My husband is dead-set against me - Page 4

[becoming]

Natalie, I posted a thread almost exactly like yours about six months ago. My husband was absolutely dead-set on circing our little boy. The mamas here convinced me that I had to be the one to protect my son and place the value of his precious, perfect little body above the feelings of a grown man.

My son is 5 months old and is intact. And you know what? My husband still doesn't like it. He doesn't want to talk about it. He's probably still mad at me. And I've come to the point now where I DON'T CARE if he's mad about it. I did what was right for my defenseless child, and DH is a big boy--he'll get over it. And if he doesn't, oh well. I am so, so glad I didn't give in. Every time I change my baby's diaper, I am so proud of myself for standing my ground and keeping his little body perfect, the way nature intended it to be.

It sounds like you have a happy marriage--your DH is not going to divorce you over this. He will move on and learn to live with it. Just don't sign the consent form. Protect your baby.

Hugs to you, mama. I know it's not easy.

[becoming]

I also wanted to tell you what happened in my situation when we were in the hospital after having the baby. We hadn't talked at all about circumcision since our last argument, which was about a month before baby's birth, so the issue was still unresolved (in DH's mind, anyway) when we went in to have the baby. When they came to get him to do the circ (because around here, they just assume you're having it done), I just said, "We're not having him circ'ed." When the doctor left the room, DH tried to start up with me about why we needed to do it, etc., and I started bawling and pretty much having a full-on panic attack. DH said, "If it really means that much to you, we won't do it." Little did he know, I already knew we weren't doing it. But I let him think he "let" me make the decision. Later on, our pediatrician came in and basically praised us for not doing it, telling us that it was a completely cosmetic/unnecessary procedure. I think that made DH feel a *little* better, but not much. I mentioned something about it when LO was a month or so old, and DH said, "YOU'RE going to be the one to tell him why he's different from all his friends." That's the only time we've talked about it since then. I'm sure he's still mad about it, but the issue just doesn't come up anymore. He changes the baby's diapers and never says a word about it.

I hope for the same reaction from your DH. Maybe when they actually come in to get that sweet little newborn baby to hurt him, he will soften up and come to your side a little bit. I honestly think that's what made my DH relent--actually being there with our brand new, perfect little baby and thinking about him being taken away to be cut on.

[RMM1117]

Good for you for sticking to your guns!!!!

[Yulia_R]

Natalie, have you received the info I have emailed you yesterday?

Show him the video of the actual procedure, the pen and teller video. you (without your dh) take a look at the link 10 top ways circ'd sex hurts women and see if you find something that is relavent to your sex life (if so, show it to your dh).
explain him the history of circ (prevention of masturbation). show him the sensitivity studies (published in british magazine of urology). etc.

please keep up updated, we'll try to help as much as we can,
yulia.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by becoming

Natalie, I posted a thread almost exactly like yours about six months ago. My husband was absolutely dead-set on circing our little boy. The mamas here convinced me that I had to be the one to protect my son and place the value of his precious, perfect little body above the feelings of a grown man.

My son is 5 months old and is intact. And you know what? My husband still doesn't like it. He doesn't want to talk about it. He's probably still mad at me. And I've come to the point now where I DON'T CARE if he's mad about it. I did what was right for my defenseless child, and DH is a big boy--he'll get over it. And if he doesn't, oh well. I am so, so glad I didn't give in. Every time I change my baby's diaper, I am so proud of myself for standing my ground and keeping his little body perfect, the way nature intended it to be.

[Friday13th]

I just thought I'd chime in and suggest talking to your Bradley instructor ahead of time. Ours is very strongly anti-circ and she discusses the pro's and con's in at least a few classes. It might help him to get someone else's perspective.

Also, we're in MA and I don't know anyone, personally, that has circ'd their sons. Plus, my husband (raised in CT) is intact, as are several of his friends.

Good luck.

[phatchristy]

Your DH needs to respect your instincts and the ultimate role you have as your child's protector. He is not looking at this from an open minded perspective, and not a complete perspective either. He will never know what it is like to have a fully functioning penis (and YES sadly the intact penis does work quite differently than a circumcised one...we know this from experience as well as massive discussion and research--do a search for that on this forum).

