What will the welfare office do....

[imbarefoot]

If I tell them (or they realize) that I'm pregnant....and find out that I'm UCing? I'm concerned that they will ask me for my doctors name and confirmation of pregnancy and all that, which at that point I'll have to tell them I don't have a doctor and that I"m homebirthing without medical care.

What do you think they will do? Report me to CPS? I'm nervous...I've avoided the office completely. I don't even plan to report this child to them to get more state assistance. What we get now is plenty.

[stormborn]

I'm paranoid, but I would not tell them about the up/uc part. IME most state orgs are heavily invested in prenatal care. Maybe you could go to the health dept for "proof" and then just not go back.

Congrats on your new pg.

[Kidzaplenty]

Well, if you are on assistance, you HAVE to report a birth. Any person, adult or child, that is living in the house has to be on the record. For BC purposes, you will need proof of pgcy and then proof of birth anyway, that is all they will need.

I was on food stamps and Medicaid when I was pg with one of my children. I had to provide proof of the pregnancy (easily accessible with a quick trip to the health department or a womans center, and all it required was for me to pee in a cup) and then eventually proof of birth, which was the BC. But it was not an option to stay on assistance and NOT report it, I could have lost all the assistance if I had not done so. And I never had them ask anything about the birth or medical care. The only question they usually asked was, "do you have a pedi?" or some such question, and I would just say not yet. If they asked about where the child was to be born, I would mention that the closest hospital was such and such. Never had a problem.

I would not suggest "hiding" the baby from them. Even if that is not your intent. It can come back to bite you in the butt later on. You do NOT have to tell them you are home birthing or UCing (and I would NOT tell them that, EVER).

If I remember right, one of the questions that is ALWAYS asked is "Is anyone in the household pregnant?" No way to talk around that.

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty

Well, if you are on assistance, you HAVE to report a birth. Any person, adult or child, that is living in the house has to be on the record. For BC purposes, you will need proof of pgcy and then proof of birth anyway, that is all they will need.

I was on food stamps and Medicaid when I was pg with one of my children. I had to provide proof of the pregnancy (easily accessible with a quick trip to the health department or a womans center, and all it required was for me to pee in a cup) and then eventually proof of birth, which was the BC. But it was not an option to stay on assistance and NOT report it, I could have lost all the assistance if I had not done so. And I never had them ask anything about the birth or medical care. The only question they usually asked was, "do you have a pedi?" or some such question, and I would just say not yet. If they asked about where the child was to be born, I would mention that the closest hospital was such and such. Never had a problem.

I would not suggest "hiding" the baby from them. Even if that is not your intent. It can come back to bite you in the butt later on. You do NOT have to tell them you are home birthing or UCing (and I would NOT tell them that, EVER).

Well we are not filing for a BC or SS card, so I'm not concerned about that. And we will no longer be on assistance once the baby comes. I think we will be losing it Feb 1st, because of our income going up.

I don't know...I just don't feel comfortable reporting my children to the government anymore. I don't feel comfortable getting them BCs or SS cards at this point, with where our government is at. I think things are getting more and more corrupt and my heart is telling me not to do those things. So the last thing I want to do is confirm my pregnancy and have that on file.

[imbarefoot]

And about the "is anyone in the house pregnant" they won't or haven't been asking me that because we've been on the assistance for about a year now. We rarely talk to them, only if we lose our card and need a new one and they never even ask us any questions. So I haven't even been put in that situation.

[MamaFranklin]

I have been on food stamps and medical/medicaid for pregnancy #3 and #4. I gave them proof of pregnancy and a birth certificate afterwards. They never asked for anything else. NOW WIC is another story!!!

Edited to add: I am UP/UCing this one too!

[angelpie545]

Yep, all you need is proof of pregnancy and then a birth certificate. About the WIC thing though..I was on WIC for years and they never asked anything except
how I gave birth, c-section or vaginal. They never required any proof either way.

[NoMariposa]

Originally Posted by imbarefoot

Well we are not filing for a BC or SS card, so I'm not concerned about that. And we will no longer be on assistance once the baby comes. I think we will be losing it Feb 1st, because of our income going up.

I don't know...I just don't feel comfortable reporting my children to the government anymore. I don't feel comfortable getting them BCs or SS cards at this point, with where our government is at. I think things are getting more and more corrupt and my heart is telling me not to do those things. So the last thing I want to do is confirm my pregnancy and have that on file.

I can't say I don't blame you, but I also can say you need documented proof that the baby is yours. Even if you do not get a SSN, you really should get a birth certificate for the child and a passport if you are so paranoid about the US volitility. And I would suggest getting a SSN unless you object for a certain religion.

