Disturbing at Hoboken hospital (NJ)

[babylove2007]

I posted my original thread here about my experience (and being drained by DS's special feeding need, no I never got around to sending the letter):

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=763182

The hospital is in Hoboken, NJ (the only one in town).

But now I heard something from people in my mother support groups that is disturbing. It seems that mothers (even vaginal deliveries) are routinely being told that there's "no such thing as nipple confusion" and many newborns are routinely given a bottle of formula as soon as they get to the nursery for the cleanup, apgars, etc. Moms are also told that colostrum isn't enough food and that the babies are hungry, and one mom who had a 10-lb baby was told that the girl was too big for colostrum to satisfy her, so she'd have to be supplemented.

I asked my husband again what he observed, and he said that every baby he saw brought to that nursery that morning (there were a lot) had a bottle. In the support group, I am meeting women in droves who came out of that hospital with nursing issues--the baby latched once, then wouldn't latch so nurse suggested a bottle because "they wont get confused," then baby never latched again; or first thing in baby's mouth was a bottle and baby never latched.

DH also says they suction all the babies as well.

A good number of those moms are FF now. We are lucky that nursing worked out for us (minus the reflux).

Our ped also told us that tons of babies come out of that hospital with reflux-in her words, "all my Hoboken babies are puking." coincidence??? The formula they give is regular Similac Advance, which is dairy.

Anyone be interested in drawing up a petition to that hospital? I'm really raring to send my letter now, even though I got lazy.

[Breastfeeding Insomniac]

It is insane that a hospital would give a baby non medically indicated supplementation, but I know of so many that do. I actually made a breastfeeding care plan that moms can attach to their birth plan and take to the hospital with them just bc of this. You would be shocked if you knew how little true knowledge of breastfeeding that so many OB's, peds, and nurses in the labor/delivery/postpartum/nursery nurses have. The stories I have heard. I am so glad that the hospital I work in is so strict w/ bf, or I don't think I could work there.

[babylove2007]

Originally Posted by Breastfeeding Insomniac

It is insane that a hospital would give a baby non medically indicated supplementation, but I know of so many that do. I actually made a breastfeeding care plan that moms can attach to their birth plan and take to the hospital with them just bc of this. You would be shocked if you knew how little true knowledge of breastfeeding that so many OB's, peds, and nurses in the labor/delivery/postpartum/nursery nurses have. The stories I have heard. I am so glad that the hospital I work in is so strict w/ bf, or I don't think I could work there.

Yeah. This is the same place that when my DS was first hospitalized with reflux (hosp because he wouldn't eat one day and was dehydrated/fever), the night nurses told me I "have to schedule his feedings, he shouldn't be nursing all the time" (yeah that's real great on a reflux baby). :roll: (They also wanted me to pat him while letting him CIO in a hospital bed at5 weeks old because rocking him is a "bad habit," but that's for another thread. .

I had a birth plan but it went down the toilet when they had to operate. It seemed like from then on, I no longer had control, and was even initially told that I could not bf for "a couple of days" after the C-section, until we reared up and had him brought to me in recovery.

[songbh]

Originally Posted by babylove2007

Anyone be interested in drawing up a petition to that hospital? I'm really raring to send my letter now, even though I got lazy.

Well, it sounds to me like you didn't get lazy -- you got slammed by new motherhood plus reflux.

I urge you to get in touch with the New Jersey Breastfeeding Task Force, share your story, and ask what can be done to focus consumer and health-professional pressure on this hospital's unconscionable routine sabotage of breastfeeding through the unnecessary use of formula and artificial nipples on newborns.

Internet petitions are a feel-good consciousness-raising tool that rarely accomplish much real change; an organization like a hospital is more likely to pay attention to complaints from people in the local community. Get connected with the local lactivists and go from there. And keep us posted!

[cancat]

doctors are routinely told in medical school that there is no such thing as nipple confusion...

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by cancat

doctors are routinely told in medical school that there is no such thing as nipple confusion...

Hmmmm... are you sure? I would think to be routinely told that there is no such thing as nipple confusion, they would first have to be told about breastfeeding!

[cancat]

true, ha ha ha...I'm speaking of my friends who recently went through med school. They had 2 hours with a lactation consultant, and afterwards were told that everything they were told about nipple confusion was not true.

[Can Dance]

who was paying for their classes? a big pharm company? I wouldn't be surprised. unbelievable.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by cancat

true, ha ha ha...I'm speaking of my friends who recently went through med school. They had 2 hours with a lactation consultant, and afterwards were told that everything they were told about nipple confusion was not true.

So basically they spend a couple of hours with an LC so that when they are asked if they have any BF training they can say "yes", but then they disregard everything that they learned so they don't need to trouble themselves with it.

[MilkTrance]

I asked my husband again what he observed, and he said that every baby he saw brought to that nursery that morning (there were a lot) had a bottle.

:

[songbh]

Originally Posted by babylove2007

I asked my husband again what he observed, and he said that every baby he saw brought to that nursery that morning (there were a lot) had a bottle. ...

