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"Is he satisfied?" UPDATE post #22  

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
My 33 weeker DS is 5.5 months old (3.5 months corrected age). He's been having some medical issues and we had to see an immunologist last week.

I EP for him- between prematurity, NICU stay, tounge tie, reflux and a 3 month-long ear infection, he's never been able to nurse at the breast well. When he's feeling ok, he tries a few times a day, and I always offer. But, outside of the formula he got in the NICU (they do cultures on breast milk before they give it, so they won't give pumped BM for 72 hours!!) and 2 or 3 bottles while my supply adjusted after he came home, he's been on 100% mama's milk. I had to give him spoonfuls of pureed sweet potatoes with the worst of the antibiotics (without something heavy in his stomach, he vomited the drugs immediately), but we have not 'started solids', as, IMO, he's gestationally still too young.

He was born at 5 lbs, 0.2 oz. He lost a little over a pound last month when we were battling the infection in both ears, but he's now 15 lbs, 1 oz. Even on the unadjusted height/weight charts, he's in the 25th percentile, I think (much higher for his corrected age). He's rolly-polly and has a buddha belly. He takes anywhere from 23-32 oz of EBM a day.

The immunologist GRILLED me about what I feed him. She asked me "what do you supplment with?" literally FIVE TIMES. I kept telling her nothing, he gets my milk. She asked if we'd started solids, I said no. "What do you supplement with?" WTH??? Then she said, "Do you feel like he's satisfied with what you give him?"

I looked down at DS and said, "Does he look like he goes hungry? He's a pig."

This has been bothering me so much. I am exhausted from working FT, exclusively pumping, and dealing with a chronically sick baby. My DH is about to accept a job offer 1500 miles from where we live, so we're about to have to pack up and move with a 6 month old. So I'm sensitive about things, especially when I put SO much energy into pumping, KWIM? I also understand that food allergies could certainly be relevant to her assessment, which is why I told her I eliminated dairy and soy (DS showed sensitivity to both). But how on earth could she look at my fat babe- who looks like a term 5 monther- and wonder if he's satisfied?

What do you all think? I have a follow up appointment on January 7th with her, and I'm seriously considering telling her that her tone was offensive (she's a solo practitioner, so I can't complain to anyone else there).

Would you have been offended? It's bad enough that my baby, who gets all that mama's milk, is sick ALL THE TIME, and I have to listen to every single person at work telling me BF is supposed to keep them from getting sick. Duh, I know. But for the immunologist to give me flack?
post #2 of 27
You are doing a fabulous job! Your dedication to your son's health is evident. If I were you, I WOULD be offended and would tell the doctor. However, I would also use it as an opportunity for education. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here and assuming her opinions come from lack of knowledge. Enlighten her!
post #3 of 27
I am sorry that the immunologist is such an ignorant poop.

I think you should say something, especially since you are leaving. Perhaps print out some information for her as well, she obviously needs to be educated. I mean, he has tripled his birth weight in less than six months, holy cow!

I also want to for being able to pump enough to feed him. I pumped for a couple of weeks (bad advice from a ped and an OB regarding tongue tie, low weight gain and nipple damage). I had to supplement because I couldn't satisfy DD (it all worked out in the end after finding a good doctor who fixed the tongue tie and she is a bfing toddler now). Pumping all the time is a pain, and kudos to you for doing that for your child.

As far as the whole bfing and getting sick, I know I have had issues with that as well. DD is in daycare, and was getting ear infections every other month for a while. I beat myself up about it (I mean, breastmilk is supposed to help prevent that right?). His being sick has to do with other things, and think of how worse it would be if he wasn't being breastfed.

Good for you!
post #4 of 27
1) You are awsome!

2) You have every right to be PO'ed at that doctor! You are working hard to give him your breastmilk, and offering the breast when he is up to it. The allergist should know that the recommendation is exclusive breastmilk until 6 months of age. And she should be aware that her line of questioning - no matter how 'innocent' - is not breastfeeding friendly.

