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The exorcist....can that really happen? - Page 3

post #41 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila the Honey View Post
It's hard to imagine a scenario where a psychiatrist is going to say, "No, that man claiming to be Beelzebub over there is not psychotic, it must be a possession."

How would that work?
Our synod has psychiatrists that are faithful members who can do an evaluation- people who are well versed in both physical and supernatural causes for illness.
post #42 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage_SS View Post
Yes, I've been hit, spit on, sat on, touched, breathed on, walked through, walked into, kicked and yelled at.
wha? by demons or possessed people or what (or who)?
post #43 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangebird View Post
wha? by demons or possessed people or what (or who)?
by spirits. I have only ever met a couple of demons, minor ones. Not a big deal really. But some spirits have a lot of energy and can be seen, heard and felt.

Thankfully I have never witnessed anyone possessed. *shudders* Probably because I'm just not easy to overcome.
post #44 of 70
To me The Exorcist is one of the scariest movies ever made. It really freaks me out to think that it could actually happen. Yikes!
post #45 of 70
I just checked my calendar and was relieved to see that we are going on 2008 not 1508. Cause going by this thread, one would never know. Demonic possession? Are you freaking kidding me?

Demons are metaphors.

Regarding actually seeing levitations and such with your own eyes at church or wherever - ever heard of mass hysteria? Susceptible, suggestible people can and will see what they are told they will see. It is frightening how our minds can be controlled by evil *people* who wish to manipulate us.
post #46 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
I just checked my calendar and was relieved to see that we are going on 2008 not 1508. Cause going by this thread, one would never know. Demonic possession? Are you freaking kidding me?

Demons are metaphors.

If you are a Christian - demonic possession is something you accept as part of your religion. In fact imany religions describe similar expeirences.The calendar year year has nothing to do with it, and seeing that this is a forum in Spirituality section I'm not understanding how you can make fun of someone's beliefs (whether they agree with yours, or not). There is something to be said for tolerance and respect even on the topics you disagree or find silly. "No, I do not believe in demonic possession" is an honest answer without unnecessary sarcasm and judgement.

As far as where I stand on this issue, I am a Christian, but not very good one :... I don't read the bible literaly, and question things that a "good Christian" wouldn't question. For reasons of my own (that do not include observing levitation, or anything of the sort) I tend to believe that it is real, very scary, and extremely rare event.
post #47 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
I just checked my calendar and was relieved to see that we are going on 2008 not 1508. Cause going by this thread, one would never know. Demonic possession? Are you freaking kidding me?

Demons are metaphors.

Regarding actually seeing levitations and such with your own eyes at church or wherever - ever heard of mass hysteria? Susceptible, suggestible people can and will see what they are told they will see. It is frightening how our minds can be controlled by evil *people* who wish to manipulate us.
This is fantastic! LOL... so because you've never seen any paranormal acitivity it just doesn't exist? Whew.. I'm so relieved life works this way.
Its one thing to say you don't believe in something, but quite another to suggest that anyone who does believe in the possibility of paranormal acitvity are being manipluated to "believe" for the purpose of what?

Demons were used like tools by many religions organizations over the centuries. I can understand where your statement comes from, but I don't agree with the basic idea of it.

You can believe what you'd like, and I can believe what I'd like. Its the greatest thing about being a human, that and coffee.
post #48 of 70
Um, I really don't think demonic possession has anything to do with religion. I am not a religious person, but I do believe it exists. There are many things that we simply cannot explain. Religion tries, science tries, but we're still in the dark on so many levels.

Suzywan, your post was, at best, insulting. You seem to make the assumption that you're talking to a bunch of ignorant, suggestible, religious zealots. You shouldn't.
post #49 of 70
I only have second hand knowledge, and that is enough for me. Dh has seen and participated in exorcisms (though I'm pretty sure they didn't look anything like the movies). Just like we here think most of it is mental illness, he tends to think most of what we call mental illness has at least some part of it based in spiritual issues.

The other story I've always heard was a pastor who is a dear friend of ours. At the time this happened, he didnt really even believe in demon possession. But one day a woman came in for counselling with serious, and he didn't seem to be able to help her so he started to pray for her before sending her to a mental-health counselor. But when he started praying for her, she fell on the floor convulsing, etc, all that dramatic stuff, and the end of it was, she got up and walked away completely delivered. He believed it could happen, after that.
post #50 of 70
btw, suzywan, I do agree with you in part. The glitzy, glamorous, made-for-tv "healings" and "deliverances" are aweful. Some of the most popular claims have been proven fraudulent--by conservative Christian folks who also believe in "spiritual warfare" but can't stand stuff that's just for show.

I have been physically pushed by a preacher attempting to make me "fall out" in some sort of spiritual daze, but I didn't hit the floor. I know there's hysteria and frenzy and emotion and falsehoods. However, my dh and the pastor I mentioned are not hysterical or prone to emotional nuttiness, and I believe them.
post #51 of 70
I am absolutely not required to believe in demonic possession becasue I am a Christian and I have no idea were you would get the idea that I would have to.

So much damage has been done to innocent people due to these beliefs. And they can never be proven. It's dangerous thinking.

And if you (general) can prove it - there's this great foundation that will give you *1 million dollars*! The James Randi Foundation - look it up - they would love to hear from you!

