I hate school right now.

[journeymom]

I'm so upset and sad for dd. She's 12, almost 13. She's in seventh grade. She's in the High Achiever track. She's failing math and science and has a D- in history.

My daughter is scatter brained. She's disorganized. She drifts off and can't focus. She probably has ADHD.

It's not fair. I had no idea about this HA program, much less that she'd been placed in it. When we learned about it, I thought, how cool, and what a surprise! I mean, I know she's smart, smarter than most in reading and writing. But she's always done poorly in math. The science programs have been nonexistent in the public schools so far.

I should note that math is not part of the HA program. So she's in pre algebra, which is where she belongs, but she's got this terrible long term substitute teacher. She says the class is out of control and noisy the entire time. Oh my gosh. I cannot imagine a worse situation for a girl who already has shaky math skills. I'm so angry with that situation right now.

So she gets dumped into the deep end with no assistance. The HA material is a grade ahead. So she's doing eighth grade science, history and English. At first she was excited, because when the teachers described what they'd be doing this year she thought, Finally! She's finally learning some interesting stuff.

She says she'd like all her classes if there wasn't SO MUCH HOMEWORK. She likes the subject matter, it's interesting, she just can't work that fast. I mean, this is insane. Who the hell put her here?? Who thought she had the skills to do this work?

She says so much of this might be really fun, except that she's totally overwhelmed.

I feel like such a failure. I hate this. I hate what school is. And this is the exact same thing that happened to me in seventh grade. I felt like I'd been dumped in the deep end with NO instructions, NO guidance, NO helping hand. EVERYONE else got what was going on, no one else missed important details that made all the difference in the world. And now, by God, it's happening all over again, only to my wonderful daughter.

Right now I think I'll have her moved out of the HA program for eighth grade. God, give this girl a freaking break.

[fhqwhgads]

Originally Posted by journeymom

I'm so upset and sad for dd. She's 12, almost 13. She's in seventh grade. She's in the High Achiever track. She's failing math and science and has a D- in history.

My daughter is scatter brained. She's disorganized. She drifts off and can't focus. She probably has ADHD.

It's not fair. I had no idea about this HA program, much less that she'd been placed in it. When we learned about it, I thought, how cool, and what a surprise! I mean, I know she's smart, smarter than most in reading and writing. But she's always done poorly in math. The science programs have been nonexistent in the public schools so far.

I should note that math is not part of the HA program. So she's in pre algebra, which is where she belongs, but she's got this terrible long term substitute teacher. She says the class is out of control and noisy the entire time. Oh my gosh. I cannot imagine a worse situation for a girl who already has shaky math skills. I'm so angry with that situation right now.

So she gets dumped into the deep end with no assistance. The HA material is a grade ahead. So she's doing eighth grade science, history and English. At first she was excited, because when the teachers described what they'd be doing this year she thought, Finally! She's finally learning some interesting stuff.

She says she'd like all her classes if there wasn't SO MUCH HOMEWORK. She likes the subject matter, it's interesting, she just can't work that fast. I mean, this is insane. Who the hell put her here?? Who thought she had the skills to do this work?

She says so much of this might be really fun, except that she's totally overwhelmed.

I feel like such a failure. I hate this. I hate what school is. And this is the exact same thing that happened to me in seventh grade. I felt like I'd been dumped in the deep end with NO instructions, NO guidance, NO helping hand. EVERYONE else got what was going on, no one else missed important details that made all the difference in the world. And now, by God, it's happening all over again, only to my wonderful daughter.

Right now I think I'll have her moved out of the HA program for eighth grade. God, give this girl a freaking break.

That sounds terribly unfair - and much like AP or honors classes in High School , except in high school, you can choose WHICH subjects you can handle at the AP level. I was in AP Art and English, but there was NO WAY I could ever have handled an AP/accelerate math class. Very, very few kids excel at both math/science and language/arts. It's generally one or the other. The fact they put her into an accelerated program without your consent is a big red flag. I hope you plan on a meeting with the principal. It seems like they've realized she's a bright girl, but rather than individualizing her education to cultivate what she's good at, and improve the skills she's less confidant in, they throw her into a "one size fits all" smart kids program.

Have you considered getting an evaluation and an IEP for her ADHD? My best friend had terrible ADD, she was brilliant in language and arts, but if it weren't for her IEP, she probably would have failed math/science/history.

