Just thinking . . .

[leewd]

I'm a planner (over-planner might be a better way of saying it) . . .

First things first: Unschooling does NOT appeal to me in ANY way.

My original "plan" was to work FT from March 2007 (DD1 almost 3 and DD2 18 mo) to Sept 2009 when DD1 would be ready for "school" (this is when she will start K per the public schools). This is also when we planned to have baby#3.

So, I would have a 5.5 yo, an almost 4yo, and a newborn. Well, that's not what happened! DD3 will arrive in the next month or so, and I will quit my FT job. I will have 3 DDs under 4yo.

DD1 is doing some "school" at home but nothing formal. They use an A Beka curriculum at daycare/pre-school which I'm not thrilled with.

ANYWAY!

Plan 1:
Send DD1 to pre-K in Sept 2008, and K in Sept 2009.
Then in Sept 2010, DD2 will miss the birthday deadline to start K.
Pull DD1 out and start HS in Sept 2010.
DD1 in "grade 1"
DD2 in "K."
(DD3 will be 2.75).

Plan 2:
Sept. 2010 - Leave DD1 in school
Do "K" at home with DD2 (she cannot go to public K because of b-day)
THEN pull DD1 out in Sept. 2011
DD1 will do "grade 2" at home;
DD2 will do "grade 1"
and DD3 will be 3.75 (old enough to "play school")

I already know I'm overthinking this, so please don't harp on that!

I like having rough sketches of the future.

DH's ideal woould be to send them to PS through 3rd-4th grade, then pull them out and HS. . . .

What do y'all think?

[Lillian J]

I'm sorry - I've read it three times, but I'm still not clear. Are you going to be going back to working full time for a while anytime within the next few years? If not, I'm not clear as to why you woud be sending any of them to school. Once they get into school, it can be difficult for some to have to leave their friends and other things they've come to find enjoyable, especially if they're coming home to a situation where the littler ones will be taking up a lot of attention and time from their moms. - Lillian

[leewd]

Well, I'd like to work PT, but not FT.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but . . .

I'm just thinking it will be easier for me to not have them all around 24/7. It's hard to get anything done while they're here. DH and I are already budgeting to keep DD1 and DD2 in daycare PT next year, so I can have some 1-on-1 time with the baby. If I send at least DD1 to PS (which is free), I won't have to pay for childcare for her.

especially if they're coming home to a situation where the littler ones will be taking up a lot of attention and time from their moms.

I guess I'm also thinking that because I will not be able to give Alex the 1-on-1 time she needs while DD3 is really little, she would be better off going to PS instead of being ignored at home. This way, I can give the baby to DH in the evenings and focus on DD1 for an hour or so while I have help.

I'm really trying to sketch out the least stressful situation for all of us (DH, me, and the DDs). Of course, this could ALL change . . . I just want to have an idea of where I'm going.

My biggest delima is DD2. She is extremely bright and will be ready for K when she is 4.9 yrs, but she will not be allowed to start. If I HS her for one year while DD1 is in PS, then I only have to HS one kid while taking care of DD3 who will be 2.75 and still very demanding. This might make a better transition (for me) than taking DD1 out of PS and HS 2 kids AND taking care of DD3, YKWIM?

[Pinky Tuscadero]

"she would be better off going to PS instead of being ignored at home"

Better to be ignored by a teacher dealing with 35 kids than not getting one-on-one by mommy? Not getting one-on-one is not being ignored. It's life in a family. It's the natural progression that the older children help mom with the little ones who need more attention. Plus, an older child will want some free time to play and not need mom's attention 24 hours a day (says the mom who's 6, 4 and 2 yr olds have been downstairs playing for an hour already). i think having a kid in school is even more work than just keeping them home. It's a lot of work getting them up and off to school, dealing with homework every night (even in kindergarten), not to mention the expense of public school. It's no longer free. Now you have to provide basics for the class- paper, tissues, toilet paper, etc. It's ridiculous!
There are so many reasons to homeschool that don't even touch the effect on social skills or actual learning!

[636Jen]

Originally Posted by Pinky Tuscadero

"It's a lot of work getting them up and off to school, dealing with homework every night (even in kindergarten), not to mention the expense of public school. It's no longer free. Now you have to provide basics for the class- paper, tissues, toilet paper, etc. It's ridiculous!
There are so many reasons to homeschool that don't even touch the effect on social skills or actual learning!

I know I'm just starting out learning about this but I wanted to touch on this for a minute. It is absolutely a ton of work and stress getting the kids off to school. Most mornings I feel like a terrible mom because I am yelling at them to hurry up. Hurry up and what....sit on a bus for a 1/2 hour? Most days I just drive them so that I can let them sleep in for a little while longer or be able to just take our time.