But you seem super busy - so if it is less stress for you to let it go, let it go. But if the mamma lion in you is roaring - go ahead and write her a letter or prepare a talk for your next appointment. You'll be helping other breastfeeding moms and babies. I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback and support here.

post #5 of 27
You are doing wonderfully, please pat yourself on the back. Your baby's immunologist is ignorant, and needs to go read the AAP's statement on breastfeeding http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;115/2/496
Your baby is thriving, there is no reason for supplementation of anything!
post #6 of 27
I do think you should tell her you were offended. Explain to her everything you explained to us -- you pump ALL the time, etc etc, and that you felt as though she was demeaning the effort you put into feeding your child. My guess would be that she doesn't understand the amount of time and energy you expend just to feed your baby.
post #7 of 27
I think she was completely rude. She definitely needs to work on her people skills. Either that, or become a prosecutor, with how she was grilling you.
post #8 of 27
I would just let it go and chalk it up to cultural-driven ignorance.

15lbs doesn't sound small to me. I don't pay much attention to the charts anyway. I figure as long as DS is growing, I am happy with it.
post #9 of 27
I would consider that you may be the first instance of exclusive breastfeeding that the immunologist has come across. It may be disbelief that such a thing exists. Especially with sick children (and healthy children don't see immunologists) an exclusively pumping FT working mom is an amazement.

Pat yourself on the back here - you've probably just blown the doctor away so much that he can't believe how much you've accomplished!
post #10 of 27


Sounds to me like you are doing a terrific job!
post #11 of 27
That irks me. I EP'd 18 months for my dd. I KNOW how hard it is. Your pump is your second baby. You are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.
post #12 of 27
Oooh how frustrating! I think it's obvious that you are doing a great job, and are very dedicated to giving your baby the best food possible. And wow, 15 lbs! That's awesome! My full-term 8lb at birth boy wasn't even 15lbs at that age. Sounds like she just doesn't know any better. Perhaps (sadly) she doesn't come across many babies who are getting ONLY breastmilk, so it sounds like she almost doesn't believe it. Which is so very sad....

I don't think it would hurt to say anything, but if you have enough on your plate and don't want to deal with it I wouldn't blame you! Either way don't let it get you down - you're doing an awesome job!
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equuskia View Post
I think she was completely rude. She definitely needs to work on her people skills. Either that, or become a prosecutor, with how she was grilling you.
:
post #14 of 27
I'm not sure if I would go back. At least moving means you get a new immunologist who is hopefully more tactful and respectful of all the work you are doing. Try to let it roll off of you, you are doing a great thing for your little one!!!!
post #15 of 27
We recently went through the hell of a NICU stay with my DD and they were SO not breastfeeding friendly there! DD was term, but suffered brain damage due to lack of oxygen during the delivery. So she's 100% tube-fed and I've been pumping exclusively (except, like you, they gave formula first-grrrr). In the hospital, after her gtube surgery, she started to lose weight. I tried to tell the doctor that the nurses were spilling the milk out of the tube (several times, they actually soaked her mattress and wouldn't replace the milk), but they wouldn't listen. *Obviously* the problem was with my milk, not the incompetence of the nurses. : They insisted we use a milk fortifier (glorified term for formula dumped in my breastmilk) but I absolutely refused. Instead I pumped hindmilk, which they sent to the lab to get tested. Turns out it had 30 cal per ounce which is 3 more than the fortifier would have given her. She STILL was having trouble gaining. But they determined that she was stable enough to send home. As soon as she got home, she was gaining weight like crazy and I was even able to just pump regularly, instead of doing hindmilk. They WOULD NOT listen to me. My milk was JUST FINE. The problem was not the milk! What she needed was to be in an environment where she could really rest and heal. Not where the nurses were practically starving her. She was there for 7 1/2 weeks and it was just hell. They were so brain-washed, they actually didn't believe that breastmilk was adequate nutrition. They pushed fortifier, vitamins, the whole nine yards. Every preemie in there was on neosure even if the moms were pumping. They just supplemented the formula with breastmilk.