Your SSN for the baby allows you to claim the child on income tax forms (although filing is optional, the employer takes out taxes to pay the gov, you don't have to claim some of it back if you don't want to, there would be lost money to you and your family by not filing in most cases when you earn at just above the welfare line).

The SSN also permits easier passage into adulthood b/c you need a SSN to work in the US. I am going to assume your increase income while it removes welfare assistance, it probably will still allow you to qualify for WIC. If you need the WIC assistance in the way of food for yourself during pregnancy or for your children, then the baby will need proof of existance to qualify you for bfing package or the baby for a formula package. That jar of PB goes a long way when you have to make it last or the bag of beans can feed a family for days in a soup. I'm just saying WIC isn't so bad and while I'm not a proponent of dairy, if my children tolerated it and it was a glass of milk or nothing b/c I was out of other food, that glass of milk would provide them with nourishment and they would not go to bed feeling hungry.

I'm not from the US, I do not claim US citizenship and I do not claim it for my kids, but they have BC from here and Passports from my country of origin. I jump through hoops to avoid the SSN issue, it is not easy and we are limited in many ways. If my children choose to stay here, then they will need a SSN to work. I hope they don't choose to live here. I'm not sure if we will be staying much longer w my dh's job.

If you are loosing benefits to welfare so soon, it would be plausalbe not to "report" that you are pregnant as some women do not know for many months into their pregnancies. While I hb w lay mws, I have had our trusted doc record my pregnancy w a urine test to sign off on seeing the baby to get a BC after since the mw is under the table so to speak.

Just b/c you document a pregnancy, does not mean to anyone that it resulted in a live birth, miscarriages happen and those are not necessarily reported by women that I know.

I would think about your children in terms of adults when it comes to BC and SSN. It is much easier to get a BC and number at birth than to apply for one later. Just b/c your child has a number does not mean you have to supply it to anyone. If you read Ina May, maybe you might remember the trouble they had getting BC for the children who were born on the way to TN and that was 30plus years ago. Patriot act has made that more difficult - but you can be a non-person still. My dh's uncle was not allowed to get a phone b/c he did not exist to the phone company, this uncle lived debt free, paid cash for his house, his car, everything, he had no Credit Score and therefore was unverifiable to the phone company to get a phone. I'm sure he has a checking account and I know he trades stocks, so he has his SSN out there, but he still just did not exist in the major computer finance systems.

It's just something to think about. My children go to PS and I'm not required to give their SSN, they look at us funny, but I know our rights.

Another thing, if your spouse or SO gets a job w health insurance, your health insurance company will want the SSN to identify the child for coverage. Having health coverage is important for catastrophic events unless you oppose to all medical care for religious reasons. Since my dh works for a foreign owned company our insurance is based outside the US but works here.

I think you might be reading too many internet conspiracy theories!:: It will keep you up at night and worry you to death. Whether or not they are true I will not speculate, however, I can say that if you have a faith based in Christianity, the worse must come before the return -- so, those of the Christian faith might it all and pray for the quick return.

[mrskennedy]

Originally Posted by imbarefoot

Well we are not filing for a BC or SS card, so I'm not concerned about that. And we will no longer be on assistance once the baby comes. I think we will be losing it Feb 1st, because of our income going up.

I don't know...I just don't feel comfortable reporting my children to the government anymore. I don't feel comfortable getting them BCs or SS cards at this point, with where our government is at. I think things are getting more and more corrupt and my heart is telling me not to do those things. So the last thing I want to do is confirm my pregnancy and have that on file.

Ok. And btw I totally admire you for that!
So can you not go back to the office, ever? Or would it be possible to take yourself off assistance?
No matter what happens, they can't make you register your child, even if they do know you're pg. They can't make you get a BC or SS card.
I hope you can work out what's best for you and that the system doesn't give you unnecessary stress!

[guest9921]

Originally Posted by angelpie545

Yep, all you need is proof of pregnancy and then a birth certificate. About the WIC thing though..I was on WIC for years and they never asked anything except
how I gave birth, c-section or vaginal. They never required any proof either way.

Why on earth would that be relevant?

[JesseMomme]

I've gone to social services while pregnant...and never told them much.

"who is your Dr?" "I haven't picked one out yet" or "Can't remember how to say the name - hard to pronounce" or "Geesh I forgot the name again!"

"What hospital is Dr. at then?" "I haven't decided on the hospital yet so we might not even be using said Dr. in the end"

Or, search for a list of care providers/obs that is compensated by medicaid and pick a name. I think I did that too. They are happy to have something to write down (if applicable) and then there is nothing more about it, IME.

During my two UP's where I had to go to social services for general medicaid for the older kids and for food stamps, I didn't run into any problems overall. The worst I could say was the one snotty sw who just could not believe I was 3/4 months pregnant and hadn't gotten "care" yet. Well, tough titty.