YES, schools are now "highly suggesting" we buy all their supplies. Pencils, pens, markers, crayons, erasers, glue, glue sticks, folders, spiral notebooks, kleenex, highlighters and even supplies for the art room such as paints, brushes, colored pencils, scissors, etc etc. I couldn't believe the list we were given on the first day of school!! Not to mention, they require you to pack two snacks per kid and either lunch money or a lunch from home. That's stress enough to make my head spin!!

Anyway, sorry for getting a little O/T....

[AngelBee]

You need a break from thinking!

Honestly....If you want to work part time, then have them in child care during that time and still homeschool. Maybe have the child care for a little more then you work so you have "you" time too. I think being with you is exactly where they should be for school.

I am a mother of 4 ages 8 and under who works out of the home a minimum of 20 hours a week (usually with at least 2 of them in tow) and does work from home. You find your nitch. There are days that I want to pull my hair out. There are days that are so wonderful that just the thought of my precious angels brings tears of joy to my eyes. : It is a journey.....but a journey I would not want to miss!

[leewd]

I seriously doubt it will be anywhere near as much work as I do now. I already have to get them up, to the potty, and dressed before packing them off (with DH) to go after waking them up at 6:30 in the morning. I also send cloth diapers for the 2yo and do laundry most evenings.

Add'l work if she goes to PS: Keeping her vax exemption up-to-date which I can stop doing if she no longer goes to DC or PS.

As for cost, I pay $204.5/week for FT care for 2. PLUS a "book fee" in August (it was about $70 this year for 2). Granted all food is provided now, so that will add to my cost.

Next year, we plan to pay for PT care (so 204.5/2 weeks) plus the same book fee in the fall (no discounts for PTers).

School supplies will cost what $200/year? That's a bargain!
I'll have to find out about snacks, etc.

The PS is across the street and around the block, so no bus is available. I will either walk them all over to drop DD1 or take the car.

And I think the class size is about 18-20, but you make a good point about her being ignored there just the same as being ignored at home. I guess I just feel less guilt when I don't have to witness it . . .

Now, please realize I'm not trying to knock keeping her at home. I'm just weighing my options. I want us BOTH (really all, but focusing on DD1 here) to find a nice happy balance. I don't want her to be jealous of the little ones being at home while she is gone, But I also don't want us to resent each other because I just need her to go away and play by herself, so I can deal with the little ones!

Please keep the ideas coming. I really want to have all the pros and cons in front of me here!
--LEE

[leewd]

AngelBee - But I LIKE thinking! I've had prenatal depression and haven't been able to think or make plans for most of this pregnancy. My Zoloft is finally high enough that I CAN think. It feels so good!

Thanks!
--LEE

[Lillian J]

It might help to take a close look at what you think of as kindergarten. I know you said, "First things first: Unschooling does NOT appeal to me in ANY way," but there's a difference between unschooling and keeping teaching to just what's necessary in order to accomplish certain goals.

Not really that long ago, kindergartners in public schools were not even expected to start into the 3Rs - that all started in 1st grade. The very word, kindergarten, once implied a children's garden - a place for play and nourishment of growth and imagination. Here's a page that has a number of articles about the preschool/kindergarten years, and also, beneath those, annotated links to websites that have lots of ideas for activities with little ones.

When you homeschool, you can accomplish infinitely faster and easier progress than when a child is in a school setting - so there would be nothing to set your daughter back by starting into the 3Rs when she's a little older - while still being able to have rich learning experiences of all kinds earlier, and with her big sister, to nurture her intelligence and curiosity in ways that wouldn't require the close one-on-one focus that you're probably imagining you'll need for kindergarten. Regardless of whether you unschool, homeschooling really doesn't require a lot of intense teaching time, nor does it require a lot of intense seat work on the part of the children. The learning comes a whole lot easier and more naturally than most people who haven't yet homeschooled imagine that it can.

- Lillian

[zeldamomma]

Why do you want to homeschool? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely interested. It would be easier to give you advice if I understood your goals.

FWIW, having a 3 and 4 year old at home is MUCH MUCH easier than having a 2 and 3 year old.

ZM

[leewd]

Lillian -
I'd never heard that about the "children's garden" before. When I was in K, I did not learn to read (just some flash card words). Then we moved across the state and I was put in a 1st grade class where everyone else knew how to read . . . I had already learned all about math and numbers from everyday life.

As for DD1, she is very interested in reading. She WANTS to read already (3.5yo!), but she doesn't have the mental capacity yet. I have every confidence she will be reading by the time she is 5.

I don't want to force academics on her, but I want her to have what she craves. What I think I'm weighing is how to provide her with all the academics she craves without neglecting the other 2 (and vice versa). PS will be able to focus exclusively on meeting this need in her. Then I can focus on it once the other 2 are old enough that we can ALL sit down together and read or do whatever we are doing.

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

FWIW, having a 3 and 4 year old at home is MUCH MUCH easier than having a 2 and 3 year old.

Thank Goodness!

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

Why do you want to homeschool? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely interested. It would be easier to give you advice if I understood your goals.

