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Ex's and Christmas Presents for Kids

2K views 42 replies 20 participants last post by  hippiemum21580 
#1 ·
So I asked STBX today if he was going to pitch in to get the boys presents or if he was going to buy his own presents for them. He got all huffy and said that he didn't have any money for presents (yet he bought himself a new $2000 laptop). He feels that I should get (and pay for) the presents myself and since they are from Santa it won't make a difference whether he pitches in or not (in other words, the boys won't question that he didn't buy them anything). I am so annoyed that here I am scrimping to make ends meet while he is buying new computer equipment, cigarettes, lottery tickets, etc. Should I make a big deal out of this or just drop it and add it to my secret list of why he is such a deadbeat?
 
#3 ·
Is he having a Xmas with them? If so, he'll look bad then all on his own. If he's tagging along to yours, I'd say no to him coming. Don't carry your weight, you're SOL. And around our Xmas tree, Santa gives gifts, but so do Daddy and MOmmy. I don't know how old they are this year, but kids figure out pretty quick when all the presents are from Santa and mommy...none from daddy (DH and I still give seperate gifts to each child and some together). I'd tell him that you aren't covering for him and that the kids will notice if not this year, eventually.
 
#4 ·
No, don't buy gifts for them from him. I can't understand these people who won't give their own children gifts.

The first year I was separated, my ex thought I was going to chip in half for presents for everyone on his side of the family! Um, no. We did split some things that year for the kids, we each paid half, but since then it's each household does their own thing.
 
#5 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kierdan'sMom View Post
Is he having a Xmas with them? If so, he'll look bad then all on his own. If he's tagging along to yours, I'd say no to him coming. Don't carry your weight, you're SOL. And around our Xmas tree, Santa gives gifts, but so do Daddy and MOmmy. I don't know how old they are this year, but kids figure out pretty quick when all the presents are from Santa and mommy...none from daddy (DH and I still give seperate gifts to each child and some together). I'd tell him that you aren't covering for him and that the kids will notice if not this year, eventually.
I understand the desire to do this, but preventing a parent from seeing their child because they can't or won't buy them a present is pretty bad. What if the situation were reversed, and you couldn't (or wouldn't) buy your child a present - should the other parent prevent you from seeing your child?

Don't punish the kids because their dad won't buy them gifts. What would say "Daddy isn't coming to Christmas because he has no presents for you?" Not the best lesson to be teaching.
 
#6 ·
I buy Santa gifts and gifts from Mommy. Now my xh gets my dd gifts from him at his house.

The first few years, we never celebrated holidays together. So gifts from Mommy were just from Mommy. And birthday parties were with Mommy and my family. He had separate celebrations at his house with his friends/family.

I think this is one of the many factors in my favor when he asked the court for him to be able to claim her on his taxes every other year. At that time, I was buying all toys, clothes, shoes, Easter baskets, Christmas gifts etc. although we made the same amount of money. I have sole physical custody and so I get to claim her on my taxes every year.
 
#7 ·
Yeah, I don't think I'd be comfortable telling him that he can't come over. I was thinking more along the lines of just really ragging on him (obviously not in front of the boys) about being irresponsible, selfish, that he can buy stuff for himself but not his kids, stuff like that. My other choice was to just not say anything. I just have a hard time deciding when it is better to speak up or shut up. I know that he doesn't have a lot of money either, but for what he spends a day on cigarettes and lottery tickets he could buy each boy a small gift. That is what really irks me. I'm definitely not putting his name on anything. Any presents they get will be from Santa or me.
 
#8 ·
I'd not say anything (well, actually, I very well might so I'll rephrase)...I think it's better not to say anything.


At the end of the day, if he doesn't see it nothing you say is going to make him see it. Maybe one day he'll get it, maybe one day he won't; maybe one day he'll regret it, maybe he won't. If there's anything we can do to influnce the outcome one way or the other, talking and ragging isn't it.

There came a day in this journey for me when I said to myself: the time for me to 'point it out' has passed, and the day has come for him to see it for himself.

I'd do your own thing and maybe STBX seeing you do it will increase his capacity for being there and showing up for his kids (and quite possibly it won't
:.) Have a Merry Christmas!
 
#10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vypros View Post
Is he paying you child support?
because she should buy the kids presents with that money and label it 'from dad?'


I just put out gifts with her name or my name on it, I don't specify if it is from santa or me, but there is (thankfully) no dad in the picture.
That is in part because I am uncomfortable pretending santa is real, but she wants to believe, so I just don't label them.

