Queer TTC December 2007 - Page 5

[JenInMpls]

I decided against it. Thanks for your fast thoughts frog and angela. Angela: I don't temp because it never was useful to me. I temped at first and and it just made me crazy and i never had an established pattern or baseline, and then when the dr looked at the chart and said "well what's going on here?" I decided that it wasn't worth my time.

kjm: my sis is 7.5 years older than me and while I understand the raising two only children viewpoint because i have had a little of that experience too with my sis, I want to also let you know that my sister is especially important to me now as an adult and while we never played with each other, etc as kids, she really played an important big sister role in my life - taking me to concerts, letting me come stay at her apt in college, etc. So if that's how it works out for you, please believe that your kids will still benefit from having each other as siblings even if they aren't super-close in age.

[BurtsGirl]

Keely, thank you for not ignoring my post and for answering with your own bare, emotional thoughts. As I was writing it, I knew I was putting myself out there, something I probably will not do again. Sometimes validation of our feelings is all we really need. Thanks for filling that need when it looked like no one else would. Hugs to you, sister. Hang tight. If you ever need to talk or share, feel free to PM me and I'll send you my email address.

On another note my HSG went good and I didn't have a vagal response.

[JenInMpls]

Originally Posted by BurtsGirl

Sometimes I wonder what drives us to go to the lengths we go to. Is it just implanted in our dna the desire to reproduce or is it cultural influences as we were growing up? So I have to ask, and I know this is very personal and you don't have to answer but, why do you want a child?

Rachel, I want to respond and i promise I'm not doing it just to get my share of your response to keely

The reason why we have children? Love. We have love to give and want to share it. To your child you can completely, shamelessly and without hesitation give your love. They want it, need it and deserve it. They drink it up and it makes them thrive.

For me it also was because I enjoy children. Before becoming a mama, I was an elementary school teacher. I think children are fun. I think babies are delightful. I enjoy watching this little person unfold in his development. I love seeing the world anew through my son's eyes. I see a lot of things now that I didn't see before because I was just going too fast. My son has made me stop to look at bugs and flowers and dirt and rocks. Through him we've met our neighbors. He makes me laugh with the ridiculous things he says, and we are at our rawest with each other - both positively and negatively.

I think that children bring great delight to us, force us to lighten up, reprioritize and stop focusing on ourselves, and make us do the hardest and most satisfying work we've ever done.

If you need a good child-induced laugh, check out this entry on my blog. I hope it makes you smile xo jen

[AngelaM]

Originally Posted by BurtsGirl

Keely, thank you for not ignoring my post and for answering with your own bare, emotional thoughts. As I was writing it, I knew I was putting myself out there, something I probably will not do again. Sometimes validation of our feelings is all we really need. Thanks for filling that need when it looked like no one else would. Hugs to you, sister. Hang tight. If you ever need to talk or share, feel free to PM me and I'll send you my email address.

On another note my HSG went good and I didn't have a vagal response.

Rachel,

I just wanted you to know that I was really moved by your post. I think that it takes a lot to put yourself out there that way, and write about the ways in which this process makes us doubt ourselves constantly.

I didn't answer right away for two reasons. One is that I sort of feel like I'm hijacking too much air time on the TTC thread right now, and I don't want to take up too much space, create less of a forum for those who are indeed here trying to conceive.

The second reason is far more complicated, and has to do with how ambivalent I feel about my own pregnancy right now. As you know, I tried very hard to get pregnant, and I still feel sort of shell-shocked about the fact that my emotional response, rather than overwhelming joy, has been intermittent excitement overshadowed by a lot of sadness and fear.

I wrote on here that I was planning to stop ttc in January if I didn't get pregnant by then. But what I didn't write is that some part of me secretly sort of hoped that I wouldn't get pregnant. There are so many ways in which NOT having a child right now started to seem so appealing - I could keep traveling, not be stressed about money, and most importantly, could see what happened in my relationship with my girlfriend without the stress of an impending baby.

Honestly, I'm still not sure that I should have kept on ttc. I have days when I fear that I've made the biggest mistake of my life. Mostly, I chalk that up to progesterone-induced mood swings. But the truth is, my life is about to change drastically, and I am terrified.

I know that there are a million reasons about why I want to be a parent. I am so excited about bringing a new life into the world, seeing things with my child's sense of wonder. I am excited about the possibilities of creating new family, new community, new forms of love. And I know that I'm going to be a great parent, and that I'm going to love doing it, and love my kid, and that this isn't ultimately a decision that I'm going to regret.

But, it has been a really hard and scary one to make. So please don't ever beat yourself up for your own ambivalence, or fears. I read a really nice quote by James Baldwin, one of my favorite authors, tonight. Coming across it at this particular moment was really meaningful to me, and so, I share it here with you:

There is never time in the future in which we will work out our salvation. The challenge is in the moment; the time is always now.