DH also says they suction all the babies as well.

Originally Posted by MilkTrance

:

:

And let's not forget that in the OP's first post about this hospital's BFing sabotage, she mentioned that the hospital describes itself as "baby friendly" in promotional literature. I suspect this has to be an attempt by corporate PR to capitalize on the growing awareness of the Baby Friendly USA (BFHI) credential without going through the accreditation process -- thus suckering families who intend to breastfeed into believing that this hospital will support those plans, when in fact the opposite seems to be true.

I would love to hear what the NJ BFing task force folks have to say about your experiences and the stories you are hearing from other new mothers and healthcare providers in Hoboken. Please keep us posted on this case.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by cancat

true, ha ha ha...I'm speaking of my friends who recently went through med school. They had 2 hours with a lactation consultant, and afterwards were told that everything they were told about nipple confusion was not true.

So sad! Can you name the school? (sorry - off topic!)

[babylove2007]

I will try to rally folks around here and will keep you ladies posted!

[rmzbm]

Oh, wow...that's pretty bad.

Reminds me of when I had DS1, a nurse told me to "just formula feed, there's NO difference & it's easier." Um, yeah...

[Breastfeeding Insomniac]

Originally Posted by songbh

:

And let's not forget that in the OP's first post about this hospital's BFing sabotage, she mentioned that the hospital describes itself as "baby friendly" in promotional literature. I suspect this has to be an attempt by corporate PR to capitalize on the growing awareness of the Baby Friendly USA (BFHI) credential without going through the accreditation process -- thus suckering families who intend to breastfeed into believing that this hospital will support those plans, when in fact the opposite seems to be true.

.

Wow, how did I miss this in the original post?!?!?! If they are saying Baby friendly, then the OP should contact baby friendly usa, at babyfriendlyusa.org, and let them know. I work in a hospital that has a baby friendly certificate of intent filed w/ BF, but we are NOT allowed to use the term "baby-friendly" until after we have received the actual designation. Trust me, as an LC in a hospital working towards the baby-friendly goal, the hospital described in the OP is FAR from baby-friendly!

[~Boudicca~]

Originally Posted by babylove2007

Yeah. This is the same place that when my DS was first hospitalized with reflux (hosp because he wouldn't eat one day and was dehydrated/fever), the night nurses told me I "have to schedule his feedings, he shouldn't be nursing all the time" (yeah that's real great on a reflux baby). :roll: (They also wanted me to pat him while letting him CIO in a hospital bed at5 weeks old because rocking him is a "bad habit," but that's for another thread. .

I had a birth plan but it went down the toilet when they had to operate. It seemed like from then on, I no longer had control, and was even initially told that I could not bf for "a couple of days" after the C-section, until we reared up and had him brought to me in recovery.

OMG! What is it, 1950 at this hospital?

[phreedom]

Yay me! I stood up to a doctor...kind of

oops

[phreedom]

Originally Posted by honeydee

OMG! What is it, 1950 at this hospital?

For real. I consider my hospital where I work with it's "full service" nursery and "routines" to be somewhat old school. But this place makes the hospital I work at seem positively "New Age" or something. We get freaking written up for giving a baby a bottle without an order. And if a BFing mother requests supplementation we are required to get her to sign a consent. If not...it's a write up. Even if the mother is completely fine with supplementation.

I still wouldn't call us "baby friendly" though. There are many policies in place to facilitate successful BFing but there are just as many "routine" things that are done just for the sake of doing them that hinder successful BFing. One sometimes cancels the other out.

[noeonend]

No such thing as nipple confusion??? My rear end!!!!! It is stupid practices like that that meant 10 weeks of torture until my child finally latched! GRRRRR!!!!!!

[elanorh]

My Ped, who is otherwise very pro-BF and has good bf-friendly advice (including how to do an effective elimination diet with a food-allergic babe) -- also doesn't believe in Nipple Confusion. The nurses at the hospital here don't believe it either (well if Ped 1 is dismissing it, and probably Ped 2 - why would they believe in it)? I listened to Ped with Ina and allowed a nuk. But with SJ, I refused and man did I have to defend that with every. single. nurse. They would ask about it, too, and were certain I'd be bleeding from both breasts from allowing nursing on demand instead of using a paci. Oddly enough, instead, SJ had regained her birthweight (actually never lost any) before discharge.

OP -- Send your original letter (from your OP) or whatever version it's in, at this point, to the hospital. It doesn't matter that it's several months later. It still needs to be brought to their attention.

And I agree that BFI needs to hear about this, and the local coalitions - so that some grassroots action can be taken.

My sister (an RN) just doesn't believe that this sort of sabotage happens anymore. We got in a big fight about it. She's convinced that, especially in the Big Cities, virtually every nurse on the OB floors is an LC (if not IBCLC) - or wouldn't be hired for the job. She works Med/Surge and is very pro-bf, and gets defensive when I talk about things like this with her as she simply can't believe that there are HCPs and especially nurses out there anymore like this. Why not, when she's got many coworkers who make other unhealthy choices (smoking or whatever)?