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"i Hate You!" - Page 2  

post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
But, taking it to heart only hurts myself, when ds really isn't intending the degree of hurt that we perceive is attached to the phrase.
I very much agree with this.

To me, it is similar the difference between a toddler hitting and a schoolage child hitting. A school age child can understand that they are hurting the other person, but the toddler is just reacting. Likewise, a teen knows how incredibly hurtful the phrase "I hate you!" is, but a young child does not. So my response (both inward and outward) would be different at each age.
post #22 of 35
Okay, reading this thread I think it is alright to say 'People can only hurt you if you give them permission' and try creative strategies etc. However, I also think it is okay to say, 'You know, this is not alright with me that my children repeatedly tell me they hate me. Enough.'

My suggestions (of telling them to stop it, and implementing consequences if that is not respected) were from the perspective of reading that the OP had tried a lot of strategies, this is ongoing, and she is finding it intolerable at this point. Which, I can really understand. My kid has recently started with the 'I hate you,' and frankly I am not willing to listen to it. I nipped it in the bud right quick. Now she only says it to her dad, because they have made a game of it. It's actually pretty funny , but not a game I want to play with her myself.

Again I see the pressure here toward never saying no, or setting a boundary with children, as though that is somehow lesser or a wrong thing for the parent to do. I would not tolerate repetitive I hate you's from an adult in my life, and I think we don't have to do the 'just don't let it get to you' with children either. I do think that is the preferred strategy to take when it is a short term or isolated issue, but when it is all the time over a period of weeks or months, I think it is certainly fine to tell the child, you know what, you don't say that to your mother.
post #23 of 35
For me it would just depend on my child, the situation, the history, what responses I had tried, etc.

Sometimes just knowing that it's okay to let go of your frustration allows you to do just that, and find new depths of creativity. Sometimes you really have hit an absolute personal limit and the best thing for everyone is a clear, definite boundary to acknowledge it. There is such a balance in all of this!

Have you sat down as mamaduck described and really gone over the meaning of the word hate? I'm guessing you probably did. I like sledg's "One, two" approach of diffusing strong emotions in the moment, and waiting until emotions are calm to discuss your expectations.

But I'm not getting the impression that your children *are* expression strong emotions. Or am I reading it wrong? It sounds like they are using this word like a habit, not being especially hysterical or angry when they use it.

If I felt my child had made a *habit* of the word "hate" (meaning, it wasn't that he was overwhelmed with anger, but a habitual behavior to express general disagreement and disappointment), I would reach a point where I would feel it was up to me as the parent to help him succeed in using better language consistently.

I think I'd approach this as not being about me personally, but about my child having picked up some very poor language skills. Like if my child had picked up chronic whining, or something like that. In my experience brainstorming together, and then implementing the plan created, can be very helpful.

Now this is what would have worked with my ds: Creating a plan together beforehand. For example, we might decide that if he fell back on using the word hate, I would "freeze", until he said he wanted a do-over. A do-over would mean that he got an immediate chance to try again using better words. So let's say I'm reading to him, and I get sleepy, and say that I need the story to end on this chapter. And ds is disappointed and says 'I hate you!'. I'd "freeze" on that note, say nothing further, and continue on with my evening. My own ds would have *immediately* wanted conversation back, which is why this would be the likely plan we'd create. For him my "Freezing" conversation would have been very helpful--none of the embarrassment of being told outright to use other words, no heated emotional response from me, nor any criticism. But also a very clear demonstration for him that the word was a poor choice, and a motivation to make a better choice quickly. I can see him saying 'I want a do-over!'. Me saying "Okay, great. I said I was sleepy, and needed to end on this chapter. What words could you use instead of hate?". Then help him pick something different, and then lots of good vibes to reinforce the better choice. Lots of praise for making the better choice.

For *my* ds this probably would probably be a quick and positive exercise that would help him tremendously getting in touch with his own better skills--but I can't anticipate all the ways it might backfire with another child. The overall point is that if you step back and take in all the things you know about your child, and get clear on what your goal is in addressing this issue...can you create some idea's from there? If so can you involve them in conversation to create a plan from your intuitive idea's? Can you see that working?
post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
Now this is what would have worked with my ds: Creating a plan together beforehand.
Another good idea, imo-I find problem-solving and plan-making ahead of time to be very helpful. Can you sit down with your kids and make a plan for using other words when they're angry? Maybe you can come up with a signal of some kind that you can use when they say "I hate you" that will remind them to try other words instead? Could you practice using other words? Can you have a sort of "replay" of what happened earlier, for example saying "I hate you" when you picked them up "early" from school, and practice using different words?

There's a book I like called Raising A Thinking Child which is all about helping preschoolers and young children learn to resolve conflicts through communication skills, perspective taking skills, and problem-solving skills. It's a great resource with lots of activities for helping kids practice these skills outside the heat of the moment, as well as advice for helping kids use these skills in the moment.
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Okay, reading this thread I think it is alright to say 'People can only hurt you if you give them permission' and try creative strategies etc. However, I also think it is okay to say, 'You know, this is not alright with me that my children repeatedly tell me they hate me. Enough.'

