"Obedience"

[Calidris]

(note that it is in quotation marks )

I don't want unquestioning, blind obedience from my DD, but basic compliance with reasonable requests would be nice.

DD is almost 4, and she just will not listen to me. Today (for example) we are cleaning (big Christmas clean) the house, the floors are very dusty, we are working in the bedroom, the room is FULL of junk, boxes, odds and ends being sorted etc. DD comes along. I tell her not to go into the room (I am outside the door, not inside the room) - in she goes. I get her out, alter she races in. I say "please don't jump on the beds, your feet are very dusty from the floor and it will make the bed dusty". She starts jumping on the bed : (She was about to jump on when I spoke, not that my mentioning it inspired her).
There are many, many of these occurrences every day. Little things mostly, but infuriating to me. A few days ago she found a whistle asked, "is it ok if I blow this whistle?" I say, "Please don't do that now, I'm feeling kinda stressed and the noise will be very annoying" She immediately blows the damn whistle. Why ask in that case?

I guess what I am getting at in my roundabout way is - how do I get her to listen to me? She is old enough to understand. I think it is developmentally appropriate at this age to expect these things. And somewhere at the back of my mind there is the feeling that I have spoiled her. Sometimes DP and I say to each other, in exasperation, that she is making an excellent case for corporal punishment (which neither of us intend to use!).

So really, it is 2 things. How do I get her to listen to me. and What do I do when she does what I have said not to. What sort of consequence?

[canadiyank]

I find it helpful to firm up my language. Teaching "polite words" and manners is extremely appropriate, but I find at times my kids need firmer language. Normally I say, "Please "x"" or whatnot, but my language gets progressively firmer and if we're in a season of "doing the opposite of what mama says," I avoid "please" altogether, instead saying something like, "You need to stop jumping on the bed." I also find that I tend to overexplain (it's dusty, blah blah) instead of focusing on what needs to happen. I really struggle with overexplaining but I try to keep it simple, make the statement, and explain after they've complied, or if they've stopped the action yet asked why.

So it might look something like this: "You need to stop jumping on the bed. Get down, please." (Or dropping the "please" if the situation warrants firmness). They keep jumping, "You need to stop." I walk over, grab jumping child, and place on floor. Screeching ensues. "I understand you're upset; your feet are dirty and need to stay on the floor. You may jump in the living room and/or if you take your shoes off."

Whistle situation, "Not now, I need quiet. You may blow it downstairs/later/tomorrow." They blow whistle anyways. "That hurts my head and I feel upset you blew it when I told you not to. You need to find something else to do." If they keep blowing I would put the whistle away until later. I rarely take toys away, but if things are getting irritating or they're being thrown, they go up for a couple hrs.

So, for me what has helped with compliance is a) clear, firm, yet kind direction, and b) immediate follow-through with words and actions on my part.

Does that help?

[LilyGrace]

I made an observation once with my kids when they were little - when I gave a direction, it usually took a little time for it to sink into the brain fully. During that 10-30 second pause they would continue doing the opposite.

I got around this by touching, talking, listening. Keep it short and simple, as few words as possible (and I agree with the PP about a time and a place for everything, and I don't see this as a time to ask a favor by using the word "please" You can be respectful and give a direction.)
Something like : You may blow the whistle in your bedroom or even shorter if it's not an answer : Put your shoes on the rack. Touch her to get her attention first so you know she's listening, and then the most important part - ask her to repeat it back to you. Repeating seems to cut down on that delay I mentioned above and speed up the comprehension process.
Heck, I still use it every once in a while with my 8yo on particularly bad days.

[Calidris]

Thanks for the responses
I was particularly frustrated that day :

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by Calidris

(, "is it ok if I blow this whistle?" I say, "Please don't do that now, I'm feeling kinda stressed and the noise will be very annoying" She immediately blows the damn whistle. Why ask in that case?

That did sound pretty optional. It was basically "I would prefer you didn't, but you can in you want".

Next time just say "No" Then follow up with "but, you can in your room if you close the door" Or "No" "but thank you for asking me first" <-be all impressed, because it's pretty nice that she did ask first.

Just say what you mean, mean what you say, and if you are at all ambiguous, don't say anything at all.

[laoxinat]

It can help to use the object as the subject of your request, instead of making your dc the subject. E.g. "The bed is not for jumping on", "Whistling is hurting my ears". Anything that starts off with a "You" or even an implied one is asking for trouble. It may sound too much like a challenge that some kids just can't resist. What you have here is a power struggle. The good news is that your dc is very normal. The frustrating news is that as the adult, you will have to break the cycle. The book How to Talk So Kids Will Listen by Faber and Maslisch is an excellent resource. HTH!!!!

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by Calidris

I guess what I am getting at in my roundabout way is - how do I get her to listen to me? She is old enough to understand. I think it is developmentally appropriate at this age to expect these things. And somewhere at the back of my mind there is the feeling that I have spoiled her.

I've had the same thoughts! It's like, geez, there has to be a way to be respectful and considerate of ds's desires and feelings, AND also have him understand that *sometimes* he just has to do as I say, goshdarnit! And I definitely work with him those times to make it as agreeable to him as possible (for example, when we have to leave a friend's house. I try to come up with a way to leave that would be fun for ds- we could leave like trains, we could race, etc. That part is up to him, but we have to leave.)
I've wondered if I should be more strict, so he doesn't think that he's entitled to every whim, but I KNOW that's not the answer. That's not what I want for my relationship with ds.

I don't think consequences for not obeying are the answer (even though I've been known to say stupid things like "if you don't leave now, we're not coming back next time." yeah, it doesn't work...lol). I imagine that would be more likely to create a divide, and not connection.
I think, something like "I asked you to x, and you didn't. Y was the consequence to me. Next time I expect you to do x." Where Y would be the affect on ME- it was a really stressful shopping trip because he wouldn't leave willingly, I had to pick up the toys myself because he wouldn't help, the bed is all dusty and it needs washed, etc.

I think that sometimes, small related consequences might be warranted in order to stop the behavior in the first place (not as a consequence for not obeying, if that makes sense). So, something like "if you won't stay off the bed, I'm going to shut the bedroom door and we'll go do something else." Then try to engage dc in something else.

Also, the whistle blowing thing reminded me of something- I am very sensitive to noises, and I get pretty stressed with loud noises. That's one thing that ds almost always 'complies' with. He respects my need for quiet, and if noise is bothering me, he will go to another room, or stop making the noise, on my request. So...just got me thinking...