Original Sin - Page 4

[mamabadger]

Originally Posted by avent

Can someone point me in the direction of resources to read the Orthodox Church's point of view?

Nice article, ChasingPeace.

There is also this...
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/frjr_sin.aspx

and this...
http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/KalomirosRiverFire.php

If you are interested enough to read an entire book, there is an excellent collection of homilies on the subject by St. Symeon. It was originally published under the title The Sin of Adam, but is now available as The First-Created Man.

[anotherKatrina]

Originally Posted by nora--not a llama

My feeling is if a person has come to that point where they understand God's gift and they choose to reject it, THEN there is a problem.

This may be derailing the thread...or not...and I am absolutely not trying to put down your POV, but I don't think it is possible for humans to fully understand God's gift. God is completely beyond our understanding. Rejecting any of God's gifts is an indication of not understanding.

Which perhaps brings me to the way I understand Original Sin. The big sin of Adam and Eve was that they forgot who they were. They forgot they were holy creatures; they forgot that the serpent offered them nothing that they didn't already have. They didn't understand. We don't understand and we forget. Forgetting who we are causes us to sin. If we always had full awareness of who we are...holy creatures...we would never sin. Like Jesus.

[spero]

Originally Posted by anotherKatrina

...I don't think it is possible for humans to fully understand God's gift. God is completely beyond our understanding. Rejecting any of God's gifts is an indication of not understanding.

Which perhaps brings me to the way I understand Original Sin. The big sin of Adam and Eve was that they forgot who they were. They forgot they were holy creatures; they forgot that the serpent offered them nothing that they didn't already have. They didn't understand. We don't understand and we forget. Forgetting who we are causes us to sin. If we always had full awareness of who we are...holy creatures...we would never sin. Like Jesus.

Wow. Well said!

[nora--not a llama]

Originally Posted by anotherKatrina

This may be derailing the thread...or not...and I am absolutely not trying to put down your POV, but I don't think it is possible for humans to fully understand God's gift. God is completely beyond our understanding. Rejecting any of God's gifts is an indication of not understanding.

Which perhaps brings me to the way I understand Original Sin. The big sin of Adam and Eve was that they forgot who they were. They forgot they were holy creatures; they forgot that the serpent offered them nothing that they didn't already have. They didn't understand. We don't understand and we forget. Forgetting who we are causes us to sin. If we always had full awareness of who we are...holy creatures...we would never sin. Like Jesus.

You are completely misinterpreting what I said and what I mean. I do not presume to say that anyone can understand God. What I mean is that when we understand/recognize that Jesus died for us and that salvation is a free gift of grace....not that anyone can completely understand grace, but that we can understand that God gives it to us freely.

[anotherKatrina]

Originally Posted by nora--not a llama

You are completely misinterpreting what I said and what I mean. I do not presume to say that anyone can understand God. What I mean is that when we understand/recognize that Jesus died for us and that salvation is a free gift of grace....not that anyone can completely understand grace, but that we can understand that God gives it to us freely.

I didn't misinterpret. I get what you're saying. I still think this is really hard to understand or recognize. I don't understand it. I only hope I recognize it when I'm in the midst of it. I've just chosen to stick with the belief because I cannot bring myself to reject it. To me, 'understanding of' is less important than 'wrestling with'.

[AngelBee]

Nora....I am leaning with you on this one.

So much to read! :

Loving this thread! Thank you all for discussing

Keep going.... :

[CherryBomb]

Originally Posted by ChasingPeace

I agree. I think the "satisfaction of a debt" view of the Atonement is pretty two-dimensional and misses the richness of meaning present in the Orthodox Church's view. But there is value in the "satisfaction of a debt" view (for me, at least). It's turning the story of Abraham and Isaac (as well as the Jewish practice at the time of offering sacrifice to God) on its head. When I view it mythically, it's a very beautiful description of God's amazing love for us.

I think it can be, but doesn't have to be. Satisfaction of debt is the technical part. But the deeper implication is very rich, imo.

God's perfect justness required satisfaction of the debt, yes. And HE offered that satisfaction for us! He humbled himself to be born amongst us and killed by us to pay it. That's pretty amazing and humbling to me.

Why would God demand a bigger sacrifice than anyone was capable of paying? Why is a divine sacrifice asked for from humans, and then even that would not be enough,were they capable of making it? Why not demand the largest sacrifice they could actually make on their own?

But someone WAS capable of paying it- God. And he did pay it, because of his love and mercy.