My suggestions (of telling them to stop it, and implementing consequences if that is not respected) were from the perspective of reading that the OP had tried a lot of strategies, this is ongoing, and she is finding it intolerable at this point. Which, I can really understand. My kid has recently started with the 'I hate you,' and frankly I am not willing to listen to it. I nipped it in the bud right quick. Now she only says it to her dad, because they have made a game of it. It's actually pretty funny , but not a game I want to play with her myself.

Again I see the pressure here toward never saying no, or setting a boundary with children, as though that is somehow lesser or a wrong thing for the parent to do. I would not tolerate repetitive I hate you's from an adult in my life, and I think we don't have to do the 'just don't let it get to you' with children either. I do think that is the preferred strategy to take when it is a short term or isolated issue, but when it is all the time over a period of weeks or months, I think it is certainly fine to tell the child, you know what, you don't say that to your mother.
:

I have said "I hate you" many times to my mother throughout my life. She was abusive and I did mean it and she did deserve it.

I have not (yet) had this said to me by my son. If he were to say it to me I would quickly & sternly respond that he is not allowed to say that to me ever again. I just could not allow it.

I agree with the post I quoted. It does seem that the OP has tried several different ways to get this to stop happening. I think now is the time to be a little more stern and just put your foot down so to speak. It is not just happening when they are mad b/c mom told them no. It is happening when she picks them up from school wrong or intervenes in a fight. It seems to me to be a lack of respect/compassion towards their mother on their part. I don't see it as just happening when they are mad b/c they are not getting what they want (i.e. ice cream).
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistymama View Post
My son learned that nasty little phrase at preschool this year.

He yelled that at me exactly once. I made it very clear that we DO NOT speak to people like that, and that I expected him to never say those words to me again.

That may not be the best GD answer, but I will not put up with being spoken to that way.
Misty, I would have done the same thing.
I do a lot for my children and I won't be a doormat to their negative feelings.
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Again I see the pressure here toward never saying no, or setting a boundary with children, as though that is somehow lesser or a wrong thing for the parent to do. I would not tolerate repetitive I hate you's from an adult in my life, and I think we don't have to do the 'just don't let it get to you' with children either. I do think that is the preferred strategy to take when it is a short term or isolated issue, but when it is all the time over a period of weeks or months, I think it is certainly fine to tell the child, you know what, you don't say that to your mother.
My post was not meant to be critical of a boundary. I've just seen (on MDC) many people really hurt by hearing "I hate you" from their kids, and I am offering my perspective on the subject--- hoping that it might prevent some unnecessary hurt.

I don't think there is anything wrong with telling a child that is not an appropriate thing to say to their mother. I think that is an important lesson to teach. But in the moment (when dc is really angry), I don't think that a consequence is the best approach for this behavior at this age. In my mind, it would be like giving an 18 mo a consequence for hitting (which I did not do....but I do give my 6 yo a consequence for hitting me in anger, kwim?).

YMMV, of course
post #28 of 35
I knew, just from the title of the thread, that this child was most likely between 4 and 5.

Developmentally, kids this age are learning the power of words. But, they don't understand the full power that words have, nor do they have a very sophisticated vocabulary for shades of emotions. Thus, "hate" covers everything from "hate" (as in absolutely detest and no I won't even let asparagus be in the same room as me) to "angry" to "really annoyed".

And how many times do adults use "hate" in this way? "Grr... I hate it when someone cuts me off in traffic like that." (I'm angry) "I need my slippers, I hate walking around the house with cold feet." (I'm bothered/annoyed.)

Just like with hitting, some kids wield the power of language like a club. And yes, it does hurt when they say, "Go away!" or "I hate you!" Just like it physically hurts when they poke you in the eye. But it should be a minor hurt, realizing that you it's not really what they mean. They aren't ending your relationship forever, they're just really mad with a smaller vocabulary than you have!

Because of this I don't think I'd look for logical consequences here (and usually, I'm OK with that). You can't 'forbid' this kind of language because you can't really forbid the emotion behind it!

What you can do that which people have suggested before:
1. In the moment, validate their feelings and give them appropriate words to use. But don't expect change in the moment, because once they've lost their cool enough to throw that at you, it's not a teachable moment.

2. At another time, talk about appropriate language and the meaning of 'hate'.

I'd add:
3. Give yourself time and space to cool down. I'm much more able to keep it together when my kids are verbally angry at me, but when they hit me, I see red. That elicits a visceral "fight" response in me that I have trouble controlling. I have to go to another room. I suspect for many people, they can handle the physical hitting a toddler does, but they may need to step away to control themselves with hurtful emotional language. And indeed, your stepping away to regroup is a powerful lesson to your child (anti social behavior/language means I have a hard time being with you), and a good model of how to deal with powerful emotions.

4. Play games where you use/illustrate words for different emotions. My kids love to have me pretend to get angry or sad. When I do that, then I can use language that's appropriate. You can play this out with dolls, or cars or anything. The playful approach really helps the connection and to practice these skills.
post #29 of 35
LynnS, I just need to follow you around and : you. I'm even the same way in that this verbal stuff doesn't especially get my goat, but hitting really does.

