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"i Hate You!"  

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
This has become a favorite phrase for my 4.75-year-old twins, courtesy of one of their best friends at school (not that it wouldn't have necessarily shown up around now anyway). After months of trying to figure out the best way to respond, dw and I are at a loss.

Our initial response when this started at the beginning of the summer (so about 6 months ago), was to be very serious and say something like, "that really hurts my feelings. I understand that you're angry, but you need to think of a better way to tell me." When they saw how hurt we were by their use of the word "hate," it only made them start to use it more. So our next strategy was to try to remove all the power from the word. Whenever they said that they hated something, or us, we'd act as if they'd said that they loved it. "Oh really? You love me so much? I love you too baby!" (said in all seriousness, not sarcastic). This infuriated them, and also seemed to help for a while (especially for one of them), but after about a month the H-word crept back in and we no longer seemed to be able to keep up with the pretending. We tried just ignoring it for a while--giving no response at all. But lately we've both been feeling like it's just too much to take. Sometimes I really feel like I just want to cry when they yell it at me. And I can't imagine ever having said "I hate you!" to my parents as a kid (I didn't even say it as a teenager, although dw did at 15 and she feels like her relationship with her mom has never been the same--it was a huge deal). It just would not have been okay. Why do my kids think it's okay? Our latest strategy is to respond with "we don't use that word in our family." And then we say the sentence that they could have used instead, i.e. "I am so mad at you right now."

But I really feel like each day of "I hate you!" is pushing me closer to the edge. Anytime I say no about *anything* I get yelled at with "I hate you!" (even if it's something totally absurd like, "can I have an ice cream cone for dinner?"). Does anyone have any other ideas of how we could respond? Is this just one of those phases? Is there anything we can do at all?

Thanks!



Lex
post #2 of 35
We have a similar, but different, phrase...I'm wondering if you know what your kids want out of saying "I hate you"? Because that's what we're trying to figure out with ours...maybe if we could understand, we could figure out the best response...
post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfish View Post
We have a similar, but different, phrase...I'm wondering if you know what your kids want out of saying "I hate you"? Because that's what we're trying to figure out with ours...maybe if we could understand, we could figure out the best response...
I think they're trying to hurt our feelings/upset us. And it's working.
post #4 of 35
I don't like 'I hate you.' That has recently emerged here. 'I don't like you' I could deal with, respond humorously to. But not I hate you, it's too freaking much, man.

I simply have said to mine, 'I don't want to hear that language. It is not an okay thing to say to your mother.' And she stopped. If she didn't stop, I would probably do some kind of consequence for it.
post #5 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
I simply have said to mine, 'I don't want to hear that language. It is not an okay thing to say to your mother.' And she stopped. If she didn't stop, I would probably do some kind of consequence for it.
Any ideas for what the consequence would be? Because simply saying that that kind of language is not allowed isn't working. But we really try to only do totally logical consequences (if any), and I just can't think of what the logical consequence would be. They lose the right to say anything to me? I stop listening? I don't know.
post #6 of 35
I aim for logical too, but in this case there are limited appropriate logical consequences really, at least that I can think of.

What I would probably do is whatever they wanted that they didn't get and said 'I hate you' for, they would also not get tomorrow. Like if it's ice cream, and you say no ice cream, and they say 'I hate you,' no ice cream tomorrow.

Or something like time out (which I know is taboo here) or whatever is an effective consequence at your house with fairly generic application, if you have one (I dont have one, apart from time out which doesn't work that well for most things).

I myself would probably do the extension of the 'no' which resulted in the 'I hate you.'
post #7 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexbeach View Post
I think they're trying to hurt our feelings/upset us. And it's working.
I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse, if I am, it's because I don't understand my kids...Why do they like to hurt your feelings? Is it anger about the limits you set or does their desire to hurt you come from somewhere else? Is it about power? These are the questions I'm trying to figure out about ours...

FWIW our current tactic is not to let the word have any power at all. We ignore it, kiss their cheek (or whatever) and continue doing what we're doing. If it starts to get to me, I turn on my internal stubborn and remind myself that staying calm probably annoys them the most...but, like you, this isn't getting me where I wish we were as fast as I wish we were getting there!

Who is it...oh, darn, I'm not going to be able to remember, one of my readings for class recently talked about the importance of children destroying their mental images of their parents and yet the actual parent remains, undestroyed...shoot. can't remember...ah!!!
post #8 of 35
I think this phase (and, yes, it is one of those phases) is about experimenting with the power of words, and testing relationships. While it is a very hurtful word, keep in mind that your children (of course) do not actually hate you. They do not even fully understand the concept of hate, so they are not really telling you that they hate you....does that make any sense? They are just really angry and saying the meanest thing that they know, and they need to know that you will still love and accept them.