Mostly because of mine and DH's experiences with school.

I HATED elementary because I was a late reader, but an "early math-er." I was at least a year ahead of my peers in all things number related, but I remember being laughed at when I could not read the word umbrella.
This is why I want my kids to do the early stuff at home. They can learn at their own pace. No one will roll their eyes at them if they can't "stay busy" during math (or reading) hour, nor will anyone mock them for being slow in another area.
Once I got to JH and HS and I could choose some of my own classes (and I wasn't so fat), things got better.

For DH, it was much the opposite. He was a certified super-genious even in elementery and he and 2 other kids like him were pretty much set aside and allowed to do all sorts of fun stuff.
But once he got in JH and HS, things went downhill. His bipolar2 kicked in (not diagnosed of course) and he was socially ackward. The acedemics at the JH and HS were terrible and the tiny school he went to just couldn't provide him anything.

My HS ideal:
HS from K-5or6, then find a good secondary.
DH's HS ideal:
PS from K-4or5 (supplement at home with magazines and lots of games), then pull them out and let them do the rest at their own pace. Possibly "graduating" by age 16 and going on the JR college while still living at home.

Does that answer your question?

[leewd]

I didn't think about it this way before, but I don't want to HS for social or religious reasons although I'm sure I will take advantage of having more "control" in these areas.

It's really all about the academics and learning.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by leewd

Lillian -
I'd never heard that about the "children's garden" before. When I was in K, I did not learn to read (just some flash card words). Then we moved across the state and I was put in a 1st grade class where everyone else knew how to read . . . I had already learned all about math and numbers from everyday life.

Ah! I guess you were first in an area where they hadn't yet started pulling the 1st grade curriculum down into kindergarten. That must have been a harrowing experience to find yourself in midst of everyone who'd already learned to read. I remember only too well how some children can blurt out the darndest insults at that age without even trying to be mean, much less what they can do when they're trying.

As for DD1, she is very interested in reading. She WANTS to read already (3.5yo!), but she doesn't have the mental capacity yet. I have every confidence she will be reading by the time she is 5.

It may not take much time to get her there, though - and your helping her accomplish that would not take up large periods of time. Lillian

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by leewd

I didn't think about it this way before, but I don't want to HS for social or religious reasons although I'm sure I will take advantage of having more "control" in these areas.

It's really all about the academics and learning.

My goals are similar-- I have bright kids, and I want them to be able to learn at their own pace, while still having lots of down time and time to play and be kids. My husband went to non-traditional elementary school that allowed him to work at his own pace (and to do no spelling work at all for years!)-- I had to teach him what traditional schools are like. You might need to do the same for your husband.

I have a 7 year old dd, a 5.5 year old dd and a toddler ds. If we could afford help, I would have a mother's helper come in and watch the toddler for a couple mornings a week, but I couldn't see sending the older ones to school. I don't think my kids would learn much in school (except handwriting ) and it would eat up huge amounts of family time. My younger dd is an introvert, and a full day of school would completely wear her out-- she would have no energy left to do things with us during the week. Also, I'm a control freak, and I would drive their teachers crazy. :

My impression of being a school-mom is that the school gets to do all the fun stuff with your kids, and you get the grunt work-- laundry, getting them to bed in time so you can get them up in time so you can get them out the door on time, managing all the school paperwork, and whatever your kid isn't excelling at is entirely your fault.

I'm not ruling out sending my kids to school later, but at this point, I prefer their getting a solid foundation in the basics at home.

ZM

[carmel23]

I totally agree with Zeldamomma above. Although, my oldest had a great kindergarten year--but we are now going to homeschool. I have three kids--and getting one off the school and picked up is a lot to do. He is really bored and when at home he loves to draw and read. I'd rather him do these things, and be happy.

It can be stressful for a intelligent youth in a traditional school. But it really depends on the school/child mix.

I would caution about sending them to school until 4th grade. I have seen my son learn so many negative things while being really bright in a class of his age-mates but not really his peers... and subjected to behavior control systems --crowd control--for 20 kids in a room.

Just see what works, knowing that you can always homeschool when you want.

[Tigeresse]

Originally Posted by carmel23

I would caution about sending them to school until 4th grade. I have seen my son learn so many negative things while being really bright in a class of his age-mates but not really his peers... and subjected to behavior control systems --crowd control--for 20 kids in a room.

I agree with this. If you want to do school at some point I would wholeheartedly recommend waiting until the kids are older. The early years are so formative, this is when they need mom the most, and that sense of security and self is formed. They can often approach school later with their own well-formed ideas of what *they* want to achieve there, and can actually take advantage of what school has to offer.

We just had a discussion about this in a homeschool group meeting recently, lots of the moms of younger kids were saying they thought the most important time to keep kids home was the jr high/high school years due to peer pressure, etc. I believe the opposite is true, that most of the negative impact will come in early years making them more suseptible later on.