In your situation, I would harp on him. Not in front of the kids (as you were saying you wouldn't). It is not fair for you to pick up the slack. Do your thing, and let him do his. I would tell him that I had no intention of getting the kids any gifts with his name attatched to it in anyway.

I don't think child support goes towards presents, unless he ups the amount for holidays. Child support goes towards food, shelter, bills. It is hard to sacrifice one of those and get extras from it.
He can quit smoking, or at least cut back. Cigarettes are expensive.
 
#11 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by alysonb View Post
So I asked STBX today if he was going to pitch in to get the boys presents or if he was going to buy his own presents for them. He got all huffy and said that he didn't have any money for presents (yet he bought himself a new $2000 laptop). He feels that I should get (and pay for) the presents myself and since they are from Santa it won't make a difference whether he pitches in or not (in other words, the boys won't question that he didn't buy them anything). I am so annoyed that here I am scrimping to make ends meet while he is buying new computer equipment, cigarettes, lottery tickets, etc. Should I make a big deal out of this or just drop it and add it to my secret list of why he is such a deadbeat?
It might also be that he was just yanking your chain and being a jerk, and that he will really get presents for them after throwing you into a tizzy about it.
That's why I'd drop it. He's not worth the energy.
 
#12 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by easy_goer View Post
I'd not say anything (well, actually, I very well might so I'll rephrase)...I think it's better not to say anything.


At the end of the day, if he doesn't see it nothing you say is going to make him see it. Maybe one day he'll get it, maybe one day he won't; maybe one day he'll regret it, maybe he won't. If there's anything we can do to influnce the outcome one way or the other, talking and ragging isn't it.

There came a day in this journey for me when I said to myself: the time for me to 'point it out' has passed, and the day has come for him to see it for himself.

I'd do your own thing and maybe STBX seeing you do it will increase his capacity for being there and showing up for his kids (and quite possibly it won't
:.) Have a Merry Christmas!
ITA
I am finding it best to "choose my battles" Things that relate to the kid's safety/health I point out, if not-then I let it ride. I am encourageing the kids to express their concerns to dad. They are 3.5 and 5.5 years old. if they come and express a hurt or frustration to me I say "You should share your thoughts with daddy next time you talk. He needs to know how you feel about that." He is much more likely to take their words to heart anyhow.
 
#13 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by BunnySlippers View Post
I don't think child support goes towards presents, unless he ups the amount for holidays. Child support goes towards food, shelter, bills. It is hard to sacrifice one of those and get extras from it.
He can quit smoking, or at least cut back. Cigarettes are expensive.
Ok, child support take into account ALL the needs and wants of a child. Yes, even things like christmas presents and clothes. I mean, the amount that they dictate is usually WAY more than the actual monthly cost to raise a kid. I mean, the only daily costs for kids are diapers and food and stuff like that. It doesn't cost 30% of your income to pay for food and diapers and stuff. There are other costs that include clothes and stuff like that that aren't recurring that are factored in that "extra" that is there.

I think that a prerequisite for receiving child support should be that the person receiving it take some financial class of some sort. The state just dictates an amount, YOU have got to take the forsight to set some aside for those other costs...including christmas. You realize that if you set aside even 30 dollars a month, you'd have $360 by the end of the year? I mean, that's not a GREAT Christmas, but it's a start.

And the old "if you have money for cigarettes" arguement is kind of crazy. I mean, how many of you who say that drink coffee? Pepsi? Everyone has vices. Just because you think one vice is wrong doesn't mean you don't waste money on similar vices. Chocolate? You don't need that stuff either and it's certainly not healthy.

And before anyone really jumps on me for this post, let me just say that I just dropped 300 dollars over and above the child support for my kids for Christmas. I'm not bitter or angry about it. I chose to do it. I want the best for my kids and I'll pay out more above child support if I have to to do so. But I still think that custodial parents need to have a little forsight for things like this when it comes to child support. You SHOULD be setting some of it aside for Christmas AND college. You really should.

That's the only point I was trying to make. I know it doesn't help for THIS Christmas, but it's a thought for next Christmas. Start today.
 
#14 ·
Ummmm...interesting thread. I guess I would say follow the spirit of christmas...if ex is "too broke" can you suggest that he take them on a special outing as his gift to them? Maybe he just doesn't see value in "things" but would agree to do something with them?

just a suggestion....

