I read the sticky, still dealing with tantrums

[JamesMama]

I realize it's kind of just par for the course and we gotta deal...but is there ANYTHING I can do with my (almost) 3 y/o??

I've tried talking to him, I've tried holding him and validating his feelings, I've tried letting him vent out his feelings and then talking to him about it, I've tried preventing them, I've tried ignoring him...nothing is working and it's getting WORSE.

He threw a 10 minute, throwing stuff, down on the floor flailing screaming mess because there was something on the sofa and he decided he wanted to sit in that exact spot, I tried moving said item and he STILL screamed, I finally had to put him in the other room because he picked up a car and threw it and narrowly missed hitting his baby sister who was sitting in the swing while I dealt with him (and no, I don't think this is acting out because of the baby, he's been throwing these fits since long before the baby was born).

Today at the store he screamed almost the whole way through the store because he didn't want me to get the DVD I selected as a Christmas gift for my step-dad. I don't even know WHY! I picked it up, read the description, called my mom. Decided to get it and he screamed and cried that he wanted it and wanted it to be put back...I explained that it was a Christmas present for G and he said NO! and the basically just followed behind me screaming (sorry, I'm not going to give in to his fits, he has to learn that he doesn't get his way all the time...and no I can't just come back for the DVD later because we weren't at our local WM, we were 50 miles away and I might not get back up to the city before Christmas, I don't know if they have it at my local WM)

It's just really stupid stuff like this, and it turns into the biggest drawn out drama. I'd let him throw his fit, turn up the TV and wait for him to finish, but we do have to be mindful of neighbors since we're in an apartment and we have to be mindful of the baby because she gets woken up and that can't be good for her to get woken up all the time by James screaming over something stupid.

Please, I have to stop these fits, he is impossible...I'm just getting so frustrated with him because every single day it's something and he has to throw a monster tantrum. It's to the point where I don't even want to be around him because I know no matter WHAT I do or say he's going to throw a fit and I'm, honestly, sick to death of dealing with them. His screaming gives me a headache, I'm sick of the baby not sleeping during the day, getting overtired and not sleeping overnight (hence the reason I'm up at 2:00am)...I love James, he's generally a good kid, but these fits have GOT to stop.

[Mommiska]

Oh, gosh - that sounds so difficult. Hugs to you, Mama - 3 years old can be a difficult age.

I remember having these kinds of fits at age 3 with both of my older daughters. They would be in tears/tantrums over absolutely nothing. I remember one day holding my sobbing daughter while looking over her head at my dh and mouthing that I had no idea what was wrong with her or what to do about it.

It was pretty horrendous, but I will say that with both girls, one day it seemed to just stop on its own. I suspect that this age is just a difficult one, with lots of frustrations - but once the child meets whatever developmental milestone they are working towards at the moment (and it isn't always obvious what it is!), things get better on their own.

In the meantime - have you read How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk? It's a good place to start, if only to give you insight into how our responses sound to our children - what is comforting and what isn't.

Their suggestions won't always work just the way we want them to, but I do think they build a good foundation for our children - even they are still screaming 'No' about the DVD while we are sympathizing with them ('You don't want to buy this DVD for Grandad, so you are upset that I'm not putting it back), at least they realize that you do hear them, even if they can't always get their own way. Sometimes these things take time to sink in for some kids, at some stages in their lives, I guess.

If you haven't read the 'How to Talk' book, I'd definitely start there - it will give you lots of ideas to try with your ds. And if they don't work immediately the way you want them to, keep going with them - they really do help in the long run. Your ds just may be going through a difficult stage at the moment...

Hang in there - you are doing a great job!

[monkey's mom]

Yes, totally agree with the above poster.

Just changing our conversations can have such a profound impact. Because I don't think we even realize how much our kids hear, "No." "We can't..." "Not right now..." etc. That can lead to lots of frustration--especially for people who are in the THICK of "I CAN DO IT!!" developmentally.

So like Mommiska said, just validating, "You don't want this DVD? Is there another DVD you had in mind?" or even a Playful Parenting approach like fulfilling the wish "in fantasy," "If you could get G ANY DVD in whole wide world, what would you get him?" And maybe even turn that into, "And what if YOU could get any DVD in the whole wide world....what would you pick?" And then you could talk about your pick, and DVDs that you guys have loved and should watch again, or holiday movies that you can pull out when you get home, etc. And by that point you're halfway through the store!

The other thing that I've found really helpful when my kids are losing it (or about to lose it) is to ask, "How can I help you?" in my nicest most sympathetic voice. And even, "I'm here. I'll help you. We can do this together. There, there. I'm right here. I got you." and just sort of softly cooing reassuring stuff like that. It helps me stay calm and realize that just being there is enough--I can't fix it, I can't will it to stop.....I just can be there helping and supporting.

Hang in there!

[ann_of_loxley]

I find that sticky is great and it is the best piece of advice I have ever read (as its really the only thing I have needed to read as I needed some major help with it and everything I was told to do just didnt feel right!)...