[nolonger]

ds went through something similar. When my ex enrolled him in public school (against my wishes), they took one look at a lifetime homeschooler with a blue-collar or unemployed (I have no idea which) father and put him right in the vo-tech track. After one semester, during which his English class studied Homer's Odyssey, his absolute favourite bedtime story as a small child, they changed their tune and put him in all AP classes this fall. He could handle them, but the homework was killing him and the whole reson why he wanted to go to public school in the first place was to hang out wit' his homies and party so I didn't put up much protest when he told the counsellor he couldn't keep up with the work and got put in a program for kids who were struggling.

He's been very conscientious about keeping his GPA at or below 3.25 so he can stay in the program.

Yea, it's a bit of a blow to the ego but my ego has taken a lot of blows this past year and I don't really buy into the whole public school mentality or Horatio Alger mentality anyway. He's much happier now and he can catch up academically at community college in a few years when girls and popularity aren't quite so important to him.

You are NOT a failure. I could say more about what schools are and what they are actually teaching our kids, but as a failed homeschooling parent turned reluctant and completely uninvolved public school parent, I'd hate for anything I said to be misinterpreted as even more guilt piled on another parent who is doing the best they can with fewer resources than I ever had,

You already know she needs to be moved out of the HA program and that you need to do everything you can to build up her confidence so that she doesn't feel bad about it. That's more than a lot of kids get. It's more than I ever got from my parents.

Don't blame yourself, mama. It sounds like you're doing a great job with dd.

[journeymom]

Thanks for your response.

I just talked to her school's academic councilor. She clarified a lot for me.

The math class: they do separate that out from the language arts-based HA. So technically she's in the right math for her. It's just a terribly unfortunate coincidence that she has this lousy teacher, on top of this other issue. The councilor reassured me that yes, they're aware of the chaos issue in his classroom and he is leaving at the end of this quarter. They're confident in this new teacher, who isn't simply a long term sub, but is a permanent math teacher.

I agree about the science. It seems obvious to me that if she's not talented in math she shouldn't be in the HA science class. The reason I've wanted her to stick it out is because the subject matter really is interesting and she likes being with her smart friends. My thinking is that inspiring subject matter could make up for a challenging course load. And I remember how it was when I was in school. There is a world of difference between the atmosphere (i.e., fellow students) in the the excel classes and the regular classes. It's important that she continue to hang with these friends. But I'm weighing just how important that is to the pressure she's under.

The fact they put her into an accelerated program without your consent is a big red flag. I cannot believe this didn't occur to me. It really was a surprise. The councilor explained that she qualified for the HA program because of her scores on the district test. She got a 5 out of 5 in language arts. Well, great, but they should have let me know. It's also my fault. I tend to float along, oblivious to various school programs. It doesn't occur to me to ask these important questions. You make a really good point about the fact that for AP classes you're able to choose which subject you WANT to take on the extra challenge.

ADHD- this is my suspicion. She hasn't been officially diagnosed with it, so she doesn't qualify for an IEP. I don't even want to bring it up because I know it would greatly upset her. I discussed it with the councilor and she agrees, we need to be very careful about rushing to diagnose a disease/pathology/malady. I'm considering it seriously, but I'm not ready to do anything about it.

I'm calling her teachers' team leader to meet with all of them after holiday break.

Whew. I'm feeling a little better than last night. I was despairing and in tears. Dd knows her dad and I are very satisfied, pleased, really if she gets C's in class. But that doesn't help when she's getting D's and F's. We'll try, try again.

[journeymom]

You are NOT a failure. Spider, Thank you SO much for saying so!

I could say more about what schools are and what they are actually teaching our kids, but as a failed homeschooling parent turned reluctant and completely uninvolved public school parent, I'd hate for anything I said to be misinterpreted as even more guilt piled on another parent who is doing the best they can with fewer resources than I ever had,

Oh, believe me, every time these issues come up I beat myself up for not homeschooling her. I do think it could be the better choice. But I know myself, and I simply cannot provide a good education for her. Not only would I be terribly angry and frustrated all the time, but we probably wouldn't get much done. I BLAME YOU MOTHERING DOT COM MOMS FOR EDUCATING ME ABOUT HOMESCHOOLING AND UNSCHOOLING!

[Halfasianmomma]

Hi there, I was reading your post and couldn't help but respond despite the fact that the situation seems to be improving.

I spent many years tutoring kids that were just like your daughter, and I found that after a little while, they didn't even need me anymore because they got a handle on their own academic situation. If you can afford it, get a tutor, preferably someone who is an organizational wiz. It will help your daughter wrap her mind around the amount of homework she has, and pinpoint exactly where her weaknesses are, and what strategies she needs to implement in order to improve. After a few months, she might reduce the number of lessons and eventually not need them anymore. If a regular tutor once or twice a week is too expensive, perhaps you can find her a university student who's willing to help her for cheaper. Sometimes, within high schools, the grade 12 students will tutor the younger kids.