I didn't have any problems with WIC. In fact, I can't recall ever having a problem with WIC in that respect (their dumb iron level pokes that aren't accurate and asking me if I'm worried if my dd is "overweight" at the age of 2 : when she is far from it then and now is another story)

[Electra375]

Before OP decides for sure on SSN and BC please read some of the following

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10002.html

A Social Security number is important because you need it to get a job, collect Social Security benefits and receive some other government services. Many other businesses, such as banks and credit companies, also ask for your number.

Read from the source and not hear say.

http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/...tificates.html

The fact is, it's difficult (though not impossible) to live in this society without a birth certificate.

At a minimum you need a birth certificate to optain a legal US Passport. If you are so concerned w the way things are in the US, I would think you would want to have documents to leave quickly if necessary. If you do not have proper paperwork on your children, you can not travel to Mexico or Canada with them, let alone get on an airplane.

I think it is a huge disservice to the child to not at a min sign the birth certificate papers. It is NOT easy to go back at age 16 or 18 or 25 and get a birth certificate when one was never filed.

And possibly this might be of interest to you, I was only googling "living without birth certifcates" and this was at the bottom, so I can not say anything about the site's credibility.

http://www.undercoverpress.com/new_id.html

[nolonger]

Um....I've been here for 30 weeks and have yet to see ANY thread about foregoing a BC and/or SN that didn't devolve into this kind of discussion. It usually isn't very fruitful and tends to get otherwise valuable threads locked.

The OP's actual question had to do with her fear that she might be reported to CPS if the welfare office found out that she was pregnant and how to handle a UC while she was receiving benefits for her other children. I don't think that this is an unusual situation and I'm sure others would benefit from a discussion on how to handle this.

Can we try to get back on topic, please?

[moonfirefaery]

Without a birth certificate and/or SSN, you may have trouble getting your child health or life insurance, and later on, he will eventually have to get both if he wants a driver's liscense, credit, insurance, to go to college, to qualify for social security benefits one day, etc. You don't need an SSN to live here or work here, but I imagine paying taxes ould be easier with one, too. Personally I think health insurance is important to have, especially if you have kids.

To the OP, they could report you to CPS. CPS has no juridiction over unborn children, but they could make trouble for you if you have older kids. Then again, they may be cool about it. You can take the chance and tell them your plans, or you can say nothing. I find that stating you are planning a midwife-attended homebirth goes over much better, and if they want a name, say that you'd rather not disclose that information. They can't force it out of you.

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by noordinaryspider

The OP's actual question had to do with her fear that she might be reported to CPS if the welfare office found out that she was pregnant and how to handle a UC while she was receiving benefits for her other children. I don't think that this is an unusual situation and I'm sure others would benefit from a discussion on how to handle this.

Can we try to get back on topic, please?

She won't be UCing before Feb 1 so I don't see the big deal. Don't go to the office unless you absolutely have to and keep your mouth shut about UCing if you do have to go. It is only 2 months, it shouldn't be that hard.

[Kidzaplenty]

The biggest concern I would have about not reporting your pgcy and not getting a BC/SSN and UPing/UCing is not having any record that the baby is yours. It could lead to so many problems in the future. You need some documentation that you were pg and then something to prove the baby is yours. In this society, I can easily see it as a huge issue that would involve CPS and the court systems at some later date if there were ever a question.

Protect yourself and you child somehow by having proof. If nothing more than a positive pgcy test dated with an EDD and signed witness statements from people that knew you had the baby. It would also aide you in the future when the child wanted a BC/SSN.

[Mama Poot]

We get food stamps and the welfare office has never once asked me for the name of a doctor. I don't UC, just homebirth with my midwife. They only ask for a pregnancy verification form and you can get those at public clinics, planned parenthood, etc...The way things work here is if you want to be involved with their program Healthy Start, you have to go to all of the prenatal appointments with the doctor, etc etc, and later on you have to be up to date on your child's vaccinations. If you do not comply with their rules, they kick you off the program.

If something happens and you feel that you need to let them know you have the child in order to get more assistance, and they give you a hassle, there are religious exemptions that can be filed saying that you are opposed to seeking medical care. They absolutely cannot turn you down for personal beliefs.

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by NoMariposa

I can't say I don't blame you, but I also can say you need documented proof that the baby is yours. Even if you do not get a SSN, you really should get a birth certificate for the child and a passport if you are so paranoid about the US volitility. And I would suggest getting a SSN unless you object for a certain religion.

Your SSN for the baby allows you to claim the child on income tax forms (although filing is optional, the employer takes out taxes to pay the gov, you don't have to claim some of it back if you don't want to, there would be lost money to you and your family by not filing in most cases when you earn at just above the welfare line).

