or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Archives › Miscellaneous › Dads › Fathers who breastfeed!?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Fathers who breastfeed!? - Page 8

post #141 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglyn View Post
IMO, I dont think it *is* a biological abnormality, but a latent trait.
If anything, we could probably call it "vestigial lactation" and leave it at that. Whether it's a adaptive or a biological leftover from a stage of fetal development before sex traits seperate according to X or Y is pretty much irrelevant. If it's present and infants can get SOME use out of it, I don't see the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglyn View Post
At least, my only point was, that if its so unnatural then it wouldnt happen in, you know, nature.
:
Weird or uncomfortable doesn't mean unnatural. Nature is freakin' bizarre.
post #142 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglyn View Post
Ok, I hate repeating stuff I've already posted, but here goes again: the goats were normal males, who had impregnanted females and everything and then one day, the udders just grew and functioned. And its not uncommon.
"Normal" males (or females) do not just suddenly sprout sex organs of the opposite sex, unless that's already a characteristic of the species (like those frogs that can change sex if needed).

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/articl...21/-1/search01

I don't think "goat sprouts udders, probably 'cause of toxic sludge" proves anything.

And apparently increased prolactin and estrogen are big risk factors for breast cancer in males.

Quote:
there are documented and current cases of male breastfeeding and adequately nourishing a child.........
I haven't seen any documented cases of male "breast-milk" adequately nourishing a child. I've seen a lot of "a friend of a friend knows some guy who totally breastfed for like 5 months!" stories. But again, there's a lot of links posted, I might have missed the one where a man started breastfeeding a newborn immediately after birth and was able to be the sole source of nutrition and exclusively breastfeed for a minimum of 6 months. I'll double check.
post #143 of 243
Quote:
My husband has these little twee hairy nipples that barely protrude. I can't picture my DD trying to latch on to that.
I have those too, but, ya know, without the hairy part. It's normal (LESS normal, but still normal) for women to have small nipples that barely protrude. They are commonly reffered to as flat nipples (a poorly discriptive term), and are sometimes also inverted. You're right, it's not as easy for a newborn to latch onto them, and can cause lots of difficulties (you should have seen my SPD ds! ) but it can be done. my 4yo would be happy to show you.
post #144 of 243
Oddly enough, I had *one* nipple that was flat. I had to "tweak" it out for dd2 to be able to latch but eventually the tissue got stretched enough that it's no longer flat. (I didn't nurse dd1 long enough for that to happen )
post #145 of 243
oh CB! flat nipples and nursing problems suck! (non pune intended) We had to do all kinds of crazy things to get ds to latch - it was at least a two person job in the begening. I still have a scar on my right one from nearly loosing it. it's funny now, but it sure wasn't then.
post #146 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae View Post
IMO, biological abnormalities do not justify reevaluating gender roles.
The thing is there isn't just one biological abnormality that blurs the lines between the "two sexes", there's a whole ton. It turns out, the closer we look at gender and sex, that people run the gamut. XX people's physiology and hormones run across a certain spectrum, same with XY. There are places where those spectrums meet, including in those individuals who cannot be clearly defined as one of two sexes. Sure, not all of those can reproduce--but they are all people and no one call will away their existence. If some of those people are XY and can still breastfeed and accept whatever risk to their bodies, what's it to you?

Obviously this is not the reality most people see or live. They see the vast majority of humanity fitting into two little neat boxes. Cool, if it works for you, go for it, color your world pink and blue--without any purple--but don't impose such a stilted worldview on me, because I live in that purple space between those two boxes. So, for me the existence of what you call "biological abnormalities" are evidence of how wonderfully diverse and beautiful we humans are. But, if you look around and expect to only see pink and blue, you'll convince yourself that every other color really does fit in your neat little boxes.

I'm not jumping up and down and cheerleading for immediate male BFing, just really interested in the level of emotional response to changing gender roles around child rearing. Maybe it's so fascinating because there are so many people who can't seem to interact with me like a normal human being when I wear a suit and tie with my butch dyke short hair or don't think I should be raising kids. Seems pretty similar to me--immediately reject or punish any suggestion of breaking out of the nice little boxes. Maybe those boxes are just too comfortable?

When it comes to BFing there are a lot of really good questions folks have raised that should be answered if anyone is seriously considering this (and gay men who adopt infants, are, btw: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...families/77524 and as referenced by NARTH, who are obviously against it, http://www.narth.com/docs/brfeed.html). It seems there are three important questions to assess in terms of any real world use (1) is if there's any risk (hormone change, cancer) to a man using the Lact-Aid type thing with donor milk or formula? (2) if men do start lactating, what is the milk composition like? (3) Questions 1 and 2 for MTF women.

If this post is a little terse and snippy, it's just that I really react strongly to dismissing the real lives of people outside the nice two sex/gender boxes by just calling them "biological abnormalities" and refusing to take seriously the questions raised by their living as if we can sweep everyone who doesn't fit those boxes under the table and make us stay there. I refuse to stay under the table!!
post #147 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfish View Post

If this post is a little terse and snippy, it's just that I really react strongly to dismissing the real lives of people outside the nice two sex/gender boxes by just calling them "biological abnormalities" and refusing to take seriously the questions raised by their living as if we can sweep everyone who doesn't fit those boxes under the table and make us stay there. I refuse to stay under the table!!
post #148 of 243
Being opposed to male breastfeeding does NOT equal seeing gender as binary or oppressing trans people. In any way.

