what convinced you to do MMR and/or DTaP? - Page 2

[Genesis]

subbing

[AllieFaye]

International travel sealed the decision for us. We will be travelling to countries with visa restrictions. However, we do our own schedule, and the travel will occur after that time.

We also do homeopathic aluminum detox, so that has allayed any concerns I had about the toxicity.

[Science Mom]

Originally Posted by TanyaS

Part of the problems with pertussis being so dangerous for young infants is because many mothers no longer have natural immunity to pertussis and are unable to pass on the immunity via breastmilk. Very young infants getting pertussis is a fairly new phenomenon, and is a result of mass vaccination for pertussis.

This is not accurate. Pertussis has always been a problem for infants and not a recent phenomenon. Maternal antibodies do not play a significant role in pertussis infection prevention as most adults have detectable antibody titres anyhow. That is also observed in populations where DTaP uptake is very low.

SM

[Proverbs31]

Originally Posted by delphiniumpansy

where does the cdc say you are more likely to have a vax reaction than catch a disease?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ads/safety.pdf
Today, vaccine-preventable diseases are at or near record
lows. By virtue of their absence, these diseases are no longer
reminders of the benefits of vaccination. At the same time,
approximately 15,000 cases of adverse events following
vaccination are reported in the United States each year
(these include both true adverse reactions and events that
occur coincidentally after vaccination). This number exceeds
the current reported incidence of vaccine-preventable
childhood diseases. As a result, parents and providers in the
United States are more likely to know someone who has
experienced an adverse event following immunization than
they are to know someone who has experienced a reportable
vaccine-preventable disease. Thus, the success of vaccination
has led to increased public attention on health risks
associated with vaccines.

[TanyaS]

Originally Posted by Science Mom

Pertussis has always been a problem for infants and not a recent phenomenon.

Actually, the disease has shifted to be a greater risk to infants <3 months, which is why I said "younger infants."
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/174/4/451

The changing epidemiology of pertussis in Canada in the 1990s has led to the emergence of groups at higher risk of the disease: young infants, adolescents and adults. Cases admitted to hospital have shifted to infants younger than 6 months, and deaths are particularly high among infants younger than 3 months, who have few options for protection.

I really don't want to derail the OPs post and get into a debate here. There is a ton of information in the archives complete with links about pertussis (disease, vax, breastfeeding protection, epidemiology shifts, etc) for those researching further. Besides, Christmas is coming and I'm a little : and from all the planning. I still haven't gone shopping for groceries yet!

[Trillian]

Originally Posted by TanyaS

Actually, the disease has shifted to be a greater risk to infants <3 months, which is why I said "younger infants."
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/174/4/451

Figure 3 in that paper shows that the incidence of pertussis in infants has been steadily decreasing. However, the incidence in slightly older children decreased even more. This can lead to infants making up a greater percentage of reported cases even while the overall risk to infants has decreased. So when they say infants are at "higher risk", they mean relative to other age groups, not relative to an earlier time period.

[amnesiac]

I have removed some posts not consistent with the guidelines & will be sending PMs shortly. Please keep in mind the guidelines specific to the S&D subforum as well as the UA when posting.

[EdnaMarie]

MMR- We got it because I don't see any point in risking it with the diseases. Although they are usually not serious, they can be. We got it on time because of lack of access to good medical care in case of complications in addition to a high risk of being exposed (we live in a poor country).

DTP- We live in the Pacific Northwest in the US, and there is pertussis all over. Weighing the risks- a couple days of fever and redness vs. weeks of coughing and vomiting- I decided we should go for it. Tetanus was also an issue as I like her playing outside and didn't want to worry every time she cut herself outside (do a search on the vaccination forum to see more about this...).

In addition I took our family history into account. No vaccine reactions in our families, ever. Our decisions might have been different if, like some women here, we had a history of severe reactions.

