Banning used breast pumps?! Huh? - Page 6

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by CathMac

I will repeat here what I have said numerous times elsewhere. The original pumping mom's milk --including any pathogens-- can get into the tubes and then travel into the motor. The motor becomes a moist environment to harbor any pathogens (deadly or otherwise, including Thrush); and the heat from the motor provides any warmth necessary for them to thrive. Any milk residue and pathogens can reverse direction and go back into the tubes and into the bottle (and therefore the milk of any subsequent pumping mom) &/or get on the hands of that mom and be transferred onto something that will then transfer the pathogens into her milk.

IF this is true, it is a flaw in the design and a danger to ANY pumping mom and child, not just purchasers of used pumps.This would be a HUGE issue for mothers exclusively pumping for preemies and as has been noted, you don't develop immunity to mold. And, your second child will be in danger.

So - Medala needs to fix the problem, if this is true, and not scare people into NOT buying used ones, where they won't make any money.

[Equuskia]

Originally Posted by grumpybear

This is actually where I get confused because AFAIK, the Ameda PY utilizes a closed system but if you go to their website, the PY is noted to be a single-user pump only.

Probably because the motor may not be strong enough for multiple users.

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by Equuskia

There shouldn't be nasties in the pump in the first place. My next baby could be a preemie, allergic to mold like its father, etc.

Equuskia,
Good point. With respect to mold, it is probably sufficient to keep your tubes clean; and perhaps to disassemble the internal diaphragm and disinfect that on occasion. I'm not sure you're "supposed" to disassemble the diaphragm but I noticed at least one mom in this thread has.

As far as "re-infecting" yourself with the scariest stuff, for the most part once you have it, you have it (E.g.: HIV / AIDS, Hepatitis). I suppose there may be something treatable that you could be cured of and then catch from your pump again but if that were to happen you should simply get rid of the pump.

I have heard that some LC's recommend getting a new pump in cases of really persistent Thrush.

Also, the Amedia Purely Yours (PY) is the only single user pump that has a closed system (due to it's "hygeni-kit" collection kit) that should prevent mold and keep moms from re-infecting themselves with Thrush.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, however, I wouldn't rely on it to protect me from a deadly virus. I'm a clutz and I spilled milk into my pump motor once and the Hygeni-kit is no protection from that as a source of contamination.

~Cath

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by Sassenach280

Yikes, should I be worried about these pathogens being on my kids clothing that I buy from thrift stores? I mean, I don't sterilize their clothes (just wash them) and the child who wore them before could have had some infection. I don't see how anything could get into the motor of a pump, but I could see how things could get on clothes... I'm sorry, but it sounds alarmist to me, too. It's a pump and it sucks in air. As long as everything that actually touches the milk is sterilized, I don't see a problem.

Trust me. It can also suck in breast milk.

[grumpybear]

Originally Posted by Equuskia

Probably because the motor may not be strong enough for multiple users.

Ah! Didn't think about that. Thanks!
Come to think of it, it does seem that the motor is a little bit weaker at pumping now at about 19mos since I bought it

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

IF this is true, it is a flaw in the design and a danger to ANY pumping mom and child, not just purchasers of used pumps.This would be a HUGE issue for mothers exclusively pumping for preemies and as has been noted, you don't develop immunity to mold. And, your second child will be in danger.

So - Medala needs to fix the problem, if this is true, and not scare people into NOT buying used ones, where they won't make any money.

Ellien,
Arguably it's not a design "flaw" so much as it is a shortcoming that their competitor, Ameda, has overcome. This is why Medela advises you to clean your tubes out every time you pump. So they would probably say it's a maintenance issue.

As has been pointed out previously, even though the Ameda PY pump has a "closed system" by virtue of its "Hygeni-kit" collection kit it is still only intended as a single user pump because the motor cannot be sterilized. Having had milk leak into my PIS pump motor I can understand why the FDA will not give multi-user status to a pump with a motor that can't be sterilized.

Anyone that would like to turn their Medela PIS/A into a closed system can rig an Ameda Hygeni-kit to fit. It isn't easy but it can be done and doesn't seem to compromise the suction.

If anyone wants to know what Medela and Ameda would probably have to charge if they were to modify single user pumps and turn them into the multi-user pumps everyone seems to want should try pricing one of their "hospital grade" multi-user pumps. I believe they go for about $1,000.00.