I wouldn't rag on him - it might make you feel better but it would injure your ability to co-parent well. I would just mention that you are very disappointed about his attitude and then suggestion the "outing" idea instead. You can't make your ex have a relationship with his kids if he doesn't want it...including buying them thoughtful gifts. All you can do is offer him the opportunity to be involved in their life - then you know you did what you could.

peace,
robyn
 
#15 ·
Just add it to the list of why he is a deadbeat. And put your name on the gifts that you buy for the boys. Will your ex be there for the gift opening?

This is one of those issues that is so tongue-bitingly difficult to deal with in the short term, but will show a person's true colors down the road. One of those issues where only when the DC are older and start to connect the dots do they realize the true character of each parent.
 
#16 ·
Well personally, I'm of the mindset that the earlier you seperate Xmas the better. My brother and I insisted my praents do Xmas together the first year post divorce....KNow what it meant? Heartbreak the next year. Eventually, you won't spend Xmas together, so I wouldn't this year *personally* It's just not a good habit to get the kids into IMO. Unless you see the whole big family...ANd I mean your someday partner, his someday partner and your entire extended families and any additional children celebrating together, its just going to lead to more problems later. I'm not advocating him not having a visit on Xmas, but make it his own. And if theres a babe involved thats too young, make it a short time that they are together alone. Its not about preventing his visit, its about not carrying the entire weight for your ex in an unhealthy way and setting your children up for an unrealistic picture of the future...From experience. Let him have seperate gift/Xmas time even if you are just in another room
 
#17 ·
I'm in no place to be giving advice right now probably, but my DD's dad has been MIA for a few months now. She asks for him all the time and it breaks my heart. I have a deadbeat list 20 miles long, but I do the best I can so that she has no idea. Sam is 4 and her dad almost always misses her bday, etc. He would miss his older kids' bdays too (from a previous marriage) unless I reminded him. I still buy their presents and my daughter's from him (they are 19 and 21). I guess I just feel like if he's not going to do it, it's better they just don't even know. I'd rather spare their feelings than make him look bad. It doesn't feel good to know that your dad didn't buy you a christmas present and it doesn't serve any justice to anyone. The only person usually hurt is the child. If dad cared enough to be hurt by them knowing, he'd probably give presents in the first place.
 
#18 ·
We don't have any formal separation/custody yet so there is no official child support. It is a really long story but in short he is a part time roommate with us until after Christmas. We decided that this way the boys could have a pleasant holiday. He is supposed to be paying half of everything and have half of the household responsibilities, but in reality I get practically nothing (he's paid the cable and water bills and gave me $125 for rent). I have full care of the kids (feeding, grocery shopping, taking to preschool, church and elsewhere, getting them to bed, playing with them, pretty much everything) and have to do all household chores myself. He sees them for about 15 minutes a day and has not expressed an interest for any more. It's really difficult for me, but it is helping me to get things better organized for the final split.

Anyway, back to the original problem, he'll be here for Christmas morning. It's fine with me. After all, my tripod is broken and it gives me someone to hold the camcorder
. I don't think we'll have a lot of presents, so I'll just put probably one or two from Santa and one from me. STBX gave me grief last year because I only bought the boys about 5 presents each, so if he has the audacity to comment this year I'll give it to him then.
 
#19 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vypros View Post
I think that a prerequisite for receiving child support should be that the person receiving it take some financial class of some sort. The state just dictates an amount, YOU have got to take the forsight to set some aside for those other costs...including christmas. You realize that if you set aside even 30 dollars a month, you'd have $360 by the end of the year? I mean, that's not a GREAT Christmas, but it's a start.

And the old "if you have money for cigarettes" arguement is kind of crazy. I mean, how many of you who say that drink coffee? Pepsi? Everyone has vices. Just because you think one vice is wrong doesn't mean you don't waste money on similar vices. Chocolate? You don't need that stuff either and it's certainly not healthy.

And before anyone really jumps on me for this post, let me just say that I just dropped 300 dollars over and above the child support for my kids for Christmas. I'm not bitter or angry about it. I chose to do it. I want the best for my kids and I'll pay out more above child support if I have to to do so. But I still think that custodial parents need to have a little forsight for things like this when it comes to child support. You SHOULD be setting some of it aside for Christmas AND college. You really should.