Unfortunately, these days, a lot of schools aren't really about learning, they are about about surviving the awful teachers and the crowded classrooms.

Good luck!

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma

Hi there, I was reading your post and couldn't help but respond despite the fact that the situation seems to be improving.

I spent many years tutoring kids that were just like your daughter, and I found that after a little while, they didn't even need me anymore because they got a handle on their own academic situation. If you can afford it, get a tutor, preferably someone who is an organizational wiz. It will help your daughter wrap her mind around the amount of homework she has, and pinpoint exactly where her weaknesses are, and what strategies she needs to implement in order to improve. After a few months, she might reduce the number of lessons and eventually not need them anymore. If a regular tutor once or twice a week is too expensive, perhaps you can find her a university student who's willing to help her for cheaper. Sometimes, within high schools, the grade 12 students will tutor the younger kids.

Unfortunately, these days, a lot of schools aren't really about learning, they are about about surviving the awful teachers and the crowded classrooms.

Good luck!

For now I'm putting math aside. It is what it is and we'll probably get her a tutor this summer. I found a good one.

Could you tell me more about this kind of tutoring? Are there tutors who teach just organization skills and "How To Succeed in School" skills? Or you talking about, say, a really good math tutor? Because I would feel odd about asking a math tutor to teach her how, basically, to get along in school. And she doesn't need tutoring in any of her other subjects.

Actually, it seems to me that she could use occupational therapy, or something like that. I don't really know what o.c. entails. Can you teach a person how to focus and pay attention so she doesn't miss important details like due dates and project requirements?

My next step is to actually ask her what she wants. Does she want to keep trying really hard and stay in the HA program, or would she rather have easier work in the XL program? (HA is above and beyond XL, which is, of course, more challenging than the mainstream class.)

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by noordinaryspider

I don't really buy into the whole public school mentality or Horatio Alger mentality anyway. He's much happier now and he can catch up academically at community college in a few years when girls and popularity aren't quite so important to him.

By the way, what is the Horatio Alger mentality? He was a writer, right?

[nolonger]

Originally Posted by journeymom

By the way, what is the Horatio Alger mentality? He was a writer, right?

Yea, he wrote fiction. Most of his stories had about the same plotline: social class mobility through hard work and perseverance. They were pretty stories, but don't actually have much basis in reality.

I grew up on the themes of the stories and am kind of bitter about how they were used to manipulate and exploit me and mine when our American dream became an American nightmare. My kids and I have experienced social class mobility, but it has all been downward, and my family of origin will never believe that these things can happen through bad luck rather than laziness or moral deficiency.

I value education very highly, perhaps too highly, and it has been painful but necessary for me to put my son's happiness above a bunch of As on report cards. The fact is that he is not at school to learn, much less to make good grades, and that the program that he is in now is helping him to get the things he wants or needs from his school experience. He is a very bright kid and knows how to play the game better than I ever did.

I have the grades (3.85 GPA in community college, graduated with highest honors and on the Dean's List after skipping high school to hitchhike around North America) but I certainly don't have the rewards promised in the final chapter of Mr. Alger's novels.

I'm not sure how relevant that comment ever was to your dd's situation and I apologize. I do think that you are right on with the importance of keeping her close to her smart friends. If I had made more of an effort to do that with ds, he would still be homeschooling today.

I'm so glad to see that things are improving for you.

[Halfasianmomma]

Originally Posted by journeymom

For now I'm putting math aside. It is what it is and we'll probably get her a tutor this summer. I found a good one.

This is a great idea; focus on one thing at a time. That way, she builds her confidence in one subject, and eventually will feel able to tackle them all.

Originally Posted by journeymom

Could you tell me more about this kind of tutoring? Are there tutors who teach just organization skills and "How To Succeed in School" skills? Or you talking about, say, a really good math tutor? Because I would feel odd about asking a math tutor to teach her how, basically, to get along in school. And she doesn't need tutoring in any of her other subjects.

Because tutoring is such an "unregulated" thing, it varies greatly from individual to individual. There are tutors who advertize that they specifically teach "study skills" or "organizational skills", which is what a LOT of kids need. Once in junior high, kids have 7 different subjects and often 7 different teachers who often don't catter to their specific learning style (be it visual, aural, kinetic, etc), and they get homework/projects/exams thrown at them left right and centre. On top of that, there are lots of extra curricular activites AND socialization. It's a lot of stuff to handle, especially for someone who's never learned how to manage their time.

If you find someone that you trust, and that your DD likes (real important), ask them specifically what they plan to do with her. How many hours a week will they come? What will they devise for your DD to help her plan for her work in advance, in small amounts, to prevent any last minute freakouts.