She has her first neonatal clinic jan 3rd and I'm not looking forward to what they are going to say. Even though she's gaining fine, I just know they are going to pull the same stupid crap. I'm going to laugh in their faces if they tell me to put pureed baby food in her tube at 4 months, which, according to my nurse, does happen sometimes.

You have a right to be upset. I would flat out tell the doctor that it is incredibly offensive to try to say your milk isn't adequate. In my situation, I already feel really crappy because I feel like my body didn't do a good job birthing my child, that it nearly pushes me over the edge to even suggest that my milk isn't good enough.

ETA: My baby also gets sick a lot. She gets every bug that goes around. If anyone says anything about how bf'ing is supposed to prevent that, just say, "Well it HELPS and imagine how sick he'd be if he wasn't getting my milk! He'd probably be in and out of the hospital constantly!" People tend to think that bf'ing is supposed to keep them 100% healthy and obviously that is not the case, especially with compromised babies. But it is still a world of difference from formula!
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post

ETA: My baby also gets sick a lot. She gets every bug that goes around. If anyone says anything about how bf'ing is supposed to prevent that, just say, "Well it HELPS and imagine how sick he'd be if he wasn't getting my milk! He'd probably be in and out of the hospital constantly!" People tend to think that bf'ing is supposed to keep them 100% healthy and obviously that is not the case, especially with compromised babies. But it is still a world of difference from formula!
We tell people that breastfeeding lowers the risk of babies getting sick or as sick as they might otherwise get, but that even breastfed babies do get sick. I see the special formula babies at work and it makes me so sad to know that their lives might be better if their mothers had breastfed. Especially the brand new babies, but you can't say anything to the mother because you can't run the risk of offending someone. A lot of us at work talk about how it would be nice to have WIC require a prescription for all formulas, but that will never happen. And one of the nutritionists said that sadly the docs would just write for whatever formula the mom asked for.

Anna
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da WIC Lady View Post
We tell people that breastfeeding lowers the risk of babies getting sick or as sick as they might otherwise get, but that even breastfed babies do get sick. I see the special formula babies at work and it makes me so sad to know that their lives might be better if their mothers had breastfed. Especially the brand new babies, but you can't say anything to the mother because you can't run the risk of offending someone. A lot of us at work talk about how it would be nice to have WIC require a prescription for all formulas, but that will never happen. And one of the nutritionists said that sadly the docs would just write for whatever formula the mom asked for.

Anna
Thank you, both of you!

I have a very sickly baby, and I've faced many of the same "comments". To the point that I'm starting to believe them. I even asked the ped just last week when Connor was sick, yet again...I said "I'm beginning to feel jipped here...he's exclusively breastfed, he's not in daycare, we don't even hardly take him out in public anymore, yet he's MORE sick than any other baby I know--even formula babies IN DAYCARE!"

It's exceedingly frustrating!

Connor is pretty underweight, he's 16-12 at almost 10 months old (was full term at 8-4) (got as high as 17-4 a few weeks ago, but then yet another illness struck) He's had feeding issues since birth, very nearly required a g-tube. I get asked by drs often why he isn't eating more solids...the same dr that just got on to me about his weight! So let me get this straight...we have a baby who is very susceptible to illness, PLUS he's underweight, yet you want me to replace good nutritionally laden breastmilk calories with solid foods??? In fact the ped specifically wanted me to put him on rice cereal "for the iron and vit D which he really needs, especially since he's breastfeeding." ????? If we were really concerned about his iron and vit D, I'd find NATURAL sources of those minerals, not artificial vitamins in rice cereal that is otherwise empty calories.

Uggh!

So, as a response to the immunologist...(who maybe was just asking you repeatedly because she was flabbergasted? Like someone else said, surely she doesn't see many--if any--breastfed babies) if you want a non-confrontational approach, you can try something like "I noted that last time we were here you asked me repeatedly if I was supplementing. I'm not, nor do I plan to, but I was wondering why you were asking? Do you recommend it? Can you provide me with some literature on how supplementing at this young an age is better than exclusive breastmilk?" That puts the onus on her to prove to you why she thinks supplementing is better. If that's truly what she believes. It could be like I said she was just caught off guard that you're NOT supplementing. KWIM?