Perhaps the prices will come down over time or if more women start buying pumps so that there is a greater economy of scale. But like it or not we have to pay a premium for innovation, design, quality, durability, features, etc. Let's face it, there are cheaper pumps on the market but they don't do quite the same thing and/or they don't do it as well.

~Cath

[vivaprenda]

risk vs benefit and where eBay falls into the equation

Any news on whether the petition has gained any traction or if eBay is considering making the change to the prohibited items text?

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by CathMac

Ellien,
This is why Medela advises you to clean your tubes out every time you pump.

They do?

OK - disclosure here, I haven't used my pump in 4 years. I boiled those tubes ONCE and then I read the instructions that you specifically were NOT supposed to sterilize the tubes. I guess things have changed.

[mamajake]

Any of you doc/medical researcher mamas have some links to more solid data on transmission risks?

I represented HIV+ people starting in 1988 and a lot of the fears I am reading expressed here have that "it isn't worth the risk" tone I used to hear when battling employers who didn't want people with AIDS in the workplace, schools who didn't want kids with AIDS in schools, landlords who wouldn't rent to people with AIDS. Yes, I hear the retort that whether to buy a used breast pump is not discriminating against anyone (the valid economic arguments I am reading aside for the moment). But ignorance about how difficult it actually is to contract HIV infuriates me. I want to see some documented cases of people who have actually contracted HIV or any of the Hep viruses from a breastpump. Really. How about a single solitary case.

Comparing transmission via breastpump to transmission via syringe, as someone did above, is absurd. Anybody latching their babies onto that potentially contaminated interior pump part? Assuming that the interior of any pump is actually airtight, then assume that your milk is going to infiltrate the pump and come in contact with the interior part, then assume that same milk is going to work its way back out, the milk is going to travel using air suction through your tubing into your storage container external to the pump. You are then going to store the milk somewhere from some period of time (hours to months). What are the chances of a virus being transmitted under those circumstances? I would like to see some data from the virologists on this. Breast milk is not a blood product. Blood can get into it from a cracked nipple but how much? Enough to transmit a virus? A documented case anyone? If you have one, what is the statistical likelihood? How does the likelihood compare with dying in a car wreck on the way to the grocery store tomorrow? Should we stop food shopping?

My concern about people buying breast pumps on Ebay is that you get a whole lot of defective crap on Ebay. A mom who needs to do a lot of pumping needs a high quality pump in good condition. But if a used pump is all that she can afford, I'm not going to stand in her way because her breastmilk is better for her baby than formula.

[SwanMom]

Originally Posted by Equuskia

I still think that this is more important to address than the mere sharing of pumps. I have a PIS that I used for my first child. I may need it again for my second one. I can't use it because it's not sterile, because there's mold and bacteria and the creepy crawlies inside? Did I basically throw $300 away then? Because even if I have immunities to what's inside, my second baby won't. Then what if that baby gets sick due to my inability to sterilize the motor? If there exists a possibility to infect someone else with whatever's inside if I were to share the pump, then how much more possible is it to infect your subsequent babies who have little to no immunity to what's inside?

As for WIC giving out or loaning electric pumps, if yours does, you are one lucky person. WIC here does not loan out pumps, even if you work, which I did.

:

Originally Posted by Ellien C

IF this is true, it is a flaw in the design and a danger to ANY pumping mom and child, not just purchasers of used pumps.This would be a HUGE issue for mothers exclusively pumping for preemies and as has been noted, you don't develop immunity to mold. And, your second child will be in danger.

So - Medala needs to fix the problem, if this is true, and not scare people into NOT buying used ones, where they won't make any money.

: I'm with you Equuskia and Ellien

[MoonJelly]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

They do?

OK - disclosure here, I haven't used my pump in 4 years. I boiled those tubes ONCE and then I read the instructions that you specifically were NOT supposed to sterilize the tubes. I guess things have changed.

I wasn't sure either. I think my brain was so muddled in those days. In any case, I boiled mine and they got all cloudy and never cleared up completely. I kind of wish I had kept to just rinsing them.

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by MoonJelly

I wasn't sure either. I think my brain was so muddled in those days. In any case, I boiled mine and they got all cloudy and never cleared up completely. I kind of wish I had kept to just rinsing them.