What I like to do with my students is make a list of EVERYTHING they have on their plate, and then help them schedule things according to their needs, for example:

*Do they have basketball practice on Tuesdays and Thursdays...
*Do they need down time right after school or would they prefer it later in the evening...how much downtime are we talking about (30 minutes, 1 hour)
*What are the specific subject matters that pose a problem and how many hours a week are we willing to devote to improving them...

Then we make a schedule, something visually appealing with colours, and something that isn't set in stone so when the student improves in one area, the time devotes to a topic or another can be moved or reduced (I like magnetic boards). Also, we make provisions for personal time, which is key to good studying.

Originally Posted by journeymom

Actually, it seems to me that she could use occupational therapy, or something like that. I don't really know what o.c. entails. Can you teach a person how to focus and pay attention so she doesn't miss important details like due dates and project requirements?

I'm not really certain what o.c. entails either, but any kind of resource that your DD is comfortable/happy using would help her. As for the paying attention thing, that depends on the student. I had some students who were able to sit with me for over an hour and work their butts off. I had others who just couldn't focus beyond an hour and even within that hour, I had to gently remind them what we were doing and why, and how far we'd gotten. So, for those student with an attention challenge, I only did 1 hour sessions, and only scheduled 1 hour study periods for them, with short breaks in between. Your DD may have to figure out what her particular attention span is capable of and work with it, instead of trying to FORCE herself to pay attention. As for not missing project requirements, she may need a little hand-holding from you and her tutor for a while, and it'll frustrating, but eventually, she'll develop the system that works best for her.

Originally Posted by journeymom

My next step is to actually ask her what she wants. Does she want to keep trying really hard and stay in the HA program, or would she rather have easier work in the XL program? (HA is above and beyond XL, which is, of course, more challenging than the mainstream class.)

Excellent idea. This will give her the message that as much as it is possible in this situation, she has some measure of control over her academic life.

Good luck; I hope this helps!

[mamaduck]

Journeymom - how would she feel about being moved out of the accelerated group and into a regular class? Probably not until the beginning of the next marking period -- but I imagine that could be done if you press for it.

School counselors are trained to run small groups for purpose of teaching study habits and organizational skills. They generally meet 1x a week for a marking period, and do things like clean out their backpacks together, learn to use an agenda, sort out homework folders, work on note-taking skills, and test taking skills. You should definately ask your dd's counselor if she runs a group like that, or would be willing to start a group like that.

I really think more needs to be done for 7th-8th grade students in terms of solifying study skills before moving on to highschool.

[journeymom]

Halfasianmomma, thanks, those are excellent suggestions. I've found a well recommended tutor referral group. I will ask more questions of the tutor when the time comes, like, do you have experience with children with focus issues?

Mamaduck, I'm definitly considering moving her from the HA program. But if I do, it won't be until eighth grade. We'll simply help her limp along through seventh grade in the HA program.

School counselors are trained to run small groups for purpose of teaching study habits and organizational skills. They generally meet 1x a week for a marking period, and do things like clean out their backpacks together, learn to use an agenda, sort out homework folders, work on note-taking skills, and test taking skills. You should definately ask your dd's counselor if she runs a group like that, or would be willing to start a group like that.

This is exactly what the AVID program is. Her school offers AVID as a whole class, an elective. She actually was invited to apply for it. We got there to sign her up and were told she didn't qualify anymore, her test scores were too high. :

I really think more needs to be done for 7th-8th grade students in terms of solifying study skills before moving on to highschool.

Amen, amen, amen. This is what I wish for her most. She's a smart kid who can do the work, if she knows what page she's supposed to be on, when it's due, and if she's given enough time.

[mamaduck]

I hate when big decisions are made for kids based only on standardized test-scores. Test scores do not tell the whole story, ever.

[Halfasianmomma]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Halfasianmomma, thanks, those are excellent suggestions. I've found a well recommended tutor referral group. I will ask more questions of the tutor when the time comes, like, do you have experience with children with focus issues?

journeymom, I wasn't officially "trained" to work with special needs kids, or with gifted kids (McGill had this ridiculous "6 week intensive" that was supposed to give you all the relevant info regarding these students...yeah right!). My degree focused on teaching grade 7 to 12 students, more specifically in English and moral education. When I landed in the school system, and more specifically in a Southern Baptist Saturday school dedicated to helping high risk students, I was thrown into classes filled with LD kids. So I learned a lot on my own by educating myself via the internet, and also by trying different techniques to appeal to the different types of learners: visual, aural, kinetic, etc. I later ran a private tutoring business and that also landed me in so many different family situations with a bunch of different learners. I had to adapt and learn on the go!