I'm really sorry if you felt like this wasn't a safe place to share your feelings. I hope you know how much I respect your willingness to share the details of your journey, and how much it means to me to have this community of strong, loving, queer women as part of my support network.

xo
angela

[megincl]

Hi Folks,

Been mostly lurking as we're on a break again (ugh) and I don't have much to write about us and thinking too much about the whole process is hard when we're not actively engaged in it.

But Rachel, I've been thinking a lot about your post. First off, I'm glad the dye test went well and there was no vagal response. Phew!

In terms of why I wanted children/a child, it is so hard to say all of the reasons, especially now that the amazing Quinn has been in my life for 4.5 years. I know, though, that having a child for me is a way of touching the world, making it a better place, knowing there's a soul out there walking around who I've had a hand in shaping, and who I truly help will make a valuable impact out there someday. I also think that growing a strong generation of children of queer parents is very important (not that I wanted a kid just to prove something to the world, if it sounds that way). It also has just always been something that I knew would be part of my life. In such a way that I didn't question it. Just waited for the time to be right.

I must admit that there was a long while where I only wanted one child. Then I came around to wanting two, like Katie. And as this round of TTC drags on past 1.5 years soon, I've questioned many many times whether two is really the way to go. There are so many reasons why it would be easier to stick with one. He's a good one, afterall! But then I guess I think things would be incomplete somehow, and all this time waiting for the next little one to come along will, I know, pale in comparison to the fullness of life when he/she arrives. Or at least that's what I know to be true on my rational days....

But thanks for asking. It's been a good little inquiry to carry around with me this last day or so.

be well all,
megin

[JenInMpls]

Jo (my wife) wanted only one child - she is an only child and feels that she was afforded many more opportunities that she would not have otherwise had if there had been another kid in their family - but having a sibling is so important to me that I guess I convinced her that we could, in fact, handle two kids. It's not that I necessarily want the experience of being pregnant and giving birth again - although I wouldn't mind getting that great birth experience this time around that totally escaped me last time - but that I feel it's important to T to have a little brother or sister.

[erthe_mama]

Yes, a child is generally afforded more of certain types of opportunities being an only child, but children with siblings are offered more emotional & relationship opportunities (did that come out right?), and, as far as studies are concerned, tend to be more socially intelligent. Which is part of why I want to ttc a second child. However, even if that doesn't work out for me, I'll be moving in with a good friend who has a baby and 2 yr old. They'll be great for "siblings" as far as I'm concerned.

[pranava]

When I was 22 (8 years ago), I had a dream about walking through my local mall. A little girl, about 7 years old was a short distance behind me and looking through a store window. She came running after me, caught my hand, looked up at me, and said "Mom?" as if she were about to ask a serious question. Then I woke up. The whole dream lasted maybe 30 seconds, but when I woke I felt more content than I ever had before or have since. I had the immediate thought "Oh, that's what is supposed to happen." Ever since then, I've been waiting for the right time to have that soul enter my life. Now that I'm ready, I hope that she(or he if that's the form the soul chooses to take) is ready too. I think I was meant to be the mother to that child. It wasn't just a dream, it was a communication, an awakening.

BurtsGirl - thanks for asking this question. Just by writing out the answer I have calmed all my indicision about continuing. I have, every month, questioned my ability to be disappointed again, but I won't anymore. It is supposed to happen.

[kk_davey]

Originally Posted by BurtsGirl

Sometimes I wonder what drives us to go to the lengths we go to. Is it just implanted in our dna the desire to reproduce or is it cultural influences as we were growing up? So I have to ask, and I know this is very personal and you don't have to answer but, why do you want a child?

I like these posts the best! I think they encourage the sort of discussion from which you actually learn things from each other. Non-factual ttc things.

I think the desire to reproduce is both nature and nurture. You can't escape the animal in you that wants to breed, that wants a family of yr own creation, etc etc (not that everyone wants to, but if you got the maternal instinct you can't escape it, I think). But I also think your real-world experience would have an impact. I loved having 3 siblings, and so I really want 4 children. I loved being a part of a family, and so I really want to create one. I think if you'd had bad experiences you might respond differently.

Re why I want children, there's no single answer of course, but there's some shining points. Firstly I've always had a strong maternal instinct. I can't change or escape that. To me no amount of travelling or rock-climbing or music listening or work promotions or anything, can add up to the love you get from your family, and the bond you have with your children. If I think of myself as an older woman with no children, it makes me really sad. I just couldn't be fulfilled. I'd always feel like something was missing.

Another big factor for me is that I really want to increase the number of emotionally-educated, critical thinking, open-minded people in the world. I used to think I couldn't bring a child in to this world, even though I really wanted to. It really haunted me - how to deal with the dilemma of wanting children but hating the current world environment. Then I realised that if all the people who thought like me didn't have children, then we'd let the bastards win. And we certainly can't have that!