That's the only point I was trying to make. I know it doesn't help for THIS Christmas, but it's a thought for next Christmas. Start today.
I am glad that you love your kids enough to buy them presents. That's awesome. Too bad not every parent feels that way. in reference to you speaking of a financial class, when my ex and I split, he paid me $150 a month for three years until a judge insisted that amount be more fair, which ended up being $300. At the time I was trying to get my degree in college, I worked two jobs, and got zero assistance from the state. How far do you think $150 or even $300 went just in basic needs? We lived on macaroni and ramen for four freaking years because I couldn't afford to feed us anything else. There was no possibility to save that $30 or even $10 a month for christmas. I was juggling one bill with another tring to keep the utilities on and at least some food in the house all at the same time.Yet he was off jetting around the country, taking expensive vacations, dropping money on his girlfriends. If it weren't for my parents and toys for tots, my son would not have known what christmas or birthdays were about for the first five years of his life. That's not OK.
I think it is quite frankly pretty darn rude to assume that single mothers who are poor are that way because they can't budget their money. We carry the burden of providing financially to our kids just for life things ( rent, food, clothes, medical bills) I don't think it is wrong at all to expect that a NC parent contribute towards holidays and birthdays, especially if they are far better off than the custodial parent. These are expenses that are above and beyond the normal cost of living. And when the normal cost of living can be so out of control with kids, a little help now and then for the holidays sure does make a huge difference and I think any parent who has the ability to contribute towards these things has a moral obligation to do so.
 
#20 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by alysonb View Post
Yeah, I don't think I'd be comfortable telling him that he can't come over. I was thinking more along the lines of just really ragging on him (obviously not in front of the boys) about being irresponsible, selfish, that he can buy stuff for himself but not his kids, stuff like that. My other choice was to just not say anything. I just have a hard time deciding when it is better to speak up or shut up. I know that he doesn't have a lot of money either, but for what he spends a day on cigarettes and lottery tickets he could buy each boy a small gift. That is what really irks me. I'm definitely not putting his name on anything. Any presents they get will be from Santa or me.
Please go with what I bolded. It's not worth it, trust me. And chances are the kids ARE listening or will soon hear all about what "mommy said". And that's not fair to them. Sooner or later they will figure out the truth on their own. So just let it go for now.

FWIW- I left ex Thanksgiving weekend, just under 2 months after ds was born. That Christmas all his gifts were from santa/mom. He did see his paternal family around Christmas too. His grandparents and aunt had gifts for him. His "dad" didn't. Not my problem. Ex hasn't seen ds in 8 (?) months. Something like that. I doubt he'll see him this weekend when we go back to michigan (he hasn't seen him the last 2 times we've gone up there) so no Christmas gift from his "dad", again. Shocker. DS doesn't get birthday or christmas gifts from "dad". And yes, his "dad" makes more than I do (even after you factor in cs), lives with his parents, mooches off them, etc and he still can't get him a freaking $5 train (which ds would be thrilled with!). Oh well. DS with have plenty here (credit goes to DP. He went above and beyond). I have never written on the gifts that they are from "dad" or told ds they were from "dad", nor will I (unless ds decides to start calling DP "dad" and then we'll discuss it. Right now ds never uses the word "dad" and has no idea who his real "dad" is).
 
#21 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by wytchywoman View Post
I am glad that you love your kids enough to buy them presents. That's awesome. Too bad not every parent feels that way. in reference to you speaking of a financial class, when my ex and I split, he paid me $150 a month for three years until a judge insisted that amount be more fair, which ended up being $300. At the time I was trying to get my degree in college, I worked two jobs, and got zero assistance from the state. How far do you think $150 or even $300 went just in basic needs? We lived on macaroni and ramen for four freaking years because I couldn't afford to feed us anything else. There was no possibility to save that $30 or even $10 a month for christmas. I was juggling one bill with another tring to keep the utilities on and at least some food in the house all at the same time.Yet he was off jetting around the country, taking expensive vacations, dropping money on his girlfriends. If it weren't for my parents and toys for tots, my son would not have known what christmas or birthdays were about for the first five years of his life. That's not OK.
I think it is quite frankly pretty darn rude to assume that single mothers who are poor are that way because they can't budget their money. We carry the burden of providing financially to our kids just for life things ( rent, food, clothes, medical bills) I don't think it is wrong at all to expect that a NC parent contribute towards holidays and birthdays, especially if they are far better off than the custodial parent. These are expenses that are above and beyond the normal cost of living. And when the normal cost of living can be so out of control with kids, a little help now and then for the holidays sure does make a huge difference and I think any parent who has the ability to contribute towards these things has a moral obligation to do so.
God, I hear so much about these guys who get off so easy in court and only have to pay chump change while they "jet around the country". Why the heck couldn't something like that have happened to me instead of getting crippled to the point that I can't even afford my own place. I wish I could talk to the ex-husbands of some of the ladies here on this forum because, man, I could be living the high life.