If he is like my DH, he will not want to talk about details of circumcision. He won't want to make it personal or even want to know more details about what he has lost. The kind of emotion that knowledge can bring a man is of the intensity that likely he has never experienced before.

The most important thing here is that you protect your son. Your DH may need his time to mull over things...to let the ideas sink in. Once your son is here, he sees how completely NORMAL he looks he may feel differently. The whole pregnancy is more real in general for the woman as she's the one going through all the changes, once the baby is on the outside he will be "real" to him in a way closer to what you're experiencing.

You've already gotten a lot of information from people here, so I'll appeal to the emotional side of you. I know a woman who did not want to circ. Arguments, disagreements....she caved shortly after the birth (I'm sure exhaustion didn't help either). He also had a complication (infection/bleeding/some serious ABX had to be used--they HOPE that he will have a normal sex life as he has a lot of scarring). And, of course, breastfeeding didn't work...the baby did fine before the circ...but then refused to afterwards, and that plus the complications things never resumed. And, now she's a single mom...less than a year after the birth they separated and are now divorced. That the circ issue was really an amplification of other issues that they had in the relationship, and the fact that he didn't respect her as he should have.

She said that with every diaper change, every time that she sees him she has a feeling like she's being stabbed in the heart. She has so much emotional pain, I wouldn't wish that on ANYONE. She says it is the absolute greatest regret that she has in her life, that if she could do it over that she would rather have them take a piece of herself if she had that choice.

I've met several moms who have regretted it...one who was even in her 70s!!!! She spoke to me about circ and how they did it to her son, and how she saw it and was horrified (her husband was intact...this was a high circ area and they did it). You could see the pain in her eyes...it's one of those things that people DO NOT get over. They might bury the pain, but it's still fresh to them when it comes out and they think about it.

On the flip side, I once had an older mom give me a hug and tell me that keeping a son whole is one of the things you will be proudest of in your life.

And, when you read that sentence again it strikes you as ridiculous...that people even have a choice to cut off healthy, highly sensitive, sexual tissue for cosmetic reasons. And, don't BOTH boys and girls deserve an intact body?

[hollytheteacher]

"We live in New England (which has some of the highest circ rates in the country)"

Are you serious?! I live in VT and i would considered it one of the LOWEST circ rates.

[Demeter9]

My DH wantd to circ. I did not. I ADMANTLY did not.

We argued. He used the usual litany of excuses that don't mean squat.

I told him it wasn't his call. It isn't his penis. That if it is THAT important to our son, our son could get it done later on in his life. No harm, no foul.

Guess what? My upset angry DH now believes that circumcision is ridiculous, and tortourous and shouldn't be done.

I think that the argument from me that something had been stolen from him, has slowly permeated his psyche.

Now we are working on getting him to the point of vaginas are never to be make out to seem yucky, and penises aren't things of violence. And that we are not going to have those ideas set into our children's heads. I think that discussion really wierded him out.....but I think it is slowly winding its way thorugh his brain too.

[KBecks]

My heart goes out to you because I know how challenging it is to be at odds with your husband. My 2 boys are both circ'd largely because I was afraid of the fits my DH would throw (and I'm not talking violence, but the pouting and fussing, etc.) if I didn't go along with what he wanted. And I know the stress of trying to discuss it when you're not getting any cooperation and your spouse shuts down on you.

All I can say is I wish with my whole heart that I had just taken responsibility and let my husband fuss and moan and be a baby about it for a few weeks or months until he accepted it. I should have known that he would get over it, perhaps not without stress, but much less stress than I feel now over knowing I have permanently damaged my boys' sex organs. My husband probably would have freaked over penis care, etc. but I could have and should have managed.

I hope you don't appease your husband. He is in the wrong, if you don't agree to a yes, then anything that is not a yes from both of you is automatically a no and you should not circ.

Your husband will adapt.

I'll be thinking of you. I hope you have more strength than I did, and I hope you think more of your son than your husband. It's his body.

ETA: What might help you make this decision alone is to realize that your husband is too emotional about this issue to have any rational clarity and evaluation of the facts. It's almost like he's not capable of making a logical decision because he's so personally affected by circ. It may be near impossible for him to ever admit the truth about circ, and so the issue is better left in your hands, because you come to the issue without those emotional obstacles and you can see it all clearly.

