Why is it always either gay or straight?

[minkajane]

I figured this would be the best place to post this little rant. I'm sick of hearing about someone being described as "turning gay" after being in opposite-sex relationships, then "turning back straight" if they are in an opposite-sex relationship after being in a same-sex relationship. Take, for example, the TV show Nip/Tuck. Julia is currently in a relationship with a woman. She admitted to her ex-husband that she had always fantasized about women. Everyone is now talking about her turning gay.

What happened to being bi? Why is it always either one or the other? Nip/Tuck actually has a bisexual character on the show, but when it comes to actual relationships and not just random humping, it's "turning gay."

I am bisexual and I don't feel like I really fit in either culture, gay or straight. I've never been in a real relationship with a woman, so according to the gay community, I'm straight. But I have had crushes and sexual experiences with women, so to the straight community, I'm as good as gay. I feel like I can't truly be a part of the gay community because I'm in a committed relationship with a man.

I know that the community is usually described as being GLBTQ, but it feels like it just ends up being GL. There's always talk about gay rights and gay pride, but there's rarely talk of bisexual pride or transgender rights. KWIM?

I hope this whole thought process makes sense to someone besides me. Just thought I'd get some feedback on my feelings.

[Maluhia]

I hear you sister!

The thing is that as humans we categorize - it's how we relate to other animals in our species - but we can as humans with our minds focus on the individual and not the current sexual action. I mean just cause my sex life this week is about X position does it mean that I will always be an X and not a Y girl - kwim?

Eh, come join the BiParents thread if you get a chance - we talk about these issues on and off between friendly day-to-day banter!

[bjorker]

I don't have any profound things to say, I just wanted to say that I totally understand what you're saying, and have experienced this myself. I wish there wasn't an immediate assumption that a person is either one or the other. I feel like I'm misrepresenting myself all of the time. I think I often end up confusing people, because they see or hear me saying or doing things that would normally give off the "gay" flag, except that they know I have a male partner and a young daughter. I don't owe anybody any explanation, and usually it would be awkward and out-of-place to give one, but then that too just makes things awkward. For the most part, I just say and do whatever I feel like, but it would make it easier if more people understood that it's not always one or the other. In fact, I think it makes a lot more sense to assume that most people are somewhere in between, but I guess I'm fairly alone in that. I assume it's because most people seem to think that they themselves are one or the other. Which also doesn't make sense to me, but it's not like I hold anything against being gay or straight. Now if only more gay and straight people felt the same about bisexuals, pansexuals, or whatever label you want to use that falls somewhere in between.... (not that I'm assuming that ALL of them do... far from it... but that prejudice and such definitely exists)

I don't know if I'm making any sense, but I did my best to explain. I'm mostly just ramblings off my thoughts, here.

Oh! I've noticed that a lot in the media, as well. I don't know how many movies I've seen where so-n-so is with a man, and then suddenly she's in love with a girl, and therefore she's a lesbian. Or something to that affect, anyway. WTH? And of course it's always one or the other-- never bisexual, never poly, she has to choose one. Whatever. I mean, I know not everyone in this situation is bi, and not everyone is poly, or wants to be poly. Lots of people live "the straight life" and then later on figure out or acknowledge that they are gay. But in tv and the movies, that middle ground never seems to get acknowledged as even a possibility. That always frustrates me.

And for that, I recommend the movie Shortbus. Great movie.

Oh dear, excuse my late-night ramblings.

[Lissacamille]

I know what you mean. I went to craigslist discussion forums and was immediately attacked because I am happily married to a man. OMG, you have a MAN in your life? Sheesh, I never thought that I would be subjected to so much abuse. I am also bisexual and have a g/f although it is not sexual, we are both bisexual and it really helps to be with someone who knows what you are going through.
Sistah, you are in the right place because here everyone is very nurturing and loving, unlike other forums where you can be ripped to shreds.
Welcome as you are!

