Can't put the baby down! - or - Toddler versus the baby...

[tsfairy]

DS1 (28mo) is constantly trying to hurt his 3mo brother - hitting, biting, pinching, pressing on his face, you name it. If I'm holding the baby, he'll act like he's going to give him a sweet kiss or hug, and instead will end up biting his face, or throttling him and refusing to let go. I'm trying really hard not to be reactive, since I think it's partially a grab for attention. But it's really difficult not to react sometimes. I try giving DS1 more positive attention, redirecting his efforts at rough play (a la playful parenting), praising "gentle" touches... but I'm really at a loss.

Yesterday he walked up while the baby was nursing and whacked him on the head with a book. Today it was a dive stick. The other day we were all playing on the floor and he stopped what he was doing to bite his brother on the face.

Needless to say I'm not comfortable putting baby down anywhere while DS1 is awake. He's actually pretty ok with hanging out in his bouncy seat or on a blanket on the floor when I need a few minutes to do something, like go to the bathroom or get something out of the oven. But DS1 will attack. So I have to be holding baby constantly, which means DS1 stays jealous...

Baby doesn't like being worn so it's doubly frustrating since I can't seem to get anything done. Baby also wants to nurse every 20 min or so and won't nap anywhere but in my arms...

Help.

[Surfacing]

I have a 2.5 y.o. and one in the oven. : Sorry I have no magical answers and am hoping to learn something here for future reference.

It does occur to me - that I wonder if you could put the babe down a bit and deliberately hold your older one at that time....give some time on your lap reading or giving special attention, or enlisting some "help" in the kitchen (involving him in "washing" dishes, washing lettuce, stirring, measuring, etc.). Just some thoughts here. Hope someone else has some more suggestions. Maybe just a little of this would be helpful in giving him some of the attention he craves.

[tsfairy]

Originally Posted by Emese'sMom

I have a 2.5 y.o. and one in the oven. : Sorry I have no magical answers and am hoping to learn something here for future reference.

It does occur to me - that I wonder if you could put the babe down a bit and deliberately hold your older one at that time....give some time on your lap reading or giving special attention, or enlisting some "help" in the kitchen (involving him in "washing" dishes, washing lettuce, stirring, measuring, etc.). Just some thoughts here. Hope someone else has some more suggestions. Maybe just a little of this would be helpful in giving him some of the attention he craves.

Hmmm that's a good thought. I've been putting the babe on the floor sometimes while I hold DS1 and read to him or watch a movie or something. Of course it's not strictly 1 on 1 b/c I have to give babe attention, but it does seem to help a bit.

[moodymaximus]

DD was 31 months when DS was born and initially we had the same issues. reading Hold on to your Kids by Gordon Neufeld helped a lot. it is not a how to book, adn it is about older children, but he had one point that said "collect before you correct"--i.e. get your child in a positive state before letting them know what issues you have with their behaviour. before, whenever DD would try to hurt DS i'd tell her something like "gentle hands. hitting is not acceptable". didn't help. then i started trying to collect first: i'd pick her up right away, cuddle with her for a min or two, and then tell her what i wanted to tell her. this helped within days. and still works great when i remember to do it.

[MCsMom]

I could have written this post myself. I am at the end of my rope here. I NEVER put the baby down anymore. The last time I tried to do it, everyone seemed in such a good mood, she scratched so hard she drew blood and the mark is still on DS's face now for a week :-(

The only think I have found to help, even a little bit, is to do my absolute best to cuddle and hold DD too. This means I end up with a baby in one arm and a toddler in the other and I can do absolutly nothing, but at least no one is trying to hurt eachother. Most of the time.

We also have a two story house with the bedrooms upstairs and I have started putting the baby upstairs if I think I am going to manage to put him down for a while. This way I can run interference with DD before she gets to him. My 2 year old seems to just start hitting him for no reason what so ever.

'collect before you correct' sounds promising as well. What would you suggest when the older child has already got one hit in before you were able to stop them so that now the baby is also crying? I have been cuddling with the baby only, would you suggest maybe trying to cuddle with both of them at the same time? Let the baby cry and cuddle the toddler? (this just seems backwards to me) I am such at a loss of what to do. I just want it to end.

[Eben'sMama]

: Same exact boat over here, too...

[jul511riv]

lmao over here, mamas. I wish I could say after 1 yr this gets easier...and it does, cause by then babe will start beating on the bully!

So hard. Get someone to watch baby for 15 min while taking older baby on a walk...1 on 1 time.

might help. might not.



:

[TinyMama]

Hi Mamas--
I only have one right now, but I'm jumping in on the strength of my experiences with my two cousins, who are 14 months apart. I spent a LOOOOOONG weekend watching them last spring, and I had the same problem--the 17mo would not leave the 3mo alone.

When I called my mom to chat/complain, she said to me: "Make up your mind that it is absolutely unacceptable for the baby to be hurt. The most basic aspect of your job is keeping the infant's body safe. It is equally unacceptable for the toddler to learn that she can touch her sister this way."