Hugs,
Karen

[calngavinsmom]

Hiya Momma, I'm sorry to hear you are going through this (unfortunately all that common) fight.

My dh didn't fight me much, I was lucky. He basically just said "as long as he's not the only one" we didn't need to do it. Thank goodness for the internet cuz I was able to find out that not only was circ not the majority anymore in my neck of the woods, it was the complete opposite!

It was however, years later that he admitted to me that he was still nervous about the decision not to circ for quite a while after our first was born. I never knew!

So maybe that is part of it for your dh too.....fear of the unknown. Maybe after he gets to know his perfect son and knows firsthand that his little foreskin is not going to spontaniously combust or anything, he will feel better?

I know with my dh at least, the proof was in the pudding

Good luck to you!
Tara

[Getz]

I could have written your post 2 years ago. My DH refused to watch the videos, refused to read any of my information, refused to even discuss it! He wanted it done and that was that. He even went as far as to say if he knew I was anti-circ he wouldn't have married me! (I didn't know the truth about circumcision when we got married).

For me it was a matter of needs versus wants. There was no NEED for my son to be circumcised and I had a NEED to protect him from unecessary medical procedure. My husband only WANTED him circumcised.

I had to the use "Over my Dead Body". But, my son is INTACT!!

Two years later I know my DH is still upset that DS is intact. I know he resents me for not allowing it. But, I don't care. The needs of my children will always come before the wants of my husband.

I honestly thought DH would get used to it and actually realize that it wasn't necessary. But I was wrong. I would rather be wrong about that than regret circumcising my son.

[homewithtwinsmama]

I let my husband have the decision. I have regretted it ever since they brought my poor boy back in a shock induced sleep that lasted 8 hours on his second day of life. I told my dh that we would NEVER circ another boy and he kept fighting me about it. Course by then I had switched to homebirth and had a midwife who didn't do them, a ped who didn't believe in it and I said "how exactly are you going to do this, rip the child from my breast and steal out the door to an OB to demand a circ?" He kind of gave up after that. And then we had five girls, so it wasn't an issue he ever had to actually face...

[gridley13]

You have received a lot of great advice already.. I just wanted to lend my support and encourage you to not back down!! You seem to understand your need to protect your baby.

Has he read the thread of those who circ'd and regretted it? My sil had a thread just like yours several months ago and it got left on the screen accidentally.. her dh read it and it made him change his mind when he saw the links and saw how horrified people were that he wanted to cut part of his baby up. She didn't do that on purpose, but it worked!!

[laoxinat]

Oh, mama! I am soooo sorry DH is being such a butt! What I say now is what I said 20 years ago when I refused to circ my ds-Cleanliness?!? if that's the reason, we better get REAL busy and start circing all our girls, cuz we are MUCH juicier than boys!!! This reasoning seems to have a much more thoughtful effect on folks. It does a bit of an end-run around male circ, too. To me, the bottom line is that the decision belongs to the owner of said penis. I would stop arguing or having any discussion whatsoever about it, do not sign anything, and perhaps have an attorney write something up that goes in your chart now, NOT when you are admitted- way too much potential for confusion. I have to agree w/pps, this would be a deal breaker to me. It would be like finding out my dh *used* to be a rapist. Don't mean to be harsh, but anyone willing to put a child thru circ can't be trusted with that child.

[Galatea]

My dh pitched a fit and I just told him I would divorce him and not put his name on the birth certificate. This showed him how serious I was, which got him to read some literature about it. Now he is a huge intactivist and really spreads the word.

In the end, your dh is an adult and is capable of working through his emotions. And you don't have to do his feeling work for him. Give him the chance to work through a difficult issue by himself, without your softening it. His emotions do not have to be tattooed on your son's body.

In the meantime, I'd stop talking about it. Just know that it will never happen, and give him the space to think by himself.

[earthmama369]

Originally Posted by lunarmagic

We live in New England (which has some of the highest circ rates in the country) so almost everyone he knows is circed.

