13 yo dd hit someone at school

[dharmamama]

Desta hit a boy at school today. She told the school it was because he was "annoying" her.

I haven't talked to her about it yet, I am waiting for dh to come home so we can talk to her together (but not in the "Wait 'till your father gets home" way).

The first thing I did when she came home was hug her and ask her if the boy hurt her in any way. She said no and started to cry. I asked if she wanted to talk and she said no, she wanted to go to her room. I told her I was available if she needed me. She went up to her room and after a bit, I went up and asked if she was ok. She said yes. I asked if she wanted me to come in and she said no. After about 40 minutes she came down and did her chores and helped me make dinner. Right now she's playing with the little kids.

Yesterday she told me about something that happened in gym that upset her and she told me that she doesn't feel like the gym teacher helps her when she asks for it. She also said that he asks her inappropriate questions about being adopted. She also told me that she misses school in Ethiopia because the kids here don't behave well. She told me about a particular boy she can't stand.

Today's hitting incident didn't involve gym class or the particular boy.

I don't want to overreact, nor do I want to underreact. I sympathize with Desta about the state of kids' behavior in schools; that's part of why I homeschool my youngers and why I wanted to homeschool Desta. Also, if she's having a problem in gym and the teacher brushes her off, that's not ok. Nor is getting into her personal life by asking adoption questions. But on the other hand, she can't just pop people if they irritate her. Of course we need to talk to her before we decide what to do, but I feel like any reason for hitting someone other than someone threatening/harming her is unacceptable. (Yeah, real Buddhist of me, right? "Don't hit unless someone hits you.")

She'll be in in-school suspension tomorrow.

I don't really know why I posted this, I just feel like, "Damn, can't I catch a break?"

I guess, on the bright side, we've been in therapy for a year to help her learn to express anger, and she did today!

dm

[giftedwith2]

Sounds like you've handled it great so far! I guess as a mom who wants to empower my own sometimes-lacking -in- confidence daughter, I'd try to support her right to defend herself and at the same time reinforce the fact that hitting when not in physical danger is unacceptable.

Maybe I'd say something like,
" You have never hit anyone at school before. You must have felt very upset or frightened to do that. I want you to know
that I ( or teacher etc.) will protect you when you are scared. I am your Mother. Mothers protect their children. You can call me and tell me when you need help. When you are at school Mrs.___ will help you(or call me for you) when you feel scared. We have a rule that we do not hit people unless that is the only way to escape from someone who is trying to hurt you. "


I would then practice ways to discourage"annoying" or threatening behaviors from others. Anything from politely asking someone to leave her alone, to walking away or asking a teacher to let her change her seat in class, to shouting " LEAVE ME ALONE!"

My own DD12 will be taking a womans self defense course with her girl scout troup soon. This will give bothe of us some reassurance that she can not only set self protecting boundaries and defend herself but avoid troublesome situations too. Maybe the two of you could take a class like this together. It would show her that you are serious about protecting her (I know from other posts that she has issued around trusting that you have her best interests at heart) and teach her that it is o.k with you that she express herself when she feels unsafe. On the whole gym teacher thing. That would make me furious. I would tell her that "yes indeedy, the teacher was disrespecting her privacy and that she doesn't have to answer nosy questions from anyone-child or adult!" I would speak to the teacher mysel and also tell Desta that she is to answer " My mother would like you to direct those kinds of questions to [I]her[!"

I would not discipline her for this although would go along with the suspension in a low key way. Maybe say" You are being suspended for hitting iwhen you could have asked a teacher to send that boy away. You only hit when there is NO OTHER WAY to protect yourself." I'd then give her a big hug and tell her that in any case you are glad that she wants others to treat her with respect and you will help her be treated respectfully any time that she needs your help.

[Marcee]

My was in 8th grading when he got suspended for biting a girl who picked up his pencil. Sometimes kids that age just react. Boy were my parents proud to go pick him up at school...lol

That age is so hard. I hope that you can get to the root of the problem at school. And that you will be able to get the Gym teacher on board with taking Desta's concerns seriously.

[dharmamama]

Dh and I did talk to Desta this evening. She said that the boys at school give the girls a really hard time and that the boy she hit has a habit of calling her stupid because she struggles with reading in English. (I told her to ask him whether he can read in Amharic, or any other language, for that matter.) She said that she has told the teacher twice before that this boy was a problem and the teacher has said she will handle it but hasn't. She said that the teacher pretty much ignores the kids' misbehavior and struggles to keep control of the class.

This is a first-year teacher, fresh out of college. She has already been suspended this year for having the kids read what was termed an "inappropriate poem." I don't know what poem it was because Desta was not in that class.

There is another teacher, who is older and more experienced, who teaches the other half of the seventh grade in the same subject, and Desta requested to be moved to that class. She has the older teacher for another class and says that the older teacher does not allow the kids to misbehave.