[frog]

Burt'sGirl, I'm still thinking about your question. Sometimes it takes me a while to find the words and sometimes I never do, but I never ignore posts in this thread. I'm sorry if it seems like I do.

[astraphell]

Originally Posted by kk_davey

Another big factor for me is that I really want to increase the number of emotionally-educated, critical thinking, open-minded people in the world. I used to think I couldn't bring a child in to this world, even though I really wanted to. It really haunted me - how to deal with the dilemma of wanting children but hating the current world environment. Then I realised that if all the people who thought like me didn't have children, then we'd let the bastards win. And we certainly can't have that!

This is a central theme of our discussions about why we want to have children, and whether or not we should. My partner Angela is a social worker and sees a lot of pain and injustice out there. We struggle with whether we should be bringing a child into the world when there are so many in need of good, loving homes. We've talked seriously about becoming foster parents as well, and will probably do that in the future.

But I can't deny this strong urge within me that just needs to be pregnant and have a child of my own. I've wondered if it is purely selfish, felt guilty about wanting to bring a child into this crazy world, been scared that we're automatically making our child's life harder than others because of the nature of our relationship. Then I realized that I need to own my feelings and not let the guilt and fear get to me.

I struggle every day trying to tell myself that my wants are valid, and I deserve this as much as anyone else. And we will be great parents! Like kk said, we're going to bring up the most loving, open-minded, educated, free-thinking child, who can grow up to fight the system and make change!

[BurtsGirl]

Warning, this is a long one.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I might have come off a little harsh in my last post and for that, I apologize. I’ve really enjoyed hearing all of your reasons for wanting a child. It’s interesting how some are similar and some are very different.

Yesterday went so much better than I expected. It was just like BBM said, uncomfortable but not unbearably painful. I think I was just so scared about the response I had to the insem and that fear was also contributing to my questioning of why I’m doing this. I love my RE. After the procedure I asked him a ton of questions. He reassured me that everything looked great and that I should be able to conceive. Basically, what I heard was “your normal, your body is not against you, and you will get pregnant just be patient.” I asked if we needed to do two insems per cycle, he saw no reason to at this point. I ask if we needed to use two vials, he said my donors numbers looked good enough that he wouldn’t recommend it, of course he also said it was up to me and they would comply with whatever I felt I needed/wanted to do. Overall it was incredibly reassuring. I’ve only been trying four months which really isn’t that long. I suppose because we took a year to get our “house” in order I always figured when we were ready I would just get pregnant. Guess it doesn’t work that way.

Last night I felt so great and all the fear and doubt had left. So now maybe I can answer my own question. I want a child because I want to share my life with another person. To give and share the great, amazing love that DW and I have. I want to feel life move within me. I want to see everything anew and through a different pair of eyes. I want to feel the joy of creating, birthing, and molding a new life with the standards, morals, and ideals that DW and I share. I want to experience what so many women for millions of years have experienced; to feel the primal connection to our ancestors. I want someone to call me mom. I want to be involved at my kid’s schools, make crafts, hang handmade ornaments on our tree, wash dirty faces, play in the rain, bake cookies after a flour fight, hear giggles, and feel the smooth warm skin of my child first thing in the morning. I want to create the childhood I never had because I think I can do better than they did. I want to build the kind of family I wish I always had. I want to have large holiday and family meals with my children and their children. I want to devote my time, emotions, energy, and money into the most rewarding and toughest job I’ll ever have. I want to leave the world most my precious treasures. So that’s some of the reasons I want a child

As for siblings, we are planning for two. DW was an only child and she said it was very lonely, she longed for a sibling. I had a sister and wouldn’t trade that experience for the world. We are extremely close now although we fought like cats through our teen-years, but we were sharing a bedroom! With that said, we are playing it by ear and we’ll see how the first one goes before continuing.

What are everyone’s thoughts on sibling spacing?

[pranava]

Originally Posted by BurtsGirl

I want to have large holiday and family meals with my children and their children.

What are everyone’s thoughts on sibling spacing?

I too imagine myself as the matriarch of a large, noisy, and loving family gathered for Christmas and summertime reunions. I see my Grandmother as this now, and she is so very happy surrounded by her large family.

We've always talked about having 2 kids, but I can really see myself with 3 or 4. That many sounds crazy to some people, but I have 9 animals in a 1200sq ft house, and it never seems crowded. I'm sure I would feel the same about having many kids.

I think I would like 3 or 4 years between kids. I saw a mom with a 2 year old, and a newborn in a store once. The toddler was whiny, tired, and wanted to be picked up. The mom told him that she could not hold the baby, groceries, and him at the same time. He would have to be a big boy and keep walking. Granted, she should have gotten a cart, but that's what made me want my little one's to be a bit older before having another.