When dd has said that she hates me, I honor her feelings in the moment. She is strongly disliking me or my actions, and that is ok. I say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way right now," and then just move on. Taking the power out of it, and showing that you will love them regardless, should result in less use of the word.
post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfish View Post
I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse, if I am, it's because I don't understand my kids...Why do they like to hurt your feelings?
Not the op, but my dd tries to hurt me because she is mad! She's angry, so she lashes out.
post #10 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
When dd has said that she hates me, I honor her feelings in the moment. She is strongly disliking me or my actions, and that is ok. I say something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way right now," and then just move on. Taking the power out of it, and showing that you will love them regardless, should result in less use of the word.
Yes, I do think this is the response that resonates with me the most. It's what we were doing consistently for a couple of months, and lately we go back and forth between this and the "we don't use that word in our family" response (a response which has worked well to disappear other unfortunate words like "stupid," "shut up," and "brat"). But perhaps I will try to just stick with the power-removal response and remember that this is just a phase. I know that they don't actually hate me, but when I'm hearing that they do upwards of 20 times a day, it gets really hard to take. It's not always in response to me saying "no" to something. Sometimes it's just the response I get when I pick them up at school (because I've come "too early" when really I come at the same time everyday), or the response when I give one of them attention after they've had a fight. I don't think I'd feel comfortable using a "there will be consequences" approach to this one because it would be really hard to universally apply the consequences.

Sigh. This is definitely one of those "I never imagined this part" times in my parenting experience. I'm off to snuggle up in bed with the baby, who can't even talk yet and hopefully won't be able to tell me hates me for at least another 2 years.

Thanks, Mamas!

Lex
post #11 of 35
"Wow! You sound so angry! Let's talk about this. What is going on?!"

"I understand that you want ice cream, how about having a bowl after dinner?"

"I love you."


Pat
post #12 of 35
So, I'm not a mom, but when you said "logical consequences"... wouldn't the logical response to anyone else be to stop being around them when they are acting like that?

But, then I read Sunnmama's response, and she is right... they don't mean it, they don't even *know* how deep of a feeling hate can be... and they do need your love and attention. So maybe a "logical consequence" just can't work in this instance. I like the idea of acknowledging it and moving on.

Also, can you address different ways of dealing w/ their anger after the fact? I read a lot about role play and such on this board.

Anyway, totally not helpful, but I also wanted to offer a : b/c it seems to really upset you.
post #13 of 35
Nicholas (4) has been totally into this lately. It helps to keep a sense of humor. He looks so petulant and angry when he says it; we can just tell that he's a total victim to all his emotions and circumstances, and we know he really does love us. So, strategies include
-kissing him and saying "That's OK, I've got enouogh love to carry us through"
-rephrasing: "You hate that you can't have ice cream right now. It's hard to wait sometimes, isn't it?"
-having a few extra cuddles without acknowledging the hate stuff
-just ignoring it

I agree with the posters above; it hurts us because we understand what hate is. But little ones really don't. They're just beginning to learn that words have power. And really, it's tough to be a little kid. You don't have a whole lot of power. So if you find a word that has a lot of power, you use it, you know?

FWIW, I know they love you to pieces.
post #14 of 35
About snuggling with the baby....in my really desperate moments, I tell dh that we aren't going to teach this one to talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
"I love you."
This response backfires on me hugely. Even though I am saying it sincerely, it totally pisses dd off
post #15 of 35
We've been having the same problem with DS who will be 5 at the end of January. I've tried timeout, holding him until he calms down, ignoring it but none of that worked. The ignoring made it much worse and he actually became violent. A couple of days ago I'd had all I could take when I didn't respond to his anger and he decided that hitting me with a stool would be a good way to get me to notice him. I picked him up, carried him upstairs to his bedroom and before I closed the door I told him that it is not ok to hurt others and it is not ok to say things that hurt people's feelings. I then told him that he had to stay in his room until he was ready to calm down. Once he stopped yelling and screaming I went to him and asked very calmly if he was ready to talk about it. We had a brief recap of what is unacceptable and he hasn't had a single outburst since. It's only been two days but I'm taking my victories where I can.
post #16 of 35
Another mama with a 4.75 yo. She occasionally says this, but only when she's really, really mad. She did say it more, and I tried some of the above suggestions, even though they felt kind of off to me. I think what I learned is that it doesn't work to minimize it. Trying to "take away the power" really offended my dd. I do that when ds1 says it, or just kind of brush over it, but I think a four year old knows what it means and is saying it because of that.