[majikfaerie]

why is it always gay or straight?

coz the world is just messed up.

perhaps something to do with the mainstream's comfort levels. Mr X is straight, and he's fine with that. Ms Z is a lesbian. So far so good. the two can be friends, no problem. But along comes Ms Y who is bi. It's an uncomfortable situation for both X and Y. For Mr X, if he sleeps with Ms Y, it might challenge his very comfortable place firmly on the straight side of the fence. Likewise Ms Z. She's a "real" lesbian, and association with Ms Y might 'out' her as a splitter. because of society's idea that straights and gays keep to themselves (sexually), and therefor bis should too.

It all comes down to the image a lot of society has that being Bi is just something one does when sleeping around. Once you get into a relationship with either gender, that plonks you firmly into one camp or the other.

Not to mention that Gays and Lesbians and Bisexuals and Transgender and any other flavours of "queer" are NOT the same group. Honestly, it makes me : to think about it. Of course, it comes under the umbrella of "not straight" or "freedom to be who you are", though technically, under the latter, those who are naturally straight would fit in too.

come on over to the bi-thread

[lexbeach]

I am a lesbian married to a bisexual woman, so this is something that I do think about. My wife is bi, but she also identifies as "gay," "dyke," and "queer." I don't feel like any of those words exclude bisexual women. She doesn't exactly identify as a "lesbian." But regardless of how she chooses to identify herself, she is living as a lesbian. We are in a monogamous lesbian relationship. We're legally married, we have three kids, and we're a two-mom family. She's attracted to men, but it's not like it impacts our life in any significant way. She doesn't feel like she needs to talk about being bisexual or like it makes her feel different or anything . . . The majority of our lesbian friends have occasional attractions for men, or have had past relationships with men, or both. My wife doesn't feel like she stands due to her bisexuality.

I think maybe the difference is that when you're living in a gay relationship, you are actively living the life of an oppressed group of people. You are constantly having to correct and educate people everywhere you go--even when you live in a hip lesbian-full place like we do. You stand out. Your extended families have to overcome a lot of stuff. It's a pretty big deal. Whereas, being bisexual but living in a heterosexual relationship, you appear to be straight. You fit in. Everyone understands and values your relationship. Having babies is pretty straight forward. Getting married is legal in every state. Your extended family thinks you're pretty normal. It is a TOTALLY different experience from living in a homosexual relationship, even if you've had homosexual relationships in the past or you're attracted to people of both sexes or whatever.

While we were in college, a huge percentage (like 97% at least) of our friends were all in relationships with women--many of them long-term and serious relationships. I don't think anyone really felt the need to label themselves . . . it was kind of assumed that everyone was at least bisexual if not totally gay . . . we were all "queer," and there was no talk of bisexuality or dating men (we were at a women's college). If you were asking about someone you didn't know well and you wanted to know if she was queer or not, you'd ask, "does she like girls?" or "is she gay?" and the two questions really meant the same thing (and the answer was almost always, "yes"). After graduation, the vast majority of our friends gradually started dating men and eventually marrying men. So in college our friends were pretty much "gay." And now, I guess you'd say that they're "bisexual," though some of them now identify as "straight." Thus, I think my understanding of there being no "middle ground" is that I guess the labels (gay, lesbian, bisexual, queer, dyke, etc.) have never meant that much to me. It's the relationship that seems significant.

All that said, I know that some of our aforementioned friends who are now married to men, do feel a sadness about not being recognized as "queer" anymore. I know one friend in particular who pretty much always dated women before meeting her now husband, and she says that she misses being seen as a dyke by other dykes on the street. There is something special about being a part of a minority in that way--giving each other knowing smiles as you walk past each other, etc.

The truth is that we don't really fit into the lesbian community these days. As young moms we don't find that we mesh well at all with most of the other lesbian moms (who are typically much older than us), and we don't fit in with the other younger lesbians because we're moms. We miss our big gay crowd of friends from college who have now "turned" straight ( ). I have an easier time blending in with straight folks (who are young moms) than dw does. She'd rather hang out with lesbians who don't have kids than hang out with straight folks who do have kids. But for me the mama bond is the strongest bond of them all.