Moonjelly,
I think the tubing is the one thing they recommend against boiling probably because it makes it cloudy and then it's hard to tell if any milk backed into the tubes.

Here are the actual cleaning instructions. They advise you to check for condensation each time you pump. In which case you need to dry them. Cleaning is necessary if you see any milk.

Health and Safety Information http://www.medela.com/newfiles/faq/hlthinst.html 3. Home and Hospital Cleaning After each use:
Take apart and wash all parts that come in contact with the breast and milk (except Classic breastpump barrier/filter) in soapy water.

Rinse in cold clear water.

Air-dry on clean towel and cover parts when not in use. The tubing (used only with an electric breastpump), if washed, should be hung to air dry. For faster drying, attach tubings to the pump and run for 1-2 minutes or until dry, or pour a small amount of isopropyl alcohol through the tubings to dry.

If Condensation Appears in Tubing If condensation appears in the tubing, let the pump run after pumping with tubings attached for 1-2 minutes or until dry. Carefully check the tubing for milk spots. If milk gets in the tubing, clean tubing along with the kit according the instructions "Home Sanitizing."

~Cath

[Breastfeeding Insomniac]

Originally Posted by CathMac

Ellien,
Anyone that would like to turn their Medela PIS/A into a closed system can rig an Ameda Hygeni-kit to fit. It isn't easy but it can be done and doesn't seem to compromise the suction.

I would be careful doing this, bc the parts for the pumps are not usually interchangeable between the two manufacturers, at least not in the hospital grade pumps. We have both Medela and Ameda, but you can not put an ameda pump kit on a medela pump bc although the fit is correct, the design can alter the suction which I believe is in mmHg measurements, so if the wrong kit is used then there can actually be damage done to the nipple.

[CathMac]

Originally Posted by Breastfeeding Insomniac

I would be careful doing this, bc the parts for the pumps are not usually interchangeable between the two manufacturers, at least not in the hospital grade pumps. We have both Medela and Ameda, but you can not put an ameda pump kit on a medela pump bc although the fit is correct, the design can alter the suction which I believe is in mmHg measurements, so if the wrong kit is used then there can actually be damage done to the nipple.

Breastfeeding Insomniac,
Thanks for the info. As I may have mentioned earlier in this thread my first pump was my sister's 9 year old PIS. The hospital LC told me that although neither manufacturer would recommend it that I could use the Ameda Hygenikit she gave me. It popped right on without having to rig it. When I replaced it with a PISA I continued to use the Ameda Hygenikit but DH rigged the hard plastic end of the tubing that matched the Medela Kit using one inch pieces of soft tubing stretched over the ends.

I never figured out whether they changed this element of the PIS/A design or whether the PIS was different from the PISA. In either case, the suction didn't seem to suffer, nor did it seem too strong.

I suppose it's possible I've suffered some damage without realizing it. Or maybe the suction was lower than it should be but barely adequate for Working & Pumping. In other words, maybe it contributed to my supply issues when pumping.

If so, perhaps the real danger of trauma would be if you rigged a Medela collection kit to an Ameda Purely Yours. Which I wouldn't recommend with a used pump since the Medela collection kit does not creare a "closed system".

The only reason I mention my experience is because I feel strongly that if you are going to use a used pump that it's probably safer if you do it with a Hygenikit because it creates a closed system. Having said that, I don't think it completely eliminates the risk since it is possible to get milk in the motor by spilling it (as I did once) in which case a subsequent user would be exposed when handling the ends of the tubes.

I will try to remember to mention your warning on interchanging collection kits if/when I suggest using an Ameda Hygenikit with a Medela PIS/A.

~Cath

[RootSnort]

I am renting an Ameda Elite multiuser pump, and I love it.

I hated my Medela Pump In Style and gave that away to someone who needed a pump. I had only used for a few weeks, and milk had never gotten into the tubing.

So, I don't think used pumps should be sold, I think they should be given away with the knowledge that some parts will need immediate replacement. Also, the PIS is not meant to last for more than 1 baby, so it really will need a diaphragm overhaul before passing it on.

I have Whisper Wear which I love, but I don't think that I would share those pumps as I go get milk into the motor sometimes.