The SSN also permits easier passage into adulthood b/c you need a SSN to work in the US. I am going to assume your increase income while it removes welfare assistance, it probably will still allow you to qualify for WIC. If you need the WIC assistance in the way of food for yourself during pregnancy or for your children, then the baby will need proof of existance to qualify you for bfing package or the baby for a formula package. That jar of PB goes a long way when you have to make it last or the bag of beans can feed a family for days in a soup. I'm just saying WIC isn't so bad and while I'm not a proponent of dairy, if my children tolerated it and it was a glass of milk or nothing b/c I was out of other food, that glass of milk would provide them with nourishment and they would not go to bed feeling hungry.

I'm not from the US, I do not claim US citizenship and I do not claim it for my kids, but they have BC from here and Passports from my country of origin. I jump through hoops to avoid the SSN issue, it is not easy and we are limited in many ways. If my children choose to stay here, then they will need a SSN to work. I hope they don't choose to live here. I'm not sure if we will be staying much longer w my dh's job.

If you are loosing benefits to welfare so soon, it would be plausalbe not to "report" that you are pregnant as some women do not know for many months into their pregnancies. While I hb w lay mws, I have had our trusted doc record my pregnancy w a urine test to sign off on seeing the baby to get a BC after since the mw is under the table so to speak.

Just b/c you document a pregnancy, does not mean to anyone that it resulted in a live birth, miscarriages happen and those are not necessarily reported by women that I know.

I would think about your children in terms of adults when it comes to BC and SSN. It is much easier to get a BC and number at birth than to apply for one later. Just b/c your child has a number does not mean you have to supply it to anyone. If you read Ina May, maybe you might remember the trouble they had getting BC for the children who were born on the way to TN and that was 30plus years ago. Patriot act has made that more difficult - but you can be a non-person still. My dh's uncle was not allowed to get a phone b/c he did not exist to the phone company, this uncle lived debt free, paid cash for his house, his car, everything, he had no Credit Score and therefore was unverifiable to the phone company to get a phone. I'm sure he has a checking account and I know he trades stocks, so he has his SSN out there, but he still just did not exist in the major computer finance systems.

It's just something to think about. My children go to PS and I'm not required to give their SSN, they look at us funny, but I know our rights.

Another thing, if your spouse or SO gets a job w health insurance, your health insurance company will want the SSN to identify the child for coverage. Having health coverage is important for catastrophic events unless you oppose to all medical care for religious reasons. Since my dh works for a foreign owned company our insurance is based outside the US but works here.

I think you might be reading too many internet conspiracy theories!:: It will keep you up at night and worry you to death. Whether or not they are true I will not speculate, however, I can say that if you have a faith based in Christianity, the worse must come before the return -- so, those of the Christian faith might it all and pray for the quick return.

Thanks for your lengthly response!

I won't be filing for a SSC, BC or a passport. We just don't feel comfortable with it. I will however be taking my dd to our doc within a few days of birth so according to the laws here I know I will safely be able to get a BC if need be.

I am however a Christian and I am praying for that quick return! Something in my heart tells me that my oldest dd won't get to the age of needing a SSC to work here in the US. And if she does, I will employ her within my midwife business

About those consipiracy theories...I find that most of them aren't actually theories but truths! Of course some seem to be theories and I don't believe them. But many of them I have thoroughly researched and definitely think they are right now. They don't keep me up at night though, and that's only because of my faith!

Oh and I forgot to add that we don't do WIC because of their constant hounding over my daughter being small. Also, we have a way of getting around the stupid unconstitutional income tax bs, so I'm not worried about the SSC thing as far as that goes.

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by mrskennedy

Ok. And btw I totally admire you for that!
So can you not go back to the office, ever? Or would it be possible to take yourself off assistance?
No matter what happens, they can't make you register your child, even if they do know you're pg. They can't make you get a BC or SS card.
I hope you can work out what's best for you and that the system doesn't give you unnecessary stress!

Thank you for understanding and supporting me! I just don't plan to go in there while pregnant or with my baby afterwards if not necessary. I don't think I will have to since I believe we are loosing it here soon. Either way, I'm glad that can't make me document it even if they do find out!

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by noordinaryspider

Um....I've been here for 30 weeks and have yet to see ANY thread about foregoing a BC and/or SN that didn't devolve into this kind of discussion. It usually isn't very fruitful and tends to get otherwise valuable threads locked.

The OP's actual question had to do with her fear that she might be reported to CPS if the welfare office found out that she was pregnant and how to handle a UC while she was receiving benefits for her other children. I don't think that this is an unusual situation and I'm sure others would benefit from a discussion on how to handle this.

Can we try to get back on topic, please?

Thank you! I have thoroughly researched the risks and benefits of not obtaining a SSC and BC, contrary to what others may think! :