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What is with all this induction talk? - Page 3

post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by starry_mama View Post
So when I hear of people who are planning to birth in a hospital, I admit, it makes my heart hurt for them.
I think a lot of people have this POV. But, as someone who had planned a hospital birth, it CAN get frustrating to have everyone act like there's no possible way you can have the birth experience you want, because you are going to an OMG EVIL PLACE OF DOOM. (I'm not saying you said that at all, btw - just the web at large gives that impression. So this isn't some targeted rant at anyone on here, since I freakin love y'all, but just the aftermath of lots of frustration about negative comments about my birth plans.) I cried a LOT about my birth plans this summer because so many people made me feel like I would not be able to have any kind of good birth experience at any hospital, that I would be handcuffed to my bed and forced on drugs, and made to deal with horrible medical professionals. But I don't like what I've heard about the birth centers here, my hubby & I don't feel comforting UCing, I don't want to birth in my apt, and I so don't have the money for a homebirth. Maybe I'd have spent money on a homebirth if there was no GOOD option, but since there's an awesome hospital with awesome midwives covered by insurance 15 minutes away from my house, it didn't make sense to me.

Anyway, I just want to say that despite birthing in a hospital, I had a completely intervention-free birth. The nurses were so excited about my birth plan and I could hear them murmuring to each other about being sure not to offer me any drugs and giving each other tips on how to help me birth naturally. I had a birth stool, a birth ball, a squat bar on the bed, and a team of awesome people helping me get into whatever positions I wanted and having the awesome active birth experience I wanted. It was never the kind of thing where we had to fight for what we wanted - my birth plan was followed to the letter, and I had a beautiful experience, and it was SO GREAT.

It depresses me so much that this isn't the norm, and that plenty of HCPs are not like this at all. That many hospital births are totally different. If I had been somewhere else, I KNOW it wouldn't have been the same, because of how tired I was and how much I was freaking out that I couldn't do it. So I did luck out and pick an awesome place to birth. But it was frustrating to keep getting this message that because I was going to a hospital I was probably going to have a horrific experience - it was really discouraging and made me really dread birth for a while, which is so not how pregnant women should feel. Even if I'd had a C-section, which would have been the complete opposite of what I'd wanted, I believe that my midwife and nurse and birth team would have done everything possible to make it into the most beautiful experience they could. I think that's what's important, not whether you're at a birth center or a hospital or at home... just that you're somewhere that you feel comfortable and having how much ever support you want or need and stuff.

I know that isn't related to the induction topic but, whatever, every time I see the anti-hospital stuff I just have to chime in and add that not every hospital is like that, and if you have a care provider who is willing to advocate for you, and you're giving birth somewhere that's woman and baby friendly, that's really what counts more than the word hospital or phrase birth center.
post #42 of 63
Jenn, I understand where you are coming from. But the fact is that many women do not know that induction is a *choice*. I was bullied into it with my last two children right before my "due date". My son still faces health challenges because the date was wrong and he was premature. Not to mention how horrific that birth was and how I had seizures and hemorrhaging afterwards among other things. I was pressured to do it with my 3rd child, too. It was only recently on MDC I found out that I DO NOT have to be induced.

SO I do not find this talk offensive. I do wish, however, that someone would have told me beforehand that I do not have to be induced. MY body.

And FWIW, my SIL just got induced at almost 37 weeks for convenience. Literally. It is shocking that doctors can get away with that. Look at the statistics for things like that. I just wish more women knew their rights.
post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by starry_mama View Post
So when I hear of people who are planning to birth in a hospital, I admit, it makes my heart hurt for them. I had two horrendous births, and I wouldn't wish them upon an enemy, let alone a mama from my DDC who I love and care about.
While I'm sorry for you and for any mother who have had horrible births, I think it's a stretch to believe that everyone who chooses a hospital birth will end up in a bad situation. Again, I'll say, I'm really sorry you had 2 horrible births and have had to deal with the emotions surrounding them. I do think there is some room for respect for a mother's birth choices.

Since I have really only been lurking here, I'll briefly share my two births. My older DD was born vaginally, and according to MDC standards, I had multiple interventions. Because I have mitral valve prolapse and have surgery for ASD, I started out with antibiotics. I also got an epidural at around 5cm. I didn't have a doula, just my husband and one of the OBGYNs from the group that I went to at the time. I am just fine with my daughter's birth, and in fact, my husband and I reminisce about how wonderful my L&D nurse was when I really thought I had to poop but it was actually time to push. I was pretty damn defiant! Labor with my second DD started much the same as my first DD, but unfortunately ended in, what I feel was an unnecessary c-section. I was angry when it was happening, but frankly was more concerned with how I would take care of 2 children under two years old. The recovery sucked with DD#2, honestly, and I quickly decided to change care providers to avoid any more issues should I have more children.