Anyway, it seems to help to take my dd seriously, and seriously tell her that I'm listening and that I can tell she's very upset. When she's done, I tell her, still very seriously, that it hurts my feelings A WHOLE LOT to be told that. Then I try to give her alternatives to saying it.

I feel for you, though, and other moms of twins, because I see my 2.5 yo egg on my 4.75 yo, and I think it would be a little harder if they were both 4.75.
post #17 of 35
I have a clear memory of being sat down by my father and having a talk about what the word "hate" really means. I remember him telling me that when you say "hate," you are really saying that you have no use for the person. That your life would be better if they were gone, dead... maybe even that you wish they were dead. That you think they are worthless. I was little -- maybe 4 or 5 years old, but it still sticks in my mind as a really important talk. He was gentle about, but he really articulated very well why it is such a painful thing to hear. What I took away from that was, "Hate is a very strong word. Think carefully about whether you mean it before you say it."
post #18 of 35
We just had this issue this morning. And dh is really hurt by ds saying 'I don't love you' to me, after I won the "Go Fish" card game.


Really, I can not see giving it the power to "hurt my feelings". I understand and honor that ds (6.5) is expressing the intensity of his emotions with a "strong word", which doesn't have the implication of "forever", that we may associate with its expression. I validated his intensity "I understand that you are upset! You wanted to win!" But, taking it to heart only hurts myself, when ds really isn't intending the degree of hurt that we perceive is attached to the phrase.

An analogy is when I say to my friend "Ds is driving me crazy!!" I don't actually mean that I am going out of my mind. (well, most times it doesn't. ) Or "I could kill him for cutting the curtains." (which he hasn't done) There are many 'figures of speech' which we use and apply to different situations to express *our emotional experience*, but we don't intend the impact that another feels, when we are awash with those Big Emotions.

I try to model the 'sticks and stones' concept. I believe it is more empowering *to* the child to recognize that other's words can not actually hurt them. And yet, I share the potential impact when his (or my) words affect another. With me, I model choosing my reactions.

No one can make you feel inferior without your permission." --Eleanor Roosevelt



It is important for me to remember that my child is not trying to hurt someone else's feelings by stating theirs. They are communicating to the best of their ability in any given situation. My desire is to *listen* and support them through their emotions, not amp us up into an emotional storm. The opportunity to share their impact is when they are out of the storm and into the calm of our support, ime. Connection when feeling overwhelmed, or space to experience their emotions without loss of our support is a gift.


Pat
post #19 of 35
My son learned that nasty little phrase at preschool this year.

He yelled that at me exactly once. I made it very clear that we DO NOT speak to people like that, and that I expected him to never say those words to me again.

That may not be the best GD answer, but I will not put up with being spoken to that way.
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
"Wow! You sound so angry! Let's talk about this. What is going on?!"

"I understand that you want ice cream, how about having a bowl after dinner?"

"I love you."


Pat
This in the moment. I especially like things like "you sound really angry, what's going on?" because it helps give a child other words to express those strong feelings while at the same time validating their feelings and empathizing (which can help a kid calm down, and open up opportunity for problem-solving together). eta A pp touched on this, but I wanted to add that I've found that when doing this it helps to listen first without saying that I don't like that word (so nothing like "I hear that you're angry, but you may not use that word. You can tell me another way"--that's really not validating, that's breezing right by the child's concern to get to yours). It's not that my concern about using the word "hate" is unimportant, but that my kids are going to be much more open to my concern after I've really listened to them. I think that in general, when we say "I know you feel that way, but..." to anyone, it shuts down communication because the other person doesn't feel heard, and in fact we aren't really listening them when we do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaduck View Post
I have a clear memory of being sat down by my father and having a talk about what the word "hate" really means. I remember him telling me that when you say "hate," you are really saying that you have no use for the person. That your life would be better if they were gone, dead... maybe even that you wish they were dead. That you think they are worthless. I was little -- maybe 4 or 5 years old, but it still sticks in my mind as a really important talk. He was gentle about, but he really articulated very well why it is such a painful thing to hear. What I took away from that was, "Hate is a very strong word. Think carefully about whether you mean it before you say it."
And this at some other, calm, time. I think it is good to talk (outside that heated moment) about how people tend to feel when we use certain words, and about our preference that our kids use other words to express their feelings (and how it can actually help us get our own needs met when we're more clear in our communication-'I hate you' really doesn't tell the other person what it is you need/want). eta This can be part of proactively addressing the use of the word hate, and it can be helpful to at some calm time brainstorm other words to express anger, or role-play.
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