Problematic Teacher. Serious and Time Sensitive.

[b|ue_Ash]

I'm not sure this the right place to put this.
Really going out on a limb here, I've already talked to the few people I know in real life with children, which is... not really any.

In short, my dd has behavior problems, we have and always have been working on these to help her.

She's gone to a new school, and her current teacher is not the best for her. She is stifling my dd's learning ability and furthering her behavioral problems.

To make matters worse, she's also begun coming up with some "accusations" that could land us smack dab in the middle of a large problem with Child Protective Services, if the teacher chose to take it that far.

Needless to say, these accusations are false, and unfounded. None the less.

From both my dd's therapist, a family member who works in helping abused/neglected children (often reported initially by school teachers) and another family member that is a school teacher for "gifted" children.
Whom all said we should put her in a different class immediately, if not an entirely different school.

Which leads me to my next problem, it appears that my dd's teacher is not showing any signs of "lighting up" on these accusations and worse yet, is creating a rift between dd and her parents.

At this point I'm forced with two decisions... of which I am not sure which is best for many conflicting reasons.

1.) Stick with it for now, in hopes that her teacher doesn't do anything drastic while I take some time off of work and try to find a different and better suited school to put her in. This however requires a lot of time, as private schools aren't cheap, and I need to find a school/teacher which is compatible with her and understanding of her. And coming up with a good enough and valid reason why she should be allowed to attend a school outside of her district.

2.) Send my dd far away for the rest of the year to stay with a family member enrolled in an entirely different school, JUST to get her away from this crazy teacher, sooner then later. And allowing me more free time to investigate a different/better school with out all the worry and urgency.

Obviously I don't want to be away from my dd for so long. I'm worried it will effect her behavior, and her academics.
She's already at risk of not passing this school year due to this... teacher of hers.


I know it's pretty off the wall, but has anyone ever dealt with anything like this at all?
All of my dd's other teachers have for the most part been ok, and understanding and would work with me to create an environment to help my dd flourish and diminish some of her behavior problems.
My dd has always really liked school and her teachers, but not this one.

The family member who deals with abused/neglected children has strongly warned me AGAINST talking to the school principle about this, out of fear that they may retaliate and do something like calling CPS, because I "dared" questioned their ability as being what's best for my dd.

Please help!! This needs to be taken care of, but it's all new to me, I don't want to make a rash decision.

[Maiasaura]

OMG this thread could be SO me. i don't know your details, since you didn't post them. but except for the DSS intervention threat, it sounds so like my situation. in fact i came here ready to post and vent and whine and cry and YELL!!! :

we homeschooled till this year. ds will be 7 in january, so he's in 1st grade. i started him at this one school, where i know there were *some* behavior issues because of the chart with the smilies that they sent home, and the reports from ds himself that he had to walk the perimeters of the tennis court instead of playing at recess, but other than that, i never EVER heard from the school.

well, then, the charter school of my dreams (or so i thought!) called, and we switched schools 6 weeks into the term. i also bought a home and we moved, all in the same week. now, i thoroughly expect behavior issues with all that, from *any* type of child, but the new school was calling me on the 2nd day! and i had to have a conference in the first week, AND they wanted to administer ds's 2nd dose of meds at school, AND they are getting way too nosy about his meds (and this is supposedly a crunchy hippy school, not a regular public!!), AND his teacher is apparently way, way too demanding and her expectations are way too high for my poor little ADHD low-self-esteem child. and his moods are getting worse, and his esteem is getting worse (omg, i SO don't want this to happen) and the teacher actually-- get this-- used the word "require" of ME!!! of *ME*!!!!! like.....NOT. b***ch. i'm so angry i could spit nails.

you know, i wouldn't be surprised with a DSS call, now that you mention it. she better not. DSS is super bad in this area. but i'm not worried, actually, cause ds has been seeing the same counsellor since he was 3.

the thing is-- and this is the weird thing-- there were NO probs at the first school. none. i never, ever heard from them. never. the meds haven't changed. ds hasn't changed. i can't figure it out. neither can his counsellor. the only thing we can figure is the teacher is a really, really bad fit. i called his old teacher and left a msg to see if i can find out about ds's behavior there, and what they did about it.

not to hijack your thread, i'm sorry-- i just can't believe i found someone with a similar situation!!!

can you move your child to another classroom in the same school? can you homeschool (or bring her home, to un/deschool for awhile), at least in the interim while looking for another situation? what state do you live in? or country (sorry to assume the USA, oops!)? how old is she?

let's hope we can help one another....good luck to you. i truly feel for your situation!

pamela

[kmeyrick]

I don't really feel I have enough information from your post to give you any clear directions. Why is this teacher crazy? What are the accusations? I would NOT send a child with behavioral problems to some relative. That will make you look worse to outside eyes, it will be very bad for your daughter and will not help her behavior issues. Also, a relative may not be able to do the job.