And, of course, ignorance is subjective. My perspective is that belief in demonic possession is ignorant - not stupid, silly or otherwise. It's ignorant and dangerous, IMO.
post #52 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
I am absolutely not required to believe in demonic possession becasue I am a Christian and I have no idea were you would get the idea that I would have to.
...
And, of course, ignorance is subjective. My perspective is that belief in demonic possession is ignorant - not stupid, silly or otherwise. It's ignorant and dangerous, IMO.
Sarcastic reply and talk of calendars and "freaking kidding me" on a geniune question is rude and disrespectful, regardless of your beliefs on the topic.

Why would you believe in demonic posession if you are Christian? Because according to your religion Jesus Christ healed demonic posession, and many stories in the bible revolve around it. You can interprete it any way you want, but putting down someone who believes literal interpretation of their religious text is intolerant. Your personal interpretation of the bible is not the only one, I'm actually surprised that you don't understand why a Christian would believe in demonic possession.

No one here is suggesting to reverse to Mediaval practices, do they? And by the way, if we are to talk about dangers, well then intolerance of others' beliefs and thinking is much more dangerous and prevalent in today's world.
post #53 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
[COLOR="DarkRed"No one here is suggesting to reverse to Mediaval practices, do they? And by the way, if we are to talk about dangers, well then intolerance of others' beliefs and thinking is much more dangerous and prevalent in today's world.[/COLOR]
Exorcism is a medieval practice - it is a primitive practice.

I cannot stop anyone from believing what they do, and I have no intention of trying. I am just stating my opinion. I am a little desensitized to sarcasm, so sorry about that.

I am not intolerant of *people*, but I am of what I believe are dangerous, damaging beliefs. However, this discussion belongs in RS, not here.
post #54 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
I am absolutely not required to believe in demonic possession becasue I am a Christian and I have no idea were you would get the idea that I would have to.

So much damage has been done to innocent people due to these beliefs. And they can never be proven. It's dangerous thinking.

And if you (general) can prove it - there's this great foundation that will give you *1 million dollars*! The James Randi Foundation - look it up - they would love to hear from you!

And, of course, ignorance is subjective. My perspective is that belief in demonic possession is ignorant - not stupid, silly or otherwise. It's ignorant and dangerous, IMO.
Point taken, but not well made.

True, it is dangerous that anyone could take advantage of someone else based on their beliefs. Maybe your beef should be with the people who do this?

As far as proving it goes... I'm not sure anyone in their right mind would attempt such a thing. Inviting something like that is far more dangerous than some preacher and his theatrics.
post #55 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by shroomama View Post
Point taken, but not well made.
And see, I think it was perfectly made - tomayto, tomahto.

It's circular thinking, to say "just be angry at those who use demonic possession to manipulate others" instead of those who believe in it. Those who believe in it help perpetuate a culture where it is taken seriously enough that a mentally ill person could be boondoggled into an exorcism. An exorcism they think could take the place of real evidence-based therapy and medication. If I do recall correctly, a young child recently (in the past 5 years or so) died during an exorcism. And for what?
post #56 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
And see, I think it was perfectly made - tomayto, tomahto.

It's circular thinking, to say "just be angry at those who use demonic possession to manipulate others" instead of those who believe in it. Those who believe in it help perpetuate a culture where it is taken seriously enough that a mentally ill person could be boondoggled into an exorcism. An exorcism they think could take the place of real evidence-based therapy and medication. If I do recall correctly, a young child recently (in the past 5 years or so) died during an exorcism. And for what?
I see what you're saying, but wiping out the belief entirely is unreasonable. While it is an extreme comparison, I feel what you're saying would be like holding a rape victim responsible for the actions of the attacker. That sort of mental manipulation is something that the perpetrator alone should be held accountable for.
Yes, people do have the responsibility to themselves and anyone they care for to be educated and not just assume that mental illness is demonic possession. But what if it isn't mental illness? Like I said, there are many things that religion, nor science can explain. I speak from personal experience and, frankly, have never had anyone say that my beliefs are "ignorant".
I do remember the story of the child who died during an "exorcism". It was tragic. Unfortunately, there are many children who meet an untimely end because of the beliefs their caretakers hold. That's across the board and awful every single time.
post #57 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by shroomama View Post
I see what you're saying, but wiping out the belief entirely is unreasonable. While it is an extreme comparison, I feel what you're saying would be like holding a rape victim responsible for the actions of the attacker. That sort of mental manipulation is something that the perpetrator alone should be held accountable for.
Yes, people do have the responsibility to themselves and anyone they care for to be educated and not just assume that mental illness is demonic possession. But what if it isn't mental illness? Like I said, there are many things that religion, nor science can explain. I speak from personal experience and, frankly, have never had anyone say that my beliefs are "ignorant".
I do remember the story of the child who died during an "exorcism". It was tragic. Unfortunately, there are many children who meet an untimely end because of the beliefs their caretakers hold. That's across the board and awful every single time.
I am not at all blaming the victim. But fair enough, we'll agree to disagree
post #58 of 70
Right on mama. Can you tell I love a good debate?
post #59 of 70
Me too, but the Spirituality forum is a bad place to have them
post #60 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by shroomama View Post
IMO, there are only certain religions who will acknowledge it for what it really is. Just like some won't acknowledge reincarnation. Regardless of how much proof and documentation there is, a religion isn't going to change it's doctrine to accommodate something that they decide doesn't fit.
I understand. I haven't had time to research possession in Islam but Islam does say it can happen. I think Judaism does too. But I've never heard of actual Muslim or Jewish cases like I have from within the Catholic church. Just an observation, that's all.

I think I believe in demonic possession , but that said, I have seen a case of someone speaking in tongues being cured by a homeopathic remedy. I think true possession is rare, but a state similar to possession can be entered into more easily.
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