[amah]

We were going to do DTaP as pertussis scares me too but after doing a lot of research, some info in the CDC pink book convinced me not to.
"Of the 10,650 children 3 months to 4 years of age with
reported pertussis during 1990–1996 and known vaccination
status, 54% were not age-appropriately vaccinated with DTaP." So, approx 50% of cases were in children fully vaccinated. With such low efficacy, we decided any benefit of the vaccine was not worth the risk.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...loads/pert.pdf

As for the MMR, we will probably do it at some point but not until at least 3. I met a surgeon who has autistic twins. He believes they were vaccine damaged and while not anti vax, thinks we're doing way too many way too young. He suggested waiting until they are at least 3. We talked with our very pro vax pediatrician about it and the only component he was concerned about was measles. Mumps is almost never serious in young children, rubella is so mild in children you often don't even know they have it.

[prettypixels]

Babies at 3 months would have only received one DTaP, so they would not have full protection. No vaccine offers 100% immunity. In the case of pertussis, even a natural case does not convey immunity. Also your quote states that those children WERE NOT appropriately vaccinated. So why would that be an argument *against* the vaccine?

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by pp

Also your quote states that those children WERE NOT appropriately vaccinated. So why would that be an argument *against* the vaccine?

I think she was pretty clear.

Of the 10,650 children 3 months to 4 years of age with
reported pertussis during 1990–1996 and known vaccination
status, 54% were not age-appropriately vaccinated with DTaP." So, approx 50% of cases were in children fully vaccinated. With such low efficacy, we decided any benefit of the vaccine was not worth the risk.

How is that confusing?

[leafylady]

After dealing with many normal childhood illnesses, I decided I did not want to potentially deal with some that could be worse.

We don't have any family history of vaccine reactions.

We delayed the vax and spaced them all further apart, so we felt more comfortable with them overall. I liked the alternative vaccine schedule in Dr. Stephanie Cave's book, though we didn't follow it exactly.

Then my husband had a kidney transplant and went on immune suppressant drugs. Now I feel that it's important to his health that we all stay up to date on vaccinations.

[amah]

Thank Mamakay. You made my point exactly.

[Smithie]

The biggest thing that convinced me to try MMR and DTaP was a lack of bad reactions to the vaxes in my family. (My dh had a bad reaction to the old DTP, but that was the only known incidence of a bad reaction). When my kids had no reactions to any vaxes, I continued to get them.

Basically, if I see a real benefit to my kids and the population-in-general by giving the vax on the standard schedule, I do it. Thus, my kids didn't get Hep B because they are not at risk for Hep B, and giving the shot now won't help control Hep B. They'll never get the shot for varicella, because varicella is not a dangerous disease to a healthy child and widespread vaxing for varicella doesn't seem to be keeping vulnerable populations from getting exposed to the disease (probably because the vax is plain ineffective, but I digress).

I really strongly believe that our population is better off without measles pandemics, but I also believe that the standard schedule is too much, too soon, and that the failure of public health officials to take into account a history of vax sensitivity in families is insanely dangerous.

[KiraMisu1999]

I had a guy I cared for in nursing school who had developmental delays from measles when he was 5. I don't know the details of his illness/treatment, but his family did not have access to healthcare and his development is that of a 5 or 6 year old in a 60 year old man.

I had a labor patient a couple months ago who was deaf from getting mumps when she was 2.

These things don't happen all the time. But you do need to understand that these diseases are not just "nuisances" all the time. They can have serious consequences.

We will do DTaP, but are trying to figure out the timing still...our whole family is around horses where tetanus is endemic in the soil where they live. Pertussis outbreaks have been happening in our area. I'm just not willing to take those chances.

[JoJo4780]

I just wanted to say that I'm glad there are some people on here who appreciate the importance of vaccines; when I first came to this forum and read all the threads from the anti vaxers I was just so upset and scared of getting my son vaxed. It's been a year and I've been researching like crazy because I want to make the right choice, and like a lot of you, I decided that I really want my son protected from some of the VPDs out there. I think that there are risks not vaccinating, and if you really go back and study American history and the history of vaccines you will see what a lifesaver they have been. The history of vaccines is not without tragedy (Hep B infections from the yellow feaver vaccine, the sordid history of the smallpox vaccine, the dangers of DTP, etc), but I think that if we lived in a country (and it used to happen here) where some of these diseases are epidemics we would appreciate the availability of the vaccines. Sure they're not 100% effective; what drug is? But we're fortunate to have them available. At this point we are going to do DTaP and later on the MMR. If he is not immune to chickenpox he will get that at an older age. It can be very bad in teens and adults who don't have immunity. Thanks to all of you for your input.