Well, fast forward almost 4 years and here I am due with #3. I decided to learn more about VBACing and have done a ton of reading and preparation so that my baby will be born vaginally. I appreciate all the stories I read online and in books, HOWEVER, I don't appreciate this vibe that I have gotten from some women that if I don't have a homebirth/choose to birth in a hospital/don't have a doula/don't do birth a certain way, that I'm doomed to fail. I'm not an idiot and I don't like when other women who have "found the light" in the crunch department act like I'm stupid because I've decided that what is best for me and my baby is to birth in a hospital setting with midwives. While I hope to God that I end up successfully having a VBAC without too many interventions (today or tomorrow would be nice ), if something goes wrong and plans have to change, I'm going to do what I have to do. I'm not going to beat up on myself if things don't go exactly as I'd like, because frankly, there is so much more to this parenting thing *to me* than the birth. That doesn't mean I'm signing up for an induction or another c-section, but I'm just trying to put it in perspective for myself.

Really, it comes down to respecting that someone else has choice in their birth even if it differs wildly from what you (the general you, that is) might do. I certainly may not agree with someone else's choice, but I'm gonna respect their right to choose what they feel is best, as long as they aren't harming someone in the process.

back to lurking
post #44 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by FroNuff View Post
back to lurking
Good idea.
post #45 of 63
Well, that was rude. I didn't think I was rude to you. Just expressing my opinion.
post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeMuffin View Post
I just have to chime in and add that not every hospital is like that, and if you have a care provider who is willing to advocate for you, and you're giving birth somewhere that's woman and baby friendly, that's really what counts more than the word hospital or phrase birth center.
:

I have the unfortunate circumstance of, after 3 months of trying, not being able to find a single midwife in my area for a home birth (which I really did want to do this time around). And no birth centers within 2 hours. So literally my only option other than UC, which I'm not comfortable with and dh would NEVER go for, is a CNM in a hospital. However, that being said, I am so, so, so lucky that the hospital I'll be going to (same as with dd #1) and my midwives are tremendous and very far from the norm. Beautiful, home-like birth suites with in room tubs. Water birth. Some rooms even have queen sized "family bed" rather than hospital bed. No visiting hours--whatever, whoever and whenever mom wants. So it's as close to a home-like environment as possible. And the midwives are very strong advocates on behalf of their clients and prevent interventions as much as possible under the law. Also, because the hospital is a small, regional one and the midwives do so much of the activity there, the staff in general is very used to natural births, so no one pressures you for anything different and they're used to letting labor progress naturally.

All that being said, I have to say the hospital my sister works in is EXACTLY the opposite. They almost never see a birth without an epidural unless it's just too late for mom to get one, they give pit regularly (my sister estimates 50% + of labors) to "keep things moving" and they have nearly 40% C-section rate. They are a big, high-volume baby factory and it is insane how women are treated there. So the hospital concern is valid--they vary so greatly, especially in some areas of the country like here in the northeast. And the sad thing is that most women I know who have birthed at hospitals like the one my sister works at, including my SIL, don't realize they could have it better or just are afraid of anything outside of their norm. My SIL thinks I'm the crazy one, but when I went to visit her after the birth of her son and saw and heard her surroundings and treatment, I cried all the way home. Broke my heart. (And both of her spontaneous labors were almost immediately augmented with pitocin when she got to the hospital. Just standard protocol.)
post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by FroNuff View Post
I certainly may not agree with someone else's choice, but I'm gonna respect their right to choose what they feel is best, as long as they aren't harming someone in the process.

back to lurking
I try and respect other ppl's choices but the more risk it puts them in (ie: elective c-section) the less I respect them.

I don't believe in putting baby's at risk just because you have a personal choice.

And the more interventave, statistically, the more danger both mama AND baby are in.

I can totally see your point but to me, safety trumps personal choice.
post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by starry_mama View Post
Good idea.
Feelin Saucy today, are we?