I set up a meeting with the school for Thursday. I will be meeting with the director, the teacher in whose class the hitting incident took place, the gym teacher, and the special ed teacher. I am going to ask that Desta be transferred to the other teacher's class.

Dh and I talked to Desta for a long time. I could see how frustrated she was. I reassured her that we understood where she was coming from and that we will talk to the school about her concerns. I told her that I know that she is a good kid and that we don't think she's "bad" because this happened. We told her that if the teacher she is with doesn't listen to her, ask to speak to the director of the school (he is a friend of mine). (Good idea to tell her she can call me. I'll definitely tell her that!) We told her that she is certainly entitled to defend herself, physically if necessary, but that it's not ok to hit because someone is teasing or annoying you. I told her that dh and I are on her side in this and that we don't want her to think we are angry with her. I told her she can always talk to us about things that are happening and we will always work with her to resolve them.

We also pointed out to Desta that her goal of going to a private school for high school could be threatened if she gets in trouble for this again. We explained that private schools do not have to take kids who seem like they might make trouble at the school.

It just upsets me so much because, even though Desta has her issues and sometimes makes me she is not a "bad" kid. She is a scared, frustrated, confused, and angry kid who is really struggling to make it in a whole new life. I want her to have every advantage possible, and I don't want something stupid like this to dog her and negatively impact her future. I totally sympathize with her about the discipline issue at the school; kids feel free to act up because they know they have to keep going to school. In Ethiopia, a school spot is coveted, and kids wouldn't dare risk losing it. I don't want Desta to become a "tough kid" because she feels like she has to to survive at the school. She said that she has seen other girls hit boys and it makes the boys stop teasing them. I hate that it's like that for her. I never wanted school for her in the first place, but homeschooling was a disaster. Now, after finding out through a multi-factored evaluation that she is "severely learning disabled" and that many of the issues we struggle with at home are the things that showed up as problems on the MFE, I just don't feel like I could adequately address her educational needs even IF we decided to give homeschooling another try. She qualifies for six hours of one-on-one special ed intervention a week.

I want Desta to know that we heard her and will go to bat for her, but I don't know how much we can really do to change the school environment. We can't afford a private school. (We are hoping she will get a scholarship for high school.)

dm

[giftedwith2]

Sounds like you are doing and saying everything you can right now to support Desta. I homeschool my kids and despite their somewhat sheltered world (they are very involved in many activities but are sheltered compared to the general public school environment) I can't prevent unpleasant experiences from touching them sometimes. What I can do though is be their advocate. I can cry with them, defend them and support them. It is my hope that they will know that they can rely on me to be in their corner when life gets tough. I'll bet that through this experience and the other inevitable "bumps" Desta experiences she'll come to know the same about you too. I think she's lucky to have you!

[Marsupialmom]

I might get flamed for this but I think you need to see if her cycle is playing apart in being "annoyed" and "short tempered". I am not saying blame it on the hormones but helping her understand what might be part of the problem will only help in the long run. Really her behavior reminds me of myself when I was 13. I got annoyed and didn't understand. Now that I am an adult I am very aware how my hormones effect my emotions/perceptions. I can actually count my cycle days to were I will percieve things more critically and take things wrong. Actually my dh has mastered this pattern also, LOL....he will wait to dicuss something when he knows my hormones aren't making me on edge.

As for dicipline ask yourself what you would have done if it was one of her siblings that she would have hit would you react differently? If so you need to go with it because being "annoyed" with a person is no reason to hit them. Which I think that sounds like what you have done.

[nextcommercial]

Honestly???

I wish my daughter would have belted a few boys last year. I even taught her how to swing her 20 lb back pack at one kid's head and I told her "If you need to hit him, hit him hard, because you are going to be in suspension for it. It might as well be worth it".

Sometimes girls need to clean a few clocks to make some of the boys understand "STOP!" It's unfortunate, but it's the life of junior high.

(This particular boy (8th grade) was hitting her with his notebook, asking for a hand job, accusing her of giving the teacher a blowjob, taking money from her, and basically making her year absolutely miserable.)

[funkygranolamama]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

Honestly???

I wish my daughter would have belted a few boys last year. I even taught her how to swing her 20 lb back pack at one kid's head and I told her "If you need to hit him, hit him hard, because you are going to be in suspension for it. It might as well be worth it".

Sometimes girls need to clean a few clocks to make some of the boys understand "STOP!" It's unfortunate, but it's the life of junior high.

(This particular boy (8th grade) was hitting her with his notebook, asking for a hand job, accusing her of giving the teacher a blowjob, taking money from her, and basically making her year absolutely miserable.)

that's awful!!! i'd sure knock the crap out of him, too. did the school do anything about that?

[nextcommercial]

Originally Posted by funkygranolamama

that's awful!!! i'd sure knock the crap out of him, too. did the school do anything about that?

Yes. Finally. I think he wishes she had just knocked the crap out of him too, because the school took it too far. All I wanted was HIM to be moved out of arms reach of my child. She can handle herself. But, they put him in a wobbly desk in the corner behind the teacher, and he spent the rest of the year there. He was also forced to go to counseling (in the school) and his parents agreed to take a class on sexual harrasment.