[Hopingforbaby]

PG with Sperm in Test Yolk Buffer?

Thanks, Pranava, for directing me to this thread.

I'm posting here the same thing that I just posted on "Lesbian Mums TTC...." Sorry if anyone sees it twice.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all. My partner and I just started TTC in November, but we inseminated too early. We are using a known donor who is shipping sperm to us with the Biotranz kit. I am eager to hear about others who have conceived using sperm that was "refrigerated" for shipment after being mixed with test yolk buffer. Also, if anyone knows of other alternatives for shipping fresh sperm, I'd love to know about them.

Thanks so much.

[starling&diesel]

To multiply or not to multiply?

As a queer who's known of my infertility since I was sixteen, I went from being the kid who wanted to be a midwife with countless babies in tow to hoping and praying I might manage to acquire one, some how, some way, some day.

We're waiting to implant donated embryos, two at a time (by law here in Canada), so if we get pregnant at all, it might be twins. Or, if we get pregnant the first time, there might be embryos still hanging out, waiting in the deep freeze, depending on how many survive the initial thaw.

To be honest, we'd prefer to parent one child. I have three brothers and am estranged from them all after a childhood of nothing but bullying and torture at their hands. My partner has a sister who she adores, but is also agreeable to having one. Both of us have decided one child is our first choice, two is our parenting capabilities max.

Would we implant again if there were more potentials chilling their wee little heels in the freezer? Yes. Without a doubt. Despite my struggles with my siblings, I do see other successful relationships between sibs.

Our family, like so many queers, is chosen and vast and varied and full of love. If we get pregnant from these embryos, our child will have two full genetic siblings (born to dyke friends of ours), so I guess no matter what, the sproglet won't be alone.

[osker]

great question

Thanks for the great question that keeps us focused on the positive!

For us, we've been talking about kids for ten years and have agreed on four. It seems like a lot to some people, but we've been nannies for those ten years and have upwards of eight kids roaming around with us at times. Four seems just right. I grew up with three of us, Heather grew up with five, and somehow we both decided four would be right.
As for spacing, our absolute dream would be 18-24 months apart, with a single, then twins, then a single. This has been our dream for almost those whole ten years now! When we first started working as nannies she had two kids, a 4yo and a 2yo. I had a 2yo and a newborn. It was wonderful. We got them together for playdates almost every day and that spacing and number just got to feeling right. Ever since then that's what we've wanted. To get there, our goal would be for her to carry, then for both of us to be pregnant at the same time, and then for me to carry...

But we've got to get one little one to start the ball rolling!!

[Twylightdove]

I can't address the question of why I want a child. After crossing the year mark of ttc I've been feeling just a little too fragile to open up that emotional tangle. Especially since I want to be pregnant but my partner doesn't really care where the kid comes from. Jake has stayed very supportive and actively involved in ttc but isn't as invested in getting a kid from my womb as I am. He wants it only because I want it so badly.

As for sibs, I always secretly dreamed of a large family but my politics prevent that. I compensate with a tight knit community. We are still unsure if there will be a second addition to our family. We will only birth one (if we can manage to do even that) so a second child would come from adoption, most likely a foster to adopt program. (Unless twins result which is unlikely at this point.) Jake is an only child due to his parent's fertility problems. He said he loved being an only child. But he was sickly as a kid and needed all that extra attention. I have a brother (who is also gay!) but I'm seven years older so it was more like being an only child with a permanent babysitting gig. If we did go for a second kid through adoption then we would wait until our first kid was five or six.

[snoopy13]

From Waiting to Know to Waiting to O...

well, it was my first try and this is my first disappointment, as of this morning, but I knew it was coming after my exciting symptoms went away and temps started dropping... but happy to be able to try again this month... JD

[kjm]

Snoop so sorry!! Though we are well versed in the odds we all secretly think that our first insem may be our last---Welcome to the roller coaster baby!! You are in great company!!! The sadness is as important as the courage to stand up and give it another go next month. Take good care of yourself.

[JenInMpls]

My goal was 3 years apart with spacing. That's not going to happen since T is already 3 but the fact that we actually came to a place of having two instead of just one makes that moot to me. I thought 3 years because then you've got a kid then who can help you out and is not as much a baby themselves. I don't know if that's even true or not but I do know that T loves his friends' little siblings so I think he'll be a great big brother. I think that 4 years will work nicely since T will be in pre-k 2 days a week starting in fall which gives him some special time with peers where he won't be competing for my attention.

Draya what you said about social intelligence is - in my book - SPOT on. Jo still doesn't quite know how to pull her weight in some areas and I think if she had had a sibling that she would have more of that social aptitude. She also didn't have a lot of playmates as a little kid and I wonder sometimes if that had something to do with it too...