Hey, 39 weeks pregnant....hormones....give the girl a break.
post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by FroNuff View Post
While I'm sorry for you and for any mother who have had horrible births, I think it's a stretch to believe that everyone who chooses a hospital birth will end up in a bad situation. Again, I'll say, I'm really sorry you had 2 horrible births and have had to deal with the emotions surrounding them. I do think there is some room for respect for a mother's birth choices.

...

I appreciate all the stories I read online and in books, HOWEVER, I don't appreciate this vibe that I have gotten from some women that if I don't have a homebirth/choose to birth in a hospital/don't have a doula/don't do birth a certain way, that I'm doomed to fail. I'm not an idiot and I don't like when other women who have "found the light" in the crunch department act like I'm stupid because I've decided that what is best for me and my baby is to birth in a hospital setting with midwives.
i am 100% with you there
post #50 of 63
Quote:
I can totally see your point but to me, safety trumps personal choice.
I absolutely agree. But that doesn't mean that everyone who ends up in a hospital or chooses to go to a hospital is being unsafe and will end up with a cascade of interventions. I think MmeMuffin illustrated that beautifully, btw.
That was more of my point, which I suppose was lost or unclear.

And really, I'm not being snarky, but please don't call me a girl. I'm a grown woman.
post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by FroNuff View Post
I absolutely agree. But that doesn't mean that everyone who ends up in a hospital or chooses to go to a hospital is being unsafe and will end up with a cascade of interventions.
I think that's the main point that I had a hard time communicating to some people over the summer. I think homebirthing sounds AWESOME and maybe if things were different that would have been my first choice. But I don't think any less of myself for choosing a hospital birth, and I don't think that other women who make that choice are forgoing safety and risking their baby's lives. Again, it really depends on WHERE you are. Not every hospital is the same. Not every birth center is the same. And not every midwife is the same. I can think of an OB in town whose rates of natural birth, interventions, and c-section are comparable to homebirth, and I can think of tons of "med"wives who are intervention-happy. We're all trying to do whatever we can to make things right for ourselves and our children... we don't have to be judgmental about other people's choices. Lord knows the birth culture that's out there is discouraging and disempowering enough without us tearing each other down for what we choose.
post #52 of 63
Thread Starter 
I think the point that I've always tried to make is that interventions should be medically justified rather than routine. It's pretty much a no-brainer.
I don't think I, nor just about any mama on this board, would judge any other mama for seeking medical care to ensure the safety of her child. Whether it's a medically necessary C-section, or high blood pressure that means an induction is safest, or a very post-term baby who appears to be in distress--those interventions are life-savers and enormous blessings.
However, for many--I would say for the majority--of hospital births in this country nowadays, the cascade of interventions are routine and performed without medical necessity, and serve to make the birth less safe.
In no way does that mean that an educated and informed mama like MmeMuffin can't have a beautiful, healthy and empowering birth in a hospital. But by going into that birth with a well-formed birth plan, and informed of her options, she took control of the situation. If she had gone in uniformed and left it fully up to the hospital staff, the experience quite likely would have been different.
In the birthing spectrum, I found a homebirth most appealing. I wasn't personally comfortable with a UC, and while I'm happy to have a hospital back-up, that wasn't my first choice for how I envisioned my own birth. That's my personal choice. Other reasonable, rational people could very easily have arrived at a different one. As long as mamas are taking the time to research and get educated and informed, I don't care where they choose to birth. It's the ones who spend more time researching their nursury color scheme than their birth choices that I don't understand.
Honestly, I hear a lot of mamas saying that they're being judged, and often it seems like they're being oversensitive and reading judgment where there is none.
post #53 of 63
I think that my *MAIN* issue with non-intervention/non-induction vs. intervention/induction or even hospital vs. homebirth is the policies and politics and legalities. To me, it feels like an all or none thing--"All women testing + for GBS will have IV abx. All women who go 42 weeks will be induced. All women who don't progress 1 cm dilation per hour will need a section. All women must give birth laying on their backs, and must wait to push their fetus out until a licensed care provider is there to deliver said fetus." But because we live in such a letigious society, hospitals and HCP have to have policies in place just to cover their a$$e$ in case of mal-practice. Thusly, the pressure that hospitals and HCP get because of threatened and actual lawsuits from former and current patients, transmits to back to the patient, and especially to the patient that puts all of their trust into the hospital, HCP, and all of the policies there to "protect" the patient.