lol

The way I see it, if the courts don't factor those expenses into child support, then they should. It's not the father's fault here, it's the court's fault. You have to look at it from HIS point of view. You are seperated from each other. Odds are that even if you remain amicable with each other, he still holds some sort of animosity towards the whole idea of seperation. He still works for the money he makes like everybody else and not having control over the money that supports his kids probably irks him just a bit. No it's not a "control" issue in the sense of he dictates to you how to spend it. But most of us would just like a say in how the money is spent. Personally, I KNOW my ex-wife is useless with money. I KNOW it. I KNOW that I could probably handle those funds way better than she could (even though I openly admit I have made some stupid financial decisions of my own) and it's kind of frustrating to watch money that could be saved for college and christmas andt hings like that get pitched down the drain.

Hey, I'm speaking from my own vantage point. I'm not trying to say that the ladies here are bad with money...the point I am trying to make (which I think I did a poor job with that last paragraph) is that we'd like a little input on how the money is dispersed so that the child can get the maximum benefit. Which is why I suggest mandatory financial classes for custodial parents.

But personally, I think that if child support isn't already about splitting the costs of raising a child right down the middle (with things like Christmas and extraneous expenses estimated and taken into account), then it SHOULD be. A father should NEVER have to pay over and above what he doles out in child support. If the need is above what it's set, then the COURTS should start taking those things into account. Although I think they already do.

The trouble is that girls tend to think that child support should cover ALL the child's expenses. And it doesn't work that way. When you divorce, you are essentially saying that you want to each live on your own. It's YOUR responsibility to make a living (just as it is HIS responsibility to make HIS living) and the "help" should be in the form of child expenses.

But that's just for a perfect world.

I don't mean to come across bitter, because I think for the most part I have accepted my own situation. But I do have gripes about the current system because I think so much money is just being literally WASTED when a little planning could maximize the benefit for the child.
 
#22 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vypros View Post
A father should NEVER have to pay over and above what he doles out in child support.
In that case- neither should the mother. Want to start a poll here and see exactly how many here spend more than "their half" towards the kids expenses? I bet you're smart enough to predict what the results will be
 
#23 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
In that case- neither should the mother. Want to start a poll here and see exactly how many here spend more than "their half" towards the kids expenses? I bet you're smart enough to predict what the results will be

Who cares? it's not about who the parent of the year award goes to.

It should be about making sure that child support:

1. Is sufficient
2. Is managed properly

Things like christmas really ought to be factored into child support. It should. It's going to be tough to split it right down the middle by estimating, but meh, I think they overestimate the costs of raising a child anyways.

But I digress.
 
#24 ·
I said nothing about a parent of the year award so don't know where that came in.

Just curious why it's okay that the mother (or the custodial parent) spends more than their "share" towards the child but it's not okay to expect the father (or the non-custodial parent) to chip in a little extra every now and then? I don't get it. What's the difference?
 
#25 ·
No comment on the child support discussion.

We don't do Santa but DD is getting presents from me and (I assume) presents from her dad. He makes about 6 times as much as me and luckily he asked for ideas on gifts. I didn't buy the gifts from me with CS, I spent money I had made myself. It felt great.

IBTL
 
#26 ·
:

I like to read threads like this as i am relatively new to these types of issues and don't always know what is/isn't reasonable.

my x is deployed right now. he wanted to send me $$ on top of the c/s and have me buy the kids presents with that, and/or whatever me and my dh were gonna buy for them as well, but he wanted the gifts to be labeled as "from mama and daddy"
I guess he didn't think my dh was gonna be at all involved in our xmas--?!? I told him that the kids understand we're not together (they're 8 and 5), so why would we still handle xmas shopping together?? Instead I sent him a link-list of "wants" that the kids compiled, and he bought things off that and had them sent to our house. I have in mind to wrap them and say they're from their daddy. My dh and I also bought them presents, and we will tell them who everything is from.
Sound reasonable?


Last year's xmas was horrid. I didn't have my own place, couldn't get a job, and there was no c/s in place at that time, so I was forced to do xmas with my x, give presents with his money, even have dinner with his family. But I digress...
 
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