Good luck...and make sure to tell us how it goes at the next appt!
post #18 of 27
Congratulations on being such a wonderful and responsible mother.

I never take stuff like that too seriously. MDs are not taught much about BF in medical school, and a lot of them are just plain stupid on the subject. I am not sure if arguing will even help, but you might point out that you are following AAP recommendations, and that her attitude seemed uninformed and could be extremely discouraging to a less well informed mother.
post #19 of 27
I've wanted to post here for awhile but not had time 'til today.

My eldest had severe reflux, multiple food allergies, and weight gain issues (was hospitalized for it and we came very close to a surgical consult).

We never worked with an immunologist but we have worked with an allergist - pediatric. He didn't see Ina 'til she was 3 1/2 years old (we managed with the Ped 'til then but she still hasn't outgrown her egg allergy despite total avoidance, thus the Ped Allergist referral).

He was very pro-bf and said it was best for infants and children with food allergies. So, not all of the specialists are ill-informed.

If I were you, and you have another appointment with her, I'd try to bring some good scientific citations about
*Breastfeeding and infant allergies
*The dangers of supplementing a breastfed infant
*AFP, AAP, WHO recommendations for exclusive breastfeeding duration in all infants
*CDC bf infant weight/height charts and where your little one lands on those charts

And tell her that while you realize that many mothers are given inadequate information and inadequate support about how breastfeeding works -- you are certain that as an immunologist, she would want her clients to feel supported in making this vital choice for their children. That you are certain she didn't intend to sound dubious and unsupportive of breastfeeding, but that her questions came across that way to you.

[You could even heighten things by saying you were shocked because she was the first HCP that you've had treat bf this way, the rest have been so supportive even if they weren't knowledgeable (I think that peer pressure works)].

Then give her the citations/handouts and tell her that if she has questions about them she can ask you (or make a referral to a local bf support group or etc.) ---

Above all, approach her and the conversation as a COLLABORATIVE situation. You are an educated, knowledgeable woman and so is she. You apparently have information that she lacks, and as an intelligent, informed woman she should want that information which you are being so kind as to provide.



If you aren't going to be seeing her again and have a good relationship with the HCP(s) who made the referral TO her, you may want to tell them about the conversation you had with her and how it made you feel, what your concerns are and that you would like it if they could talk to her about it (or bear it in mind when making other referrals for breastfeeding mothers).

And/or you could send her a letter with the citations and resources .... I don't know whether she'd read them or not. I think some MDs are very much arrogant about their titles and educations ... but others aren't. It depends on what they're like, in terms of how the doctor will respond to constructive criticism etc.

My Ped would totally take information/feedback like this from me, in stride. She has applied some of the stuff we've discussed in re: breastfeeding and elimination diets, reflux, etc. with other patients. I'd like to think she's not entirely unique.
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boyzmama View Post
Thank you, both of you!


So, as a response to the immunologist...(who maybe was just asking you repeatedly because she was flabbergasted? Like someone else said, surely she doesn't see many--if any--breastfed babies) if you want a non-confrontational approach, you can try something like "I noted that last time we were here you asked me repeatedly if I was supplementing. I'm not, nor do I plan to, but I was wondering why you were asking? Do you recommend it? Can you provide me with some literature on how supplementing at this young an age is better than exclusive breastmilk?" That puts the onus on her to prove to you why she thinks supplementing is better. If that's truly what she believes. It could be like I said she was just caught off guard that you're NOT supplementing. KWIM?
Excellent suggestion!

To the OP, you're doing such a great job - I pumped for a few weeks while each of my babes got sorted out and it was incredibly hard. My hat's off to you for your dedication and persistence - there aren't a lot of babies that lucky out there. Hopefully, the move goes smoothly and the new digs improve everyone's well-being.
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Mothering › Forums › Breastfeeding › Lactivism › "Is he satisfied?" UPDATE post #22