But I think the first and most important thing to remember here...is that that advice is not given to make tantrums just go away. So if you set out going on that advice thinking that...then I think you will be very disapointed. I think that article was written to give you (as the parent) advice on how to 'deal' with tantrums appropriatly in a way that respects your child, their feelings and how to help them through the 'tantrum years' and make it out emotionally healthy on the other side...Not to just get the tantrums done and over with. I dont think they will just go away at that age (2,3,4...)...but they will eventually die down (I dont know many adults who throw tantrums! lol)...So as my favourite motto goes...'This too shall pass!' hehe...

Also...I know somtimes we dont know why our children are upset/frustrated/angry (the world surely looks different from their level I am certain!)...and we may think their 'reasons' unreasonable and stupid or nothing at all!...But I think its important to not think this...Because to them is it not stupid or unreasonable or nothing at all...It is something and it is serious and very resonable and everything in all the world! And though we may not say to our children 'oh thats a stupid reason to get upset!'...etc... I am quite certain that our children can sense from us if we are being honest with them or 'real' and 'understanding' (or not)...and if I 'fakely' (is that word? lol) sympathised with my son...he is going to sense this and know that I am not ...whats the word? ...'leggit'? And that isnt going to help him either.

Hang in there hun - its hard and emotionally draining. And I know you said you read it...but read it again and again and once a day when you get the chance!...I find it refreshing and I found that I had to read it (and still do) quite often to finally get it and really put it into action! Of course my son still has tantrums (hes only 26 months old!)...But we can deal with them appropriatly whilst still respecting eachother and I know my son will get through this phase emotionally healthy...as thats what is most important to me!

Its excellent advice it just takes a lot of understanding and patience.

And even for ourselfs I like what monkeys mom above has said:

I'm here. I'll help you. We can do this together. There, there. I'm right here. I got you." and just sort of softly cooing reassuring stuff like that. It helps me stay calm and realize that just being there is enough--I can't fix it, I can't will it to stop.....I just can be there helping and supporting.

Because we musnt forget our own feelings in the process! We have them too! hehe And even talking to our children about how we feel so they can see we have feelings and we get angry and we get frustrated (and in the process dont throw tantrums about it) can all help in the end too!

[LilyGrace]

I have a friend who is a behavioral therapist and she wrote a great piece on tantrums, breaking them down into 5 stages and noting when the child was most receptive to intervention.

If you like, Jamesmama, I can pm it to you.

[JamesMama]

Thanks mama's.

If it weren't for the baby and the neighbors (we've already gotten our walls and floor banged on) I wouldn't mind, but he's so loud he wakes Aldria up and pisses off the neighbors (yes, the vast majority are childless)

Everyone in my family keeps harping on me that he shouldn't be acting this way. That I *HAVE* to do something about it, that my brothers and I never acted like that... It's such a pain. I've tried telling them it's normal development and they insist it's not because my brother and I or DH and his siblings never behaved like that...it's because I don't discipline him. And this comes from my MOM! And she's completely anti-spanking!

We can't really go into another room because it doesn't help noise wise, we live in a very small (650sq/ft) apartment so he'll still wake/keep up the baby. He'll still piss off the neighbors.

*sigh*

[Mommiska]

I just thought of another suggestion from 'How to Talk' that might help...

They suggest that when a child is tantruming/very upset about something, offer to let them show you how mad they are.

You say something along the lines of, 'You are so mad that toy was in your way on the sofa. You wanted to sit down on the sofa without anything there. Here - show me how mad you are about the toy.'

And hand him a piece of paper with a crayon and encourage him to 'show' you his anger by writing on the paper. Perhaps give him the idea about what to do by starting off yourself (draw a big, dark, zig-zag line and ask, 'Is this how angry you are? Can you show me yourself?').

Might be worth a try - even if it doesn't work everytime, anything to keep down on the noise (especially when you have less than understanding neighbours ).

[laoxinat]

I agree with a PP-tantrums are not necessarily an evil to be stopped. I know this may not sound very helpful, but I'm gonna suggest you ....embrace the tantrum. Really BE there with him when he starts to melt down. See the tantrum as something he NEEDS to do. Yes, I know it is really hard when you have no support. But this is your chance to be his advocate. Have you read Raising Our Chidren, Raising Ourselves? I am finding it enormously helpful.
Children are very smart. I would venture to say they are also psychic, and I am completely serious. Kids don't recognize boundaries, because they are artificial. They don't know they *can't* do it, so they do it anyway . So when you are feeling the pressure, it is highly likely he is also feeling it. Only he doesn't have the words or the emotional wherewithal to deal with it. It is possible he needs/wants more structure. Some kids do. But they won't ask for it (in so many words) and will in fact, reject it...for a time. I am mostly talking about eating and sleeping routines. Not to be rigid, but predictable. Some kiddos feel very out of sorts when they don't know when lunch is. Come to think of it, a lot of adults feel the same way! I'm not saying this is THE problem, but as a suggestion of something to try. IME, escalation is a clue that a child's boundaries are too ill-defined to them. That doesn't mean you are not giving proper boundaries, just that they may not be getting communicated in a way he can recognize. Is your temperament wildly different from his? This can also be a source of great conflict. Mary Kurcinka's book Raising Your Spirited Chid is a nice treatment of temperament and the common issues that arise from 'mismatches'.
HTH!!!