Lex

[Maluhia]

Originally Posted by lexbeach

I think maybe the difference is that when you're living in a gay relationship, you are actively living the life of an oppressed group of people. You are constantly having to correct and educate people everywhere you go--even when you live in a hip lesbian-full place like we do. You stand out. Your extended families have to overcome a lot of stuff. It's a pretty big deal. Whereas, being bisexual but living in a heterosexual relationship, you appear to be straight. You fit in. Everyone understands and values your relationship. Having babies is pretty straight forward. Getting married is legal in every state. Your extended family thinks you're pretty normal.

Lex

Great and true point Lex. I do totally see how easily DP and I are accepted vs. the ongoing "discussion" my cousin has to have when he introduces his partner, dates someone new, etc. and I feel for him knowing that he's having to do all this "work" within an accepting open extended family but even then, it's work and that sucks.

[heket]

Originally Posted by minkajane

I know that the community is usually described as being GLBTQ, but it feels like it just ends up being GL. There's always talk about gay rights and gay pride, but there's rarely talk of bisexual pride or transgender rights. KWIM?

I've felt like this for SOOO long now...

There's more I want to say, but I can't seem to formulate my thoughts. If I can figure out what wants to come out, I'll be back.

And someone else mentioned it, but just in case, come hang out at the Bi-Parents Thread.

[frog]

Honestly, I think it comes down to "straight" or "not straight" and "gay" is just short-hand for the latter. As long as het is the default assumption, there will be one other box opposite it.

[MujerMamaMismo]

Originally Posted by frog

Honestly, I think it comes down to "straight" or "not straight" and "gay" is just short-hand for the latter. As long as het is the default assumption, there will be one other box opposite it.

All praise Frog, for she knows what's goin' on! I completely agree.

[amymarie]

well not really sure what i wanna add here but that i enjoyed reading all your thoughts on this subject.....i always felt bisexual since i was atrracted to boys and girls but never actually had an intimate encounter with a woman so i never openly referred to myself as bi.....and now i have a partner and we appear to be a normal hetero couple.....my partner is a ftm so we are not as we appear....and although i like having our own special secret and its fun that no one can tell he was once a girl i sometimes wish everyone knew i wasn't straight.....

[matchterr]

Originally Posted by lexbeach

The truth is that we don't really fit into the lesbian community these days. As young moms we don't find that we mesh well at all with most of the other lesbian moms (who are typically much older than us), and we don't fit in with the other younger lesbians because we're moms. We miss our big gay crowd of friends from college who have now "turned" straight ( ). I have an easier time blending in with straight folks (who are young moms) than dw does. She'd rather hang out with lesbians who don't have kids than hang out with straight folks who do have kids. But for me the mama bond is the strongest bond of them all.

Lex

I can completely relate to this... me and DW don't feel we fit anymore either... and what makes it all that much harder is we just moved here and trying to make friends that we can relate with is proving to be harder than anticipated. We are 26 and 27 wanting a kid... most people's eye bug out of their head when we tell them that. And we feel too young to hang out with the lesbians who are in the same place in life as we are. Not quite sure how to fix this problem. Oh well... bring on the babies!!!


....and although i like having our own special secret and its fun that no one can tell he was once a girl i sometimes wish everyone knew i wasn't straight....

You know... and now we know

[lexbeach]

Originally Posted by matchterr

I can completely relate to this... me and DW don't feel we fit anymore either... and what makes it all that much harder is we just moved here and trying to make friends that we can relate with is proving to be harder than anticipated. We are 26 and 27 wanting a kid... most people's eye bug out of their head when we tell them that. And we feel too young to hang out with the lesbians who are in the same place in life as we are. Not quite sure how to fix this problem. Oh well... bring on the babies!!!