This was a great thread for me to read. My DD isn't saying this exact phrase, but she's doing the same thing--trying out the power of angry words when she's angry. (I posted a thread about this called "I don't like you and you're not my friend" or something similar recently). One thing about DD is that for whatever reason, she never really responds to the whole "affirming feelings" thing (that I can see, anyway). I do it, but it's more just so I feel like I am offering an appropriate response. And like sunnmama, I tried, "I love you" and it pissed her off! Ignoring her makes her nuts, too.

So what IS effective with DD? Talking about feelings out of the storm helps. Play-acting feelings helps a lot, too. We are doing a LOT of talking about feelings around here lately, and it's been helpful, but yeah, DD is one passionate kiddo and I just cannot expect her to listen to absorb any comments/lectures about it in the moment. It's more a "trust and wait" thing.
post #30 of 35
Lots and lots of great advice in this thread.

What about doing some serious re-connecting in general? Taking the kids out one-on-one for a movie or something fun? Spending more time together doing stuff of their choosing? Doing little lovies for them throughout the day (like show up with a snack, tuck them in with a blanket on the couch, let them lick the bowl after making cookies, etc.)? Whatever helps fill up their tanks and helps you all connect and feel all warm and fuzzy.

What struck me was that the kids are really yelling this at you for many different things. It sounds like the things that prompt them aren't necessarily a big deal, but that there is some cumulative thing going on with them that has each of these instances sort of push them over the edge.

And I would totally talk it over with them in a quiet time and ask if there's anything else going on with them and if there's anything they'd like you, as a parent, to do differently with them. See what they say. It could be something so simple like a kid at school is teasing them or they don't like their teacher.

Hang in there!! They don't hate you!! And the fact that they feel comfortable expressing that much anger and frustration to you is a good sign--they trust you and love you!
post #31 of 35
I feel compelled to add that even though its not sensible to "take it personally," when the barrage of ugly language is very frequent and very intense, it *does* wear on you -- even if you are working hard at not taking it personally, and not attaching the level of intent that you might if it was coming from an adult. It still affects you, and it still wears you down. So please, don't feel guilty for your own feelings and reaction. They are perfectly legitimate!
post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaduck View Post
I feel compelled to add that even though its not sensible to "take it personally," when the barrage of ugly language is very frequent and very intense, it *does* wear on you -- even if you are working hard at not taking it personally, and not attaching the level of intent that you might if it was coming from an adult. It still affects you, and it still wears you down. So please, don't feel guilty for your own feelings and reaction. They are perfectly legitimate!
: ITA with this. I also feel that although we might know they don't have the same level of understanding as an adult, and we may know their intention well enough to not take it personally, that doesn't necessarily make it okay for our children to repetitively scream 'I hate you' at us.
post #33 of 35
Thread Starter 
Oh wow. I never could have imagined that I'd get so many helpful strategy ideas!

I definitely think that at this point my kids are saying "I hate you!" more out of habit than because they are having genuine strong feelings. It's like it somehow just became their catch-all disappointment phrase. And while I certainly don't take it literally, it has been wearing me down to hear it so many, many times a day (they also say, "you need to go to jail!"). It's just a whole new kind of rejection for me, and that's what makes me sad. I don't want to be the mean mom who makes them so angry.

Really, I just want to enjoy my kids. And for some reason I'm definitely not loving this age or stage or phase or whatever it is. It's so hard for me to have fun with them right now because they're constantly telling me that they hate me, and I feel like I can't do anything right. They're so sensitive and quick to melt down, and it just takes so much energy to try to keep them in good spirits.

Today I spent the whole day with just Jasper and Zeben while Lukas went to preschool alone. It was lovely. It's just as lovely to have Lukas home alone without Jaz. I'm guessing that the root of our struggles could be a lack of one-on-one time. It's just really hard to make it happen with three kids under 5. Along with the "I hate you!" and "You should go to jail!" I'm also hearing a lot of, "you love him more than me," so I'm guessing that there is some insecurity going on. Which of course just totally breaks my heart. Because all I want is for my attachment parented preschoolers to feel completely loved and secure.

Gotta go put the baby down. Maybe I'll be back later to add more . . .

Lex
post #34 of 35
When my son originally went through this I didn't know how to handle it. I tried reasoning, explaining and pleading. Then my mom told me something that really worked. Now when DS says I hate you I tell him, that's too bad becasue I love you, even when you are angry. It usually works, usually.

Good luck
post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexbeach View Post
I'm guessing that the root of our struggles could be a lack of one-on-one time. It's just really hard to make it happen with three kids under 5.
Hi Lex. Another momma of 4 year old twins and other kids checking in. I think what you said above might be right. My twins are 4 months younger than yours. Dh and I try to do some one on one time, but it's really difficult. We do the best we can, and we really do see what you did- when they're apart, they are really pleasant.

We hear a lot of "Well then I don't love you." only they say it to each other. I'm finding 4 to be the hardest age so far. It was tough when my 6 year old was 4, but TWO 4 year old's that learn from each other is exceedingly hard.
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