Also, my SS is a gifted child whose brain thinks a mile a minute, and I'm in charge of teaching him French as well as overseeing his other subject matters. It is in working with him and my other students that I developped methodology that works best for students with "quick minds". I try to remind myself that they don't have "focus issues"; they are people with minds that work so fast that we can't keep up with them. So we have to work differently, in short bursts instead of long ones, with constant colourful visual reminders strategically placed in their environment, and with consistent practice, they progress beautifully.

Don't be afraid to try different things with your daughter, and let her know that it's a learning experience for you too, so she can have some input on what she feels works best for her learning style. Also, consistency (in schedule and homework practice) is very important for quick minded students; they learn to rely on the schedule and can turn their attention to other things. If the tutoring and homework periods are irregular, it does nothing but confuse the student.

I wish you the best of luck. As I said, PM me if you need/want. Your daughter is really blessed to have a parent so invested in her success and happiness. Some kids aren't that lucky...

[fhqwhgads]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Halfasianmomma, thanks, those are excellent suggestions. I've found a well recommended tutor referral group. I will ask more questions of the tutor when the time comes, like, do you have experience with children with focus issues?

Mamaduck, I'm definitly considering moving her from the HA program. But if I do, it won't be until eighth grade. We'll simply help her limp along through seventh grade in the HA program.

School counselors are trained to run small groups for purpose of teaching study habits and organizational skills. They generally meet 1x a week for a marking period, and do things like clean out their backpacks together, learn to use an agenda, sort out homework folders, work on note-taking skills, and test taking skills. You should definately ask your dd's counselor if she runs a group like that, or would be willing to start a group like that.

This is exactly what the AVID program is. Her school offers AVID as a whole class, an elective. She actually was invited to apply for it. We got there to sign her up and were told she didn't qualify anymore, her test scores were too high. :

I really think more needs to be done for 7th-8th grade students in terms of solifying study skills before moving on to highschool.

Amen, amen, amen. This is what I wish for her most. She's a smart kid who can do the work, if she knows what page she's supposed to be on, when it's due, and if she's given enough time.

PFfffwhaaat? *tea on the monitor*. Are schools really this stupid? You mean to tell me that bright kids can't have organizational problems? Kee-ripes, they should meet every AP student I ever had a class with. 99% were brilliant kids, but man...couldn't organize a hat rack, let alone 6-10 different classes worth of notes, homework, and projects. These days, Jr. High and High School students practically need their own administrative assistant just to keep track of all their school stuff.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by fhqwhgads

PFfffwhaaat? *tea on the monitor*. Are schools really this stupid? You mean to tell me that bright kids can't have organizational problems? Kee-ripes, they should meet every AP student I ever had a class with. 99% were brilliant kids, but man...couldn't organize a hat rack, let alone 6-10 different classes worth of notes, homework, and projects. These days, Jr. High and High School students practically need their own administrative assistant just to keep track of all their school stuff.

Exactly! This really should be basic knowledge in the education world. For years now the schools have been piling on the homework, making the assignments more and more complex and challenging, adding more and more steps to the bureaucracy. Honestly, if they helped all the kids with organization skill then the whole student body would be raised up.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by journeymom

I'm so upset and sad for dd. She's 12, almost 13. She's in seventh grade. She's in the High Achiever track. She's failing math and science and has a D- in history.

My daughter is scatter brained. She's disorganized. She drifts off and can't focus. She probably has ADHD.

If she's gotten to be this old and never diagnosed then maybe you need to have her tested first before taking her out of the program at school. My oldest is in 7th and when he hit 6th grade last year he turned in to the same child you say your daughter is. It came out of nowhere. I talked to other parents in the middle school and they all had the same complaints, their kids are scatter brained, forgetful, bad at studying, using time wisely, grades fluctuating, etc. We had to really stay on top of things last year with our son and he eventually got better by the end of the school year. He would forget to bring books home to do homework, forgot to study for tests, forgot about projects until the night before they were due, didn't hear what the teachers were saying in class, the list goes on. He started mumbling "uhhhh and I don't know" a lot more often, stuff like that. The principal at his school even sent out letters at the beginning of that school year warning parents of the changes that might occur in their new middle schooler.

Have your daughter tested. I'm sure she is just going through the normal preteen/teen changes right now, especially if she hasn't had this problem ever before in school in the younger grades. At the age of 11-13 they go through so many changes emotionally and physically that we have to stay on top of them. I made charts and lists for our son to remind him of things he needed to do on a daily basis. His grades improved and things got better.