So, my advice: preemptively get a lawyer. Don't say you can't afford it- you will be paying a lot more if CPS steps in. Freedom of speech does not protect slander. Document everything- keep all e-mails and notes. Call the board of education TOMORROW and report what this teacher is doing, THEN call the principal. That way, no one will have time to cover their butts. Pull your daughter out and homeschool if you have to, but don't ship her off elsewhere.

[b|ue_Ash]

mercyn: I am very sorry to hear that you are going through a similar problem. It is maddening isn't it!
If I was home alone, and didn't have any support tonight, I would probably be crying out of frustration.

kmeyrick: You do make a valid point, one I have mulled over and over.

On one hand, if I send her down to my relative even for a month, quailifed as that relative might be. Someone could see it as me having something to hide. I have considered that.

A little background..

My dd is 7 1/2 she will be 8 years in Feb, she's in 2nd grade.

She's always been a straight A+ student thus far, she had behavioral problems starting in day care around 4 years of age, I never saw any evidence of this at home until about a half a year later, at that time I started seeking therapist, counclers and I enrolled her in Pre-School.
I found that the structured and challening enviroment of Pre-School helped to deminish her behaviroal problems.

She was so young, I heard right and left that "until she's older, of school age no one can help her or give her a true evaluation" I had friends, teachers and therapist tell me this over and over.

So we waited, tried a few others only to be told the same thing.
I have FINALLY found a new therapist that seems to be deidicated to her. We've only met a couple times so far, and with her help she has led me in the direction of someone who is capable of dealing with my dd's advanced behavioral problems (Think along the linds of ODD and RAD). And to have an IEP done to find out what exactly is going on, how to approach that, and to have the proof for her school that says "yes she has such and such problem, and THIS is how everyone can help her including the school to work with her."

This is all in the works right now, but doens't happen over night.

Through out the years my dd has shown time and time again that she does better in a VERY structured and routine, challening enviroment.
Everyone including her current therapist thinks that my dd is incredibly smart, more then smart. And an "average" school or a class room without much structure will be damaging for her, and cause her to act our more innapropriately.

Now for the current problem.

We met with my dd's teachers (meeting her for the first time, though we had corresponded via notes and through the in school day care providers on several occasions.)

During the meeting she would say things to us like "She (my dd) gets this look in her eye *pause*... there is something WRONG with her." She said this several times during our meeting, just like that.
She also admitted to holding my dd OUT of more advanced classes because of her behavior problems. And refused to see or even consider that my dd is having some of these behavior problems because she is BORED and un challenged.

Please keep in mind, I in no way imposed the fact that this teacher was inapt, or not proper for my dd. I was very calm and patient with her, trying to work with her and not accusitory.

Here in my home, we are not religious, and there are certain holidays we just don't celebrate, etc.
The teacher said that my dd was disruptive towards the other children, meaning that her beliefs that her family doesn't believe in god, or that santa isn't real, or that we dont celebrate Christmast is WRONG, it's abnormal, LIES and disruptive.
She even said to me "Your (dd) and I have made a pact to re-educate mommy (me) on these types of matters."

She said that all of my daughters past WONDEFUL report cards must have been accidental, a MISTAKE. Said she see's it happen all the time!

When I tried to mention that my dd does very well in a structured setting (I really didn't even get to finish my scentence, and I in no way said that her class room was not structured) she cut me off, sat up straight in her chair, leaning forward a little with a stern look on her face and started spouting out..."I assure you my class room is VERY structured, there is no problem with that! I have help many children with these kind of behavioral problems, there's never been a child I couldn't help! If you spend enough time being a teacher you see that these problems often lie else where!"

And now for the biggie... the one that concerns me the most.

About a year ago, we were all sitting at home, mother, father and a friend, watching television.
My dd comes walking into the room, to sit down at her chair. She falls backwards in her chair and starts screaming her head off, and doesn't stop!
So of course I look her over to try and find out what in the world happened. I also noticed several acorns that were in her hand and on her chair in a pocket (on the children chair) at the time, that were now scattered all over the floor.
Come to find out that she had hurt her self "down there" on the outside (NOT the inside). So I of course quickly took her to a night time clinic to see a doctor.
They gave us medication for her which that, and going potty for the next couple days stung like the dickens! I remember, I went deaf listening to her screaming while trying to sooth her on the occasions it was time to go potty or to apply the medicine.