Yes. Dw and I were 25 and 22 when our twins were born. People don't understand when younger lesbians want to have kids. I don't get it. I think if we had been straight, the reactions in regards to our age would have been totally different. Maybe when you're gay you have to be together longer before you get pregnant to prove that you're really going to stay together (just thinking about the stereotype that gay relationships don't last very long)? We had been together for 3.5 years when I got pregnant, which seems like a decent amount of time to me (my straight sister and straight SIL were both with their husbands less than 2 years before they got pregnant, and no one batted an eye).



I do miss having queer friends. It does seem like as we get older (27 and 30 now), we are meeting more lesbians our age who are having babies or are thinking about having babies. Their kids will be a lot younger than ours, but at least we can relate a little bit better now.

Lex

[gamitzer]

Originally Posted by lexbeach

I think maybe the difference is that when you're living in a gay relationship, you are actively living the life of an oppressed group of people. You are constantly having to correct and educate people everywhere you go--even when you live in a hip lesbian-full place like we do. You stand out. Your extended families have to overcome a lot of stuff. It's a pretty big deal. Whereas, being bisexual but living in a heterosexual relationship, you appear to be straight. You fit in. Everyone understands and values your relationship. Having babies is pretty straight forward. Getting married is legal in every state. Your extended family thinks you're pretty normal. It is a TOTALLY different experience from living in a homosexual relationship, even if you've had homosexual relationships in the past or you're attracted to people of both sexes or whatever.
Lex

ITA! Until all relationships are treated as valid, there will always be a difference between "straight" couples and "gay" couples. We have many lesbian friends, but we are the first with children. Our friends with kids are all straight couples. They have a hard time understanding our issues because they don't deal with it on a day to day basis. We are 28 and 29 and are caught in the same place with other young (I like to think we're young!) lesbian couples with kids, but there seem to be so few of us. Our gay friends without kids don't always understand our time constraints, and our straight friends with kids don't always understand the legal/emotional factors that affect our relationship.
As far as I know, we don't have any bisexual friends, but I do think if we had some, they would have a much better understanding of the things we go through.

[snowcrocus]

if you could go both ways, but you don't actively seek out a same-sex relationship, i think you're much likelier to end up in an opposite-sex relationship. in most contexts, most of the people you meet will be looking for an opposite-sex relationship, or expecting the people in their surroundings to be doing that, and if you don't put any effort you just get swept in. there's really nothing wrong with that, in a general sense; but i think it may expose that aspect of a person's personality, how eagerly he seeks out the "queer" community to relate to.

i know that, all things being equal, i could easily have partnered with a woman; but no matter how admiringly i looked at both men and women around me, it was only men who gazed back, and there was one i liked, so i got a man. (well, i also went to a university that was 70% men, so i was highly in demand.) in casual acquaintance i've only ever met three lesbians; but it would surely have been much greater had i actually involved myself with queer-targetted activities. i just never felt the need for support -- indeed, it took me a long time to even realize that my views were different from many other people's. and i know that says something about me.

anyway, the gay vs straight thing has always puzzled me, and i have often thought that if i could just forget the existence of the artificial dichotomy i could save myself a lot of trouble trying to analyze just what is going on here.

[witchygrrl]

Can I just say how much I hate being invisible as a bi woman in a hetero relationship? I don't want "straight privilege" but at the same time, what would I get out of telling new people I'm bi? I'm nearly 30 and monogamous.

Some of my friends, who would have claimed bisexuality in the past, now say they've chosen a gender, and wonder why another friend doesn't. I said why should she HAVE to choose? I chose my partner not because he is male but because I love him. Argh.

I'm also largely in the broom closet. Many people, despite my best efforts to educate them, don't understand paganism/witchcraft. It gets old quick.

[MujerMamaMismo]

Originally Posted by witchygrrl

I'm also largely in the broom closet.

tee hee hee broom closet. hehe. I love it. (But I'm sorry you have to deal with it).

Sorry...carry on with your thread. I'm leaving now.