Did he tell you that? Because it's false. The coasts -- East and West -- have the lowest circ rates and the Midwest has the highest. New England has a pretty low circ rate, actually. Most of the little boys I know are intact and more than a few of the older boys who were circumcised have younger brothers who are intact.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Statistics: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/
As of 2004 this site lists the circ rates as follows:
Northeast Region: 66.4%
North Central Region: 79.5%
Southern Region: 58.5%
Western Region: 31.7%

Statistics: http://www.cirp.org/library/statisti...taterates2004/
This one has states listed (not all of the unfortunatly)
Arkansas 67%
Arizona 25
California 21
Colorado 63
Florida 39
Hawaii 82
Iowa 82
Kentucky 85
Maine 72
Massachusetts 67
Michigan 85
Minnesota 77
Missouri 78
Nebraska 81
Nevada 14
New Hampshire 76
New Jersey 67
New York 59
North Carolina 58
Oregon 30
Rhode Island 74
South Carolina 83
Utah 53
Vermont 68
Washington 26
West Virginia 83
Wisconsin 83


Statistics: http://www.circs.org/reviews/rates/usa.html
This is from back in 99
National65.3
NorthEast 65.4
MidWest 81.4
South 64.1
West 36.7


2005 Stats: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/3/prweb217505.htm

March 14, 2005 -- The U.S. circumcision rate declined 11.4% over two years, according to figures just released by the National Center for Health Statistics, from 63.1% in 2001 to 55.9% in 2003, following a steady, twenty-five year decline. At this rate, in just 12 years, the US will join other English-speaking countries in abandoning circumcision.

Statistics: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/bollinger2003/

[Mountaingirl3]

Wanted to add that our ds is intact, 2 1/2 with never a penis problem. We don't even wash with soap. Just let him play in the tub! He looks so right to me that I forget that circ exists anymore.

My circ'd dh started out like yours, but I had the benefit of this being our third child (first two were girls). By the time our first dd was a month old, he had fallen in love. He was almost as protective and compassionate as I was. You realize that this baby is a whole tiny real person, and you can't imagine putting them through loss and agony because of your own hang-ups.

If your dh is a fairly sensitive and open guy (sounds like yes), he'll feel all that and he'll change. Then, maybe, he'll even be grateful to you for going to bat for his son.

[lunarmagic]

I wish I could respond to everyone tonight, but I am dead tired and have more work to do... but I wanted to add a little insight that I had while thinking about this yesterday...

DH is very adamant that our son will get teased for not being circed. And I thought long and hard on this, because it really is a ridiculous argument. But you know what I realized? He's afraid of HIMSELF being teased. His entire (all-male) family are very vocally pro-circ. When the topic came up at Thanksgiving the menfolk all stared at me like I was from Mars and repeated a lot of what DH has been saying - that it's GROSS and so disgusting looking, etc. Lightbulb went off. If our son isn't circed, DH is never going to hear the end of it.

Not that this changes anything at all, but it does give me insight in why he reacts like he does. I'll just tell him to blame it on me. I have no issues being the weird one.... I already get that a LOT. (I am most definitely a black sheep around here among his family! Computer geek, earthy-crunchy, etc...) Heck he can even blame it on me being Canadian. (I don't know the circ stats for Canada and it's certainly not *why* I believe what I do, but the whole family gets a big kick out of blaming my oddities on me being Canadian, lol.)

The more I think about it, the more I think that simply not bringing it up and refusing to talk about it unless he actually wants to *talk* and not get angry and sulky is the way to go. Every time I bring up the circ issue he gets defensive because he feels I'm being pushy and trying to convince him. (Well, I am trying to convince him.) So I am no longer trying to *convince* him. I tried, it failed, it causes too much stress. My mind is made up, he knows where I stand, he knows I am not budging. If *he* wants to have a conversation about it and try to change *my* mind I'm open to discussion (so I can calmly explain the facts to him). I think I've realized I'm not going to get his blessing on this (at least not until afterwards, if ever), at best I'm going to get him silently aquiescing - at worst I'll have to put my foot down and refuse to give permission and seriously tick him off. Either way... it's not getting done, and I am at peace with that. I hope he can find his own peace with it.