At any rate... apparently my dd had mentioned the fact that she had to go to a night time clinic late at night one night to the teacher.

In the teachers own words she said to us "Your dd told me that she had to go to a clinic late at night one night... *pause* she had apparently been hurt "down there"...:
Said nothing more, left it as an open ended question, I knew what she was doing I am very good at inter/intrapersonal skills due to a former job I had which demanded that of me.

We explained what had happened during that night, we did not say anything like "how dare you" or "my child likes to lie".
We simply said "yes, that was a long time ago when she was still in 1st grade, what happened was...."

The teacher never said "thank you for explaining that" never even said "ok" she just sat there for a moment, and then changed the subject.

She has also chosen to with hold information from us about her behavior in school. She told us at the meeting of the day my dd became upset in class, started screaming and threw her desk across the class room and admitted that she decided not to tell us.

So now, a week after this conference (her school was closed all week due to holiday) I've been contemplating how to handle this, and on the side hoping that the teacher had cooled off, and that everything had been explained.

However... with out being prompted, my dd told me recently while talking to her about school one day that her teacher told my dd to tell her immediately if anything bad ever happened at home, or anything which upset her.
Which you and I know exactly what that means.
But a small child has no idea what her teacher really meant... to her it could mean she wants her to tell her teacher when she gets a time out.
My dd paused for a moment, looking a bit conflicted and then said "but mommy, I don't want to do that, I don't want to say lies about my parents!"

Today, my dd walked up to me after I had gotten her clothes for the morning saying "My teacher said to make sure I ALWAYS have clean clothes, on and that I'm ALWAYS wearing socks.

I explained to my daughter in detail, that her clothes ARE always washed and cleaned, and that on the days she wears her crocks to school, no one wears socks with crocks.

She went on, and protested "but my teacher said..!"

At which point I got upset and calmy said to her "Well then, you should tell her teacher to mind her own business".

She looked me me, frustrated and said "Why don't you tell her yourself!" and then walked away from me.

My child had just litterally woken up, walked out of her bedroom and came and said this to me.

We have 2 sets of clothes here, school clothes and normal clothes.
The normal clothes are nice clothing, which she's not allowed to wear to school BECAUSE at school she's always been very hard on her clothes.

A long time ago I was paranoid about sending her to school with shirts that had stains I simply could not get out, or shirts with very small holes in them.
I would always throw away shirts with large holes or very very terrible stains.
Eventually it became quiet consuming to put so much effort into geting every last stain out of her school clothes, and to replace brand new clothing she would destroy with in a week or a month of getting them.
I talked to some other parents, and they told me not to worry about it, kids are kids, kids get dirty. And none of her other schools or providers ever cared, she was always bathed, hair combed, nails trimmed etc.
It's not MY fault some schools choose to use un-washable paint/markers/clay and allow her to roll around in the dirt during recess.

I have kept all notes, and report card, and I have typed up the events which happened in my conference with the teacher, in which I was not alone, my dd's father was also there.
He too is a rational man and stayed calm but admitted to wanting to reach across the table and punch that woman during our meeting.
It was THAT bad.


Do I stay around and take the chance that she will continue this issue AGAIN and call CPS. While I get arrange another proper school?
Or do I do everything in secretsy, pull my dd out of there immediately, and never speak to them again and not worry about CPS.

[alegna]

I would find a different school (private if need-be) or homeschool for now. I would pull her from the school- IMMEDIATELY. I would NOT send a child that young away from home.

good luck!

-Angela

[Jojo F.]

Oh. my. gosh. That teacher is a witch!!!! I really could not imagine dealing with this. And the line about "teaching mom" about God and such, that's a bunch of bull. How dare a teacher impose her views. That's grounds for pulling her out right there.

It seems to me that she can not be reasoned with and is an unresonable person. She is not good for your daughter and is causing her internal conflicts and emotional distress.

As hard as it may be I would take her out and find a new school or class. Go to the principle and explain the situation and that you feel your daughter needs to be challanged for her to stay on task, etc.

Does your daughter say she likes/dislikes her teacher? Can you talk to her about the situation(lightly of course)? Would she like to move to a different class, or different school?