I, too, have had a Pit/epidural birth in a very large hospital. As per hospital policy, I was on a clock for dilation, and 10 hours after Pit was started, C/S talk was started. I asked my Dr. if we could just wait a little longer, and he had to go discuss it with an OB that was employed by the hospital as my family Dr. wasn't employed or affiliated with the hospital. Since I was making some progress and the monitors were "good", I was left for a while. A few hours later I did have a vaginal birth, although the whole experience left me feeling used and shell shocked.

With my daughter, I wanted a homebirth, but as I needed to move back in with my folks, and they said "NO", I went around to the local hospitals to tour their L&D wards. One was a university teaching hospital that boasted the biggest and best NICU in the area, but their L&D ward was reverting back from having all-in-one rooms (LDR) to having L&D rooms and switching to not even nice looking recovery rooms (new policy). The other big hospital had already made the switch reverting back because it was "easier for staff that way". I asked about using just a regular shower or bath for pain relief and I was told they couldn't allow them any more because of a slip hazard (again Policy). Then I found a tiny-we-only-have-3-LDR rooms-with-a-spare-room-if-we-need-it community hospital. Although the rooms weren't as "homey" as I would have liked, there were complete bathrooms with whirlpool baths in each of the 3 rooms, all of the L&D nurses that have had kids breastfed them to some extent, and I was made to feel welcome. When I did give birth, I did allow AROM and a dose of nubain at the time, for which I am not to proud about, but all in all for a hospital birth, it was a good experience. If I had a chance to birth there again, I probably would. That is also where I found my Super-Cool-Breastfed-Her-Own-Daughters-Until-They-Were-Past-2yrs old Doctor.

Here, I have had to "fight" to keep my homebirth. When I say, fight, I don't mean against my community midwives personally, I mean fight against policy. When I was basically told that I had to have IV abx in the hospital because I was GBS+, I had to do a flurry of research, with medical abstracts of studies using alternative methods of treating GBS, to state my case to the local director of midwives against policy. Also the issue of my weight came up, and policies on tranferring overweight pregnant women to the hospital in case of emergency. We got those cleared up...but yet again, policy policy policy.

I am not so hard core HB/UC that if a true medical emergency arises during any or all stages of labor and birth that I won't go in. Medical attention is there *IF* I/baby need it. However, I am not going to let someone else's blanket policy dictate how/where/when/how fast I give birth.
post #54 of 63


I had a beautiful hospital birth with my dd 6 years ago. Loved my epidural, it was pretty routine, etc.

It was fabulous.

Even though I am pretty much a homebirther at this point, I am so thankful for the medical advancments we have to save situations that would have been really sad.

I also advocate for medical staff to be more educated though. To say that shoulder dyscotia is grounds for a c-section....or suction....or forceps.....is maddening to me. Its just lack of education.
post #55 of 63
Karin, you are SO right about it being all about politics. It is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MamaJen* View Post
However, for many--I would say for the majority--of hospital births in this country nowadays, the cascade of interventions are routine and performed without medical necessity, and serve to make the birth less safe.
In no way does that mean that an educated and informed mama like MmeMuffin can't have a beautiful, healthy and empowering birth in a hospital. But by going into that birth with a well-formed birth plan, and informed of her options, she took control of the situation. If she had gone in uniformed and left it fully up to the hospital staff, the experience quite likely would have been different.
...
Honestly, I hear a lot of mamas saying that they're being judged, and often it seems like they're being oversensitive and reading judgment where there is none.
I think the first part of this is right on. If you don't really know what you're getting into, how can you make a good choice? You need to be educated and informed to make an educated and informed decision.

Re: being judged - at least for me - I've definitely had some women be REALLY bitchy to me about my hospital birth choice. Not you guys - y'all rock my world. Which is why I can kvetch about it here without worrying about drama... no one's made me feel crappy about it. But, in general, I have encountered a lot of people who make other women feel like total crap for whatever decisions they make, whether it's about birth or breastfeeding or WOH or whatever else. And that makes me sad. I feel like our society has done a lot to disempower women and I wish we wouldn't do it to each other, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
I also advocate for medical staff to be more educated though. To say that shoulder dyscotia is grounds for a c-section....or suction....or forceps.....is maddening to me. Its just lack of education.
Seriously. It is f'ed up how many people with MEDICAL DEGREES have no idea wtf they're talking about half the time. That infuriates me sometimes. Transverse birth = c-section? Okay, I totally can see where you're coming from. But large baby = c-section? Ugh. A mom on another DDC I'm part of said her doc wouldn't "let" her labor because her baby was at least 10 lbs (by u/s), so she had an elective c-section. She was happy about it, her (nearly 11-lb at birth) baby's healthy, and good for her. But that rubbed me the wrong way. And you know, that same week, an online friend of mine had a home waterbirth with HER 11-lb baby. I had to bite my tongue to keep from telling that first mom about it, because everything I had just wanted to be like "IT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE TO BIRTH A BABY THAT SIZE AND NOT IMPLODE." Bah! Plus, ultrasounds are so not an accurate way to guess weight. Gah, that really bothered me, can you tell? And what a jerk of a doctor to say "I won't LET you labor with a baby that big." Let? Roar.
post #56 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeMuffin View Post
And that makes me sad. I feel like our society has done a lot to disempower women and I wish we wouldn't do it to each other, too.
Isn't that the truth? Well spoken.
post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
I try and respect other ppl's choices but the more risk it puts them in (ie: elective c-section) the less I respect them.

