the world itself, and this is what gives us our propensity to do evil instead of good, or what makes it HARDER for us to do good.
post #13 of 67
11/28/07 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyL View Post
Infant Baptism washes away the PUNISHMENT (i.e. Hell) due to Original Sin, not the "stain" of Original Sin. So, if your baby dies before reaching the age of reason, they will go to Heaven and not Limbo. The baby is "innocent" insofar as they have not committed any actual or personal sin.
I don't want to divert the discussion, but let me just point out that this is part of the Catholic view of Original Sin, which differs from the Eastern Orthodox one. We do not accept Limbo, the existence of punishment for Original Sin, or even the same interpretation of Original Sin.
post #14 of 67
11/28/07 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabadger View Post
I don't want to divert the discussion, but let me just point out that this is part of the Catholic view of Original Sin, which differs from the Eastern Orthodox one. We do not accept Limbo, the existence of punishment for Original Sin, or even the same interpretation of Original Sin.
Lots of Roman Catholics don't accept the Limbo theory either, but that's another thread.
post #15 of 67
11/30/07 at 9:19pm
Romans 5:12 (KJV)
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

I can't help you with what Catholics believe, but this is the scripture that sprang to mind.
post #16 of 67
12/3/07 at 5:58pm
"Original sin" describes our state of separation from God. It doesn't mean that we're guilty of anything, but that we live in a world where we are free to choose good or evil, and in such a world evil and suffering exists. If you're a Christian, you probably believe that through Jesus we are reconciled to God--that Jesus is the Way to Atonement (at-one-ment) with God.
post #17 of 67
12/3/07 at 6:27pm
Probably subject for another thread but lately I'm having a hard time with the concept that God would need to send someone as a human sacrifice, especially his son, to save the world from sin. I mean the concept that killing someone is somehow a sacrificial act is just
post #18 of 67
12/3/07 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
Probably subject for another thread but lately I'm having a hard time with the concept that God would need to send someone as a human sacrifice, especially his son, to save the world from sin. I mean the concept that killing someone is somehow a sacrificial act is just
I'm sounding like a broken record, but the doctrine of the Atonement is also exclusively Roman Catholic, although I think some Protestant denominations adopted it as well.
post #19 of 67
12/3/07 at 9:59pm
Sorry to make you repeat mamabadger but what is the Orthodox Churches teaching regarding the purpose of Jesus' death? Sorry if this has already been covered in another thread, if it has can you point me n the right direction and I'll do a search for it.
post #20 of 67
12/3/07 at 10:20pm
I do not believe in the concept of original sin or the fall of Adam and Eve. I do believe however that we are perfect beings at the core but in order to have actual experiences of really knowing ourselves we had to enter the darkness of the physical realm and forget who we really are so we could accomplish what we came here to accomplish. There is a higher plan to all this.

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