I'm not sure I really helped, but I so sympathize for you and your daughter. I really hope all of this works out and in a timely manner.

[Emmeline II]

I'd pull her out ASAP, just make sure you complete the paperwork for a transfer/homeschool (jic). The school could call CPS today and CPS could talk to your dd at school without parent consent or knowledge. I'd start looking for a lawyer too.

For those worried about CPS being called for not vaxing and other non-mainstream practices:

Child Abuse and Neglect Statues
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/state/index.cfm

Find a Lawyer referral under "Services"
http://www.falseallegation.org/index.shtml

Parents Guide to Dealing With CPS
http://www.familyrightsassociation.c...parents_guide/

Fighting Child Protective Services False Accusations
http://www.fightcps.com/

CPS Watch -- Legal Forms
http://web.archive.org/web/200306021...ms/default.asp

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by alegna

I would find a different school (private if need-be) or homeschool for now. I would pull her from the school- IMMEDIATELY. I would NOT send a child that young away from home.

good luck!

-Angela

:


Which province are you in?

Kathy

[captivatedlife]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

I'd pull her out ASAP, just make sure you complete the paperwork for a transfer/homeschool (jic). The school could call CPS today and CPS could talk to your dd at school without parent consent or knowledge. I'd start looking for a lawyer too.

They can only talk if you dd lets them. I would drill your dd on "I don't talk to strangers if my mom's not with me." They must call you after that and are not allowed to continue questioning.

good luck

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by Jojo F.

Oh. my. gosh. That teacher is a witch!!!!

totally OT: *please* be careful phrasing....some of us really are Witches, and it's a derogatory thing to say that way these days...gently enlightening; many people don't even think that Wiccan means Witch, and Wicca is a genuine religion.

i usually write the "b" word with a star or something in where the middle letters go; that way is completely understandable, or some people write out bee-otch now (however you'd spell it).

ok, rant over

how did it go today, blue ash? i called my ds's former teacher to find out what went on in his former school. he called me right back. turns out ds DID act out in that school; i guess he just handled it differently. seems he did a lot of the things New Teacher does, only with a calmer, firmer attitude. i get the idea that New Teacher really shows her anger and distress, and she calls me all the dang time. i'm sure ds knows that isn't going to do diddly i don't get him in trouble twice. unless it's very serious, which it never is. if he gets it in school, i'm not going to punish him at home, too. i may talk to him about it, but that's it.

so the counsellor is willing to GO TO THE SCHOOL and have a 3-way conference, how cool is that??? i hope it has some impact. she says that some of the things New Teacher expects are unreasonable, too high expectations. and she sent a pamphlet on ADHD kids to the school for her to read. as if the teacher is going to modify her classroom, but hopefully. have you heard of a 504 Plan? it's some kind of federal ace in the hole and it's law and they have to comply. i wonder how hard they'd make it on the kid, though, for having to comply with something they probably feel forced to do. ugh.

anyway. hope you're finding peace and some answers. i hope i do too!

pamela

[GalateaDunkel]

The teacher obviously has a deliberate plan to find some form of "child abuse" to pin on you and have your child removed from your home.

Your DD obviously needs out of that school right away, but pulling her may send up a red flag and won't keep the teacher from calling CPS anyway.

If I were you I would keep DD out of school Monday and move heaven and earth to find a lawyer. File papers for homeschooling that day. Show up in the principal's office first thing Tuesday morning with the lawyer, your dd's father, and if possible the new therapist. Seriously, your family is under attack. Don't pull your punches.

[kmeyrick]

Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel

The teacher obviously has a deliberate plan to find some form of "child abuse" to pin on you and have your child removed from your home.

It might not be deliberate, it could be paranoia. It COULD be what she's been trained to do, since schools are held responsible for not acting on any questionable situations. You need to get a lawyer BEFORE CPS knocks on your door. The other posters are right- we teachers are required by law to notify authorities immediately if we see something suspicious. She may have already called. Or, she could be just a loon. But I wouldn't play games here.

[Belleweather]

Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel

The teacher obviously has a deliberate plan to find some form of "child abuse" to pin on you and have your child removed from your home.

I don't know if it's deliberate, or even if it goes so far as having your daughter removed from your home, but it really does sound like this teacher has long ago made up her mind that there is something wrong with your daughter and that she's begin abused and is not going to change it... or even be open minded enough to evaluate any evidence that might lead her to think differently.

If pulling your daughter out effective immediately is an option, I'd do it without question.