I don't believe in putting baby's at risk just because you have a personal choice.

And the more interventave, statistically, the more danger both mama AND baby are in.

I can totally see your point but to me, safety trumps personal choice.
:

And I see nothing wrong with someone choosing a hospital birth. Homebirth is not something I would ever make someone do. Or make them feel guilty for! This will be my first hb and I never knew I could do this before.

I think it comes down to education about the subject. And the fact that not all hospitals are baby or mother friendly. Period. In fact, they are very far and few between. Look at our mortality and intervention statistics. It is very depressing.

The fact is that non-medical induction is dangerous. And hospitals are not the best place to give birth for most people who make that choice. Why is this an argument? We are harassed all the time for choosing homebirths or natural births in general. The fact that we are being argued with on MDC (which I believed to uphold natural birthing as an ideal) about our beliefs of hospitals not being the choice for us, and for many of us a dangerous option, and for idealizing natural birth is confusing to me. Why can't we say that in our opinion homebirth is preferable for most people to reduce the chance of negative outcomes that the studies show?

It's not always feasible, by any means. I think I'm just confused as to why this is being argued. Is there really anyone on here arguing that non-medical induction is awesome? I think I'm just overdue and my mind is giving up before my placenta does.
post #58 of 63
Poking my head in from Jan. but I was just daydreaming in the shower this morning....

"imagine a world where OB just sit on the sidelines like a lifeguard. Pretty much just sitting there watching for the very rare emergency" "imagine if the nurses were more like labor coaches or doulas. and would offer quiet support and assistance when asked."

fwiw, I don't think the op was degrating at all. she was pretty clear on pre-term or barely term Mamas seeking or agreeing to inductions. I didn't get a pro or anti hospital vibe from the op. but a "why the impatience" valid question.

Post date and induction issues are a big deal to me. I've been through most of what this thread covers; as I was induced at 42 weeks, labored naturally (if you're prepared, yes it can be done!) for 14 hrs until I became too much of a pita and in the end had an epi and a c-section w/in the hour. At 41 weeks w/ #2 I went the scheduled route, expecting the horrible recovery I'd had w/ #1.

And I have to agree about geography differences too. I know the attitude and actions I've seen here in Montana are night and day from what I thought I was happy w/ in Las Vegas!! But I also never thought about the anxiety of being 2 hours from a hospital before either!!


post #59 of 63
Just wanted to say, I hope I didn't tick anyone off with my posts on here, 'cause they didn't even have to DO with the topic of induction - and FWIW I agree with Jen's OP... I think I was just reacting to the crunchier-than-thou vibes I got from other people earlier in my pregnancy that made me feel really crappy about my birth plan because it had the word 'hospital' in it, even though I was able to have it go exactly the way I wanted it and before the birth felt like I would be empowered and supported the way I deserved to be. The way everyone deserves to be.

So, yeah, I just hope my comments didn't come across as weird or off the mark, since they came from a defensive place and were rather OT.

post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeMuffin View Post
Just wanted to say, I hope I didn't tick anyone off with my posts on here, 'cause they didn't even have to DO with the topic of induction - and FWIW I agree with Jen's OP... I think I was just reacting to the crunchier-than-thou vibes I got from other people earlier in my pregnancy that made me feel really crappy about my birth plan because it had the word 'hospital' in it, even though I was able to have it go exactly the way I wanted it and before the birth felt like I would be empowered and supported the way I deserved to be. The way everyone deserves to be.

So, yeah, I just hope my comments didn't come across as weird or off the mark, since they came from a defensive place and were rather OT.

No, I totally understand.

You sound like you had an awesome birth. Be proud of that!
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