We have had threads on this issue before, and for me that clouds my responses. I think women cheerleading this can go down a slippery, creepy road pretty quickly. Risks include the man 'comfort nursing' at his 'breast' in the name of being a 'sensitive man' and mama's supply is compromised, advocacy of use of drugs to increase male milk production, and men inserting themselves and interfering with mama-baby bonding in IMO an inappropriate way to the detriment of both mother (who can experience PPD) and baby (who may get nipple confusion or a mama without enough supply to meet his/her nutritional needs), etc etc.

I don't like this idea one bit, and I think it is not closed minded in the least to refrain from joining the cheerleading squad on this issue.
post #149 of 243
I had posted a comment on this thread, and was even quoted by CherryBomb who agreed with me, but today my post is gone and I don't know why.
post #150 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
I had posted a comment on this thread, and was even quoted by CherryBomb who agreed with me, but today my post is gone and I don't know why.
That's odd purity lake. Are you sure it's gone?? Usually you will get a pm if they delete one of your posts.
post #151 of 243
Quote:
can go down a slippery, creepy road pretty quickly.
such as?
Quote:
Risks include the man 'comfort nursing' at his 'breast' in the name of being a 'sensitive man' and mama's supply is compromised, advocacy of use of drugs to increase male milk production, and men inserting themselves and interfering with mama-baby bonding in IMO an inappropriate way to the detriment of both mother (who can experience PPD) and baby (who may get nipple confusion or a mama without enough supply to meet his/her nutritional needs), etc etc.
surely this is not it. That's no different than a pacifier and/or supplementing. (I'm going to leave the "in the name of being a 'sensitive man'" thing alone )



GREAT post, greenfish!
post #152 of 243
A couple of mine are gone as well, same with yours lovingmommyhood. Dunno. We're not supposed to talk about it in the thread.
post #153 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunar forest View Post
such as?
We can't discuss other threads but you might want to PM somebody.

Quote:
surely this is not it. That's no different than a pacifier and/or supplementing. (I'm going to leave the "in the name of being a 'sensitive man'" thing alone )
Pacifiers and supplementing compromise supply as well. But they do not have their own agenda.
post #154 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
We can't discuss other threads but you might want to PM somebody.



Pacifiers and supplementing compromise supply as well. But they do not have their own agenda.
Oh whoops I didn't even notice.

I know what you are referring to... yeah, a very creepy road.
post #155 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood View Post
That's odd purity lake. Are you sure it's gone?? Usually you will get a pm if they delete one of your posts.
Yeah, I know, because I have been asked to edit my posts through PM from moderators, so I know the process.

My post here is gone and I never was notified by PM.

Not only that, CherryBomb's post in which she quoted me is also gone.

Very weird.

Oops, I just read thismama's post where she said we're not allowed to talk about the fact that a post is missing.

I was just afraid I was losing my mind, or something.
post #156 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
We can't discuss other threads but you might want to PM somebody.
I don't mean what threads, I mean what creepiness. I honestly have no idea what you're reffering to.
Quote:
Pacifiers and supplementing compromise supply as well. But they do not have their own agenda.
But daddies using them could. I don't see a difference.

*creeped out by mysterious missing posts*
post #157 of 243
I am curious about the subtle referencing made here about a man's motivation to breastfeed.

Are people suggesting what I think they are?

It's all so subtle that I'm not sure.

Words mentioned are 'agenda', 'sensitive', 'that kind of guy', etc.
post #158 of 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~ View Post
I am curious about the subtle referencing made here about a man's motivation to breastfeed.

Are people suggesting what I think they are?

It's all so subtle that I'm not sure.

Words mentioned are 'agenda', 'sensitive', 'that kind of guy', etc.
Yes, I noticed that too...
post #159 of 243

From the Dads Moderator

Hi Folks,

This thread gets a lot of traffic and posts(?) from the fringes as well as the mainstream and it is all I can do to keep it on topic. If I deleted your post, or edited it, it was to hopefully avoid a few areas of concern, namely descriptions of men (attractive or not), usefulness of men, men outside the realm of fathers, and of course, the agreeing or disagreeing with any of the aforementioned areas, among a handful of other reasons.

I have been warned that this thread may spiral out of control at any second, so I am fairly quick to delete OT or sidebar comments rather than picking through the individual words.

I apologize if I make any mistakes, but given the apparent volatility of this topic and that it has landed in the Dads section, I am careful in how I approach each post, possibly erring on the side of caution. And the explanation-PMs alone would take an hour a day.

Thanks for your understanding.

pb
post #160 of 243
Eh.

Pretty controversial topic for a guy with only 4 posts to his name. I'll bet he's just chortling away at how he managed to skeeve out/inspire arguments among so many women on teh internets with his little fire bomb. Wow, did he ever get 'em going!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dads
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Archives › Miscellaneous › Dads › Fathers who breastfeed!?