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by kmeyrick

since schools are held responsible for not acting on any questionable situations.

just curious, how/in what way are schools held responsible? what consequenses are imposed if there is indeed a questionable situation and the school did not act? is this federal or by state?

thanks,
pamela

[BunnySlippers]

I would pull her.

Might I suggest also that instead of using baby names like 'potty' and 'down there' you use correct terminology with your daughter. Should she ever need to use the language, she will have it. Kind of an OT thing, but kinda not.

[stik]

You have ample evidence that this teacher is not meeting your child's needs wrt providing sufficiently challenging experiences in the classroom. She's said she thinks there is something "wrong" with your dd. She didn't say it in a constructive way either. I might say there was something "wrong" with a student in my class if I could tell they were trying very hard, but they were failing the class anyhow, or if I saw a student pulling the wings off of flies, or if a student regularly burst into tears for no apparent reason or seemed very fearful. But not because of "a look in [his, her or their] eyes." "A look" is not something that either a parent or an educator or anyone else working with a child can address. If she'd been able to say something concrete like, "Suzie appears to stare fixedly at the wall for a few seconds, then begins throwing furniture at other students," that would be a clear sign that something is wrong. But the vague and emotionally loaded statement this teacher made was inappropriate and unprofessional.

You have plenty of reasons to want your dd out of this classroom. I think you can use the teacher's statements as grounds. It's not too long since the statements were originally made. You can explain that the statements have concerned you more and more the more you thought about them. Talk with your dd's psychologist first for backup if she has one outside school, but if not, call the school and ask for a team meeting. Make this the central issue. Bring someone with you who's a little outside the situation to help you stay focused on your goal (another classroom with a different teacher so your dd has more structure, more challenge, and a more constructive relationship with her teacher).

The vague hints at abuse allegations are scary. Moving your dd out of this teacher's class is obviously one way to help protect yourself. But I wouldn't bring those up in the meeting - I don't think it will help.

[kmeyrick]

Originally Posted by mercyn

just curious, how/in what way are schools held responsible? what consequenses are imposed if there is indeed a questionable situation and the school did not act? is this federal or by state?

thanks,
pamela

We could be held on criminal negligence, depending on the state. However, these laws may become federal. If it came to light that there were suspicions that we had ignored, we could lose our jobs, certification, fines, etc. But if we accuse falsely, we aren't always protected from lawsuits. So we always put in disclaimers noting ONLY what we have observed, and let CPS do the rest. This is to prevent witch hunts, but teachers, guidance counselors, even the custodians are required by law to report anything we see or hear. The system is not perfect, so parents need to be cautious. Not litigious or paranoid, but cautious.

[Ruthla]

If it were my child, I'd pull her out immediately and HS her while researching other schools in the area. Maybe consider HSing long term if it was affordable.

[Maiasaura]

gotcha, kmyrick, thanks for clarifying.

OP, i think someone said this already, but i'm going to reiterate (or bring it up, just in case it hasn't)-- document, document, document!!! write down *everything*. every. little. thing. and the dates and times. every interaction, every thing the teacher has said, everything anyone else you talk to (psychologist, lawyer, principal) says. and only write the facts; keep your emotions and thoughts out of it. best advice my mama ever gave me!

pamela

[menudo]

Ds had a"teacher" in Headstart who didn't like me AT ALL. She told me so. So many red flags. Soon, I realized she was "coercing" DS. Basically "stranger Danger" turned around to be used against us. If we said "No" he would scream 'Stop that. Yo uare hurtign me." and crazy thigns. When calm he began telling us (often out of the blue) that she told him to say this and how bad we are. No lie. She threatened me with CPS. (Illegal for her to do-threaten us with it that is.) I did all the right things -meeting with everyone in tha tschool, taking son out and more. They convinced me she'd be away from him and to let him back. The day after he returned CPS was at my door!

Thankfully, the worker was aware of otehr issues at the school and adviced me to get DS out immediately. The school openly admitted they gave her the OK to call. The yhad lied and said DS "stopepd showing up" after I took him out. They said "all of our "private meetings" regarding this lady were kept from CPS. WTF? Yeah, to save themselves. They then said she was being fired. It really hurt our whole family. She too "fished" for stories from DS. DS being only 4 years old always had better versions of any story, like any 4yo. She told him to say he had bruises. Crazy, crazy stuff.

I had a lawyer but it was not worth the hell we'd go through to persue it further.

I say document everything and take her out NOW. But "transfer" her out officially for records sake.