When, really, the kid is just a jerky little brother with three older jerky brothers and a Dad who spends all of his free time in his garage with posters of naked women on the walls, Mom works in another town and isn't home much.

I didn't want him humiliated. He still hates her for that, it's been a year now, and he still hates her. The thing that makes me mad is when ever he has a chance to stand near her, he will lean over and whisper "I hate you" or other mean things. He's FIFTEEN now, I think it's time to let it go. It really isn't her fault he's a jerk.

Maybe at their ten year reunion he will apologise.

[UnschoolnMa]

I think you handled/are handling it really really well. These things are never easy. (My kids aren't in school, but we've dealt with this stuff before too a bit with kids close to us and with Ds himself when he was a bit younger.)

I think you are right on to be there for her, to hear her frustrations, and to go to bat for her with the school or teachers being inappropriate or dismissive to her concerns. But yeah, you want to help her understand your thoughts on violence and self defense (my thoughts are much the same as yours on when it's appropriate, btw). She might be a little embarrased too, so that could show up as "attitude" maybe... not sure.

Some skills, a list even, on how to handle annoying people could be helpful. Some practice role playing could be valuable if she doesn't think it's too corny. Good luck, and hang in there!

[mamaduck]

I think everything you did and said was great and on target.

The only thing I would add is that she needs to understand she is old enough to pick up charges for fighting at school. I would not present it in a scary way, and my goal would not be to threaten her -- but its important that she understand how serious something like this can get. Often the school will try to handle it themselves (as they are doing here) but if she hit a child who's parents were inclined to advocate strongly for their child -- THEY could press charges and things could get ugly.

Another very real concern is the threat of retaliation. Its not SAFE to hurt someone because they are annoying you. It may sometimes seem justified or fair, but its not smart or safe. You don't know what that person may come back at you with. There are children who do not hesitate to hit back, or to get their friends involved later.

Its not just a matter of personal philosophy, kwim? There are real risks.

[kathymuggle]

Gently....

I wonder if we would be so supportive if her DD were a DS?

I posted once about my son hitting (in self-defense, actually!) and got an earful.

OP: She is going to have to learn not to hit people who are bugging her. I would not be mad at her - just help her to (somehow! that is the big part) be assertive without aggressive.

Role play? Learn to recognise the physical sensation of getting angry?

Good luck!

Kathy

[dharmamama]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

Role play? Learn to recognise the physical sensation of getting angry?

We have worked on both these things in therapy. Role-playing does not work for Desta. She is too literal and concrete. Analogies and examples don't really work well, either. For example, if I said to Desta, "Pretend that I am you and someone says this to me, how would I react?" all she can focus on is "But you're NOT me, Momma, you're YOU!" and she gets very confused as to why I would try to say that I'm her.

We've also worked on physical signs and behaviors that indicate anger. It's very har for her to either recognize or admit to (not sure which, but I suspect the latter) to these things because she's so determined not to show anger.

But hey, she did tell us yesterday how angry she was, so that's a step!

dm

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by dharmamama

But hey, she did tell us yesterday how angry she was, so that's a step!

dm

And not to be supportive of kids hurting each other-- I am not. But sometimes hitting happens..sometimes kids tussle.

Not saying it's OK, just saying...it's not necessarily a sign they will go to prison forever.

[CarrieMF]

I punched a boy in my class when I was 14. It was break or the end of noon hour. i'd been at the track & field meet the day before & had a bad sunburn on my arms/shoulders. My back was to a couple of other kids & one of them decided to hit my sunburn. I don't know if they actually hit it hard, but it sure freaking hurt I can still feel what it felt like. I didn't even think, I just turned around & hit the first face I saw right when the vice principle happened to walk in the room. My "punishment" was to apologize by the end of the day so I waited until 3:29 & no I wasn't really sorry. The guy I hit was not the one who hit me though he'd done enough annoying things over the years that in his own way he deserved it anyhow.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

Maybe at their ten year reunion he will apologise.

He actually might. Several of the boys who made high school a living hell for me did just that...

Marsupial Mom: I agree. There could definitely be a hormonal aspect to this. I was hell on wheels from 7th grade to about 9th grade - got into a lot of fights. Looking back, I was suffering from vicious PMS. I had almost perfect periods - no pain or bloating or anything, and never made any connection to my cycle. I'd go nuts - I can't even say how many guys I decked, just for being annoying or "teasing" me. I'd be perfectly calm, and then someone would say something, and I'd just snap...and once I snapped, it took a long time before I calmed back down. It was ugly. Unfortunately, it also didn't stop the teasing - the fact that I could take most of the boys made me even more of a freak...and more of a target.

dharmamama: Good luck with this. I've read several of your threads about Desta, and it sounds to me like you're doing a wonderful job of parenting in a very difficult situation.