With this in mind, I became ridiculously proactive. Every time the toddler even THOUGHT about the baby, I was there. I was practically a redirection superhero. I know what you're thinking...it was only a weekend. True. But by Sunday night, I felt that things were going a little bit better.

My point is, it was my mindset that helped me the most--I kept repeating, "It is unacceptable for the baby to be hurt" and everything I did stemmed from that firm stance.

Good luck! Who knows...I may be posting this myself in a year...

[tsfairy]

Originally Posted by TinyMama

My point is, it was my mindset that helped me the most--I kept repeating, "It is unacceptable for the baby to be hurt" and everything I did stemmed from that firm stance.

See this is the thing. It IS unacceptable for the baby to be hurt. My mama bear kicks in and I will do ANYTHING to protect him. But the problem is, my mama bear also wants to protect and nurture his big brother. I think a mom at an API meeting I attended long ago put it well: "I can't stand to see anyone hurt my baby, even if it's my other baby doing the hurting." (paraphrasing) So when baby gets hurt, my first instinct is to stop the hurting (which unfortunately is often by yelling because just talking doesn't stop it fast enough and my hands are usually full) and make the baby feel better, which creates further jealousy for DS1.

We've been having a better time the last few days. I've been trying to make sure I give DS1 a lot of attention. Not necessarily one-on-one, but it seems to be helping a little. I've also been trying really hard not to yell at DS, for any reason. I've been keeping in mind the collect and correct thing, but I don't think I have it down.

So hard. Get someone to watch baby for 15 min while taking older baby on a walk...1 on 1 time.

For some reason, baby (who loves Daddy normally!) will not let Daddy, or anyone else, hold him for more than say, 22 seconds before he begins crying hysterically. This is new, so I dunno what is going on. But it sure makes life a little more difficult.

Oh but I just thought of something. The past two nights, DS1 has attached himself to DH. They've been cuddling and watching videos on YouTube (he asks for trains, Lilo and Stitch, and Mickey Mouse allll day LOL.) I wonder if this extra attention, even though it's not from me, has been making the difference the past couple of days.

[BunnySlippers]

I dont think just one on one with the older sibling is the right balance. They are siblings and will need to see that they can co-exist and be loved together. Not sperate.
I do think some one on one is great though.
Also, maybe the children need an outlet for some pent up energy?
Do they get outside everyday for a run and play in fresh air?
You can all go for a walk together.

[jul511riv]

playgroups, getting outside, that is all great, but I know when my little one was REALLY little, and it was winter, I didn't feel much like going ANYWHERE. I was TIRED.

Sometimes you just need a hug and a cup o hot chocolate and to be told that it WILL GET BETTER and you are DOING A GREAT JOB.

WHich you are. Of course.

hugs.

[moodymaximus]

Originally Posted by MCsMom

'collect before you correct' sounds promising as well. What would you suggest when the older child has already got one hit in before you were able to stop them so that now the baby is also crying? I have been cuddling with the baby only, would you suggest maybe trying to cuddle with both of them at the same time? Let the baby cry and cuddle the toddler? (this just seems backwards to me) I am such at a loss of what to do. I just want it to end.

i would cuddle with both, and if the baby is not crying / upset, i'd cuddle the toddler only. what neufeld says, and i agree, is that humans are not rats on which behaviorism is based. they don't need an immediate correction to understand that they've done wrong and to change their behaviour. so basically not correcting right away, not announcing right away that they did wrong, doesn't mean that they would not learn. toddlers with baby siblings are hitting because they are feeling bad / ingored and don't know a better way to communicate. they do know that hitting is wrong.

after a bit of cuddling i'd mention very briefly that the baby was upset / hurt, without blaming the toddler. and that cuddling makes one feel better, and show gentle hands, how to touch the baby. i'd offer plenty of opportunities to touch and cuddle the baby too, when the toddler is in a good mood.

it worked miracles for me, literally.

s

[moodymaximus]

Originally Posted by TinyMama

Hi Mamas--
I only have one right now, but I'm jumping in on the strength of my experiences with my two cousins, who are 14 months apart. I spent a LOOOOOONG weekend watching them last spring, and I had the same problem--the 17mo would not leave the 3mo alone.

When I called my mom to chat/complain, she said to me: "Make up your mind that it is absolutely unacceptable for the baby to be hurt. The most basic aspect of your job is keeping the infant's body safe. It is equally unacceptable for the toddler to learn that she can touch her sister this way."

With this in mind, I became ridiculously proactive. Every time the toddler even THOUGHT about the baby, I was there. I was practically a redirection superhero. I know what you're thinking...it was only a weekend. True. But by Sunday night, I felt that things were going a little bit better.

My point is, it was my mindset that helped me the most--I kept repeating, "It is unacceptable for the baby to be hurt" and everything I did stemmed from that firm stance.

Good luck! Who knows...I may be posting this myself in a year...

for me it was a very difficult balance between her not hurting the baby and yet making they bond well. i feel that constant redirecting, rather than helping to be gentle with the baby could interfere with bonding. but i guess this depends on the age and the personality. DD would feel she wasn't welcomed around the baby, and it wasn't my goal. BUT